Would You Forgive The Horde?

[Phryx]

Horde main.

The Alliance should not forgive. This is WarCraft not pussyPoliticsCraft

[Rozz]

Stick to the topic, which is not discussing the behavior of other posters. You have several options available to you if you have concerns, so do not derail a thread just to vent. It is inappropriate and will be treated as spam.

On that note, remain civil. This thread is asking each user for their individual opinions. It is not necessary to start arguing about irrelevant things or throw around buzzwords. Not every statement is a battle you have to win or a challenge you need to face.

[Darth Vowrawn]

Horde main. I want several Alliance leaders to disrupt any chance of peace, and force a severe division in the Alliance causing a civil war over the next expansion, starting with these Alliance warmongers committing some horrific atrocities against Horde civilians. It's about time for the pendulum to swing the other way, and this would be the perfect time to do so: The Horde being completely ready for peace, while the Alliance (except for Anduin, Jaina, and Velen), thirsts for vengeance. It would be a good subversion of "Horde bad, Alliance good" that we have seen since Cataclysm.

[Olen86]

It is amazing how the horde can get away with atrocity after atrocity, nice neutral writers we have

[Heartbreaker]

If by the end of BfA the Alliance and the Horde make peace after a new Horde Warchief is chosen, will you (Alliance players) accept and forgive them after all Sylvanas made them do like Anduin probably would, or you would prefer to join a vengeful Tyrande and continue the war until they have lost as much as the night elves did?

The Horde would first have to feel sorry. You can't forgive someone if they don't feel sorry and don't seek forgiveness. That's the first step. Won't happen.

[Aleksej89]

I mean this is the Nth time alliance-oriented character has forgiven a horde-oriented faction.

In any medieval world the opposing race would have been genocided at the first opportunity - at the very latest the second opportunity.

I dont remember the exact number but i think alliance has greatly aided or forgiven the horde FOR NO REASON/GAIN what so ever at least 4 or 5 times since war1/2.
I would not be surprised if the accurate number is a lot higher than that.

[Darth-Piekus]

The thing is that the Horde hasn't felt how it is to be genocided. Imagine a scenario where the Horde races have lost their cities and are hiding in secret parts of Azeroth trying to built up their society while the Alliance scours the planet to find them and exterminate them completely with the help of neutral factions lead by Alliance type characters. Only then I think would the Horde start to change. Perhaps also posters like Mehrunes, Tromage who created another account just for that and others would also realise that the Horde should not behave like they want. Perhaps some people are playing the wrong game and should try instead the Orcs of Warhammer.

Infracted.

[Mehrunes]

The thing is that the Horde hasn't felt how it is to be genocided. Imagine a scenario where the Horde races have lost their cities and are hiding in secret parts of Azeroth trying to built up their society while the Alliance scours the planet to find them and exterminate them completely with the help of neutral factions lead by Alliance type characters. Only then I think would the Horde start to change. Perhaps also posters like Mehrunes, Tromage who created another account just for that and others would also realise that the Horde should not behave like they want. Perhaps some people are playing the wrong game and should try instead the Orcs of Warhammer.

So Blood Elves, Forsaken and the Darkspear aren't Horde anymore? And for your analogy to work, what are the neutral factions helping the Horde "scouring the planet to find the Alliance"? Also, what does your remark have anything to do with anything what I said?

[mickybrighteyes]

The thing is that the Horde hasn't felt how it is to be genocided.

Pretty sure that's the origin story on basically all the horde races....

Tauren pushed to the brink by Centaur

Dark Spear nearly wiped out by Admiral Proudmoore.

Goblins scuttled at sea by SI:7.

Orcs rounded up in camps and hunted to be killed when they escaped.

Forsaken... literally all died to be here.

Blood Elves had their nation sacked, their numbers thinned... survived only to have their numbers thinned out again because an asshat hated them...

edit:

i feel a lot of people jhust plain forget that lore happens.

[Eggroll]

In Mehrunes' defense, he is still better than those crazy Tyrande fanboys who are convinced that the night elves are the most abused race in the history of Warcraft and that it is all the fault of their useless and treacherous allies if they are in a weak position.

Why no. It's the fault of the devs who like to use nelves as punching bags.

Not in the history of Warcraft but in the history of WoW for sure. Among the playable races.

- - - Updated - - -

Doesn't change the fact they began to since then. Except Baine, because he never stopped doing that since Cataclysm.

Doesn't change the fact that they all participated in the genocides and will, yet again, come off scott-free.

[Varodoc]

Please don't tell me you think Void Elves have gotten worse from the writers.

No, it's the fault of writers who either hate them, are too damned lazy to read their backstory, or use them to show the "might" of the savages over and over.

I don't pretend void elves have gotten worse from the writers than night elves. However I find certain night elf fanboys annoying. Some of them just shift the blame from Sylvanas to Anduin. I am not Anduin fanboy, but even I realize that not overexting by helping Tyrande was the right choice.

Then again, I made that post after I had a kind of heated debate with a night elf fanboy who insisted that the plight that is affecting this race is mostly due to Anduin's "selfishness". I certainly did not mean to convey the idea that ALL night elf fanboys are like that, and I suppose every fandom has a few crazy individuals.

[mickybrighteyes]

Horde main. I want several Alliance leaders to disrupt any chance of peace, and force a severe division in the Alliance causing a civil war over the next expansion,

They would just be deemed justified in their actions... largely ignored in the setting and everything else would continue on as though those characters never did anything...

I mean that's been the story so far.

[Mehrunes]

Doesn't change the fact that they all participated in the genocides and will, yet again, come off scott-free.

Which goes beyond the scopes of your initial complaint.

[Scottyjscizzle]

As a kaldorei, if we had the power if rage against both alliance and horde. Alliance for utterly failing us, and horde for well ..being horde.

[Mehrunes]

As a kaldorei, if we had the power if rage against both alliance and horde. Alliance for utterly failing us, and horde for well ..being horde.

I mean, Tyrande is the one who proposed sending their armies to Silithus. And even already prepared them for that before the actual meeting on the issue.

[Darth Vowrawn]

They would just be deemed justified in their actions... largely ignored in the setting and everything else would continue on as though those characters never did anything...

I mean that's been the story so far.

Imagine if it wasn't whitewashed. If Tyrande slaughtering an entire Orcish village and sacrificing the captured innocents to Elune, or Alleria completely corrupting the Sunwell with a Void-based superweapon, or Genn allying with an anti-Undead group like the Scarlet Crusade to make war on the innocent survivors of the Forsaken, is played completely straight and repulsive. And none of it being downplayed for how vile, hypocritical, warmongering, and insane it would be.

It would be highly entertaining if that were to happen, due to the hypocrisy of Alliance players being outraged when Sylvanas or Garrosh did something horrific, to turn around and justify it when done by Alliance leaders.

[allawyn]

Pretty sure that's the origin story on basically all the horde races....

Tauren pushed to the brink by Centaur

Dark Spear nearly wiped out by Admiral Proudmoore.

Goblins scuttled at sea by SI:7.

Orcs rounded up in camps and hunted to be killed when they escaped.

Forsaken... literally all died to be here.

Blood Elves had their nation sacked, their numbers thinned... survived only to have their numbers thinned out again because an asshat hated them...

edit:

i feel a lot of people jhust plain forget that lore happens.

People seem to forget that, for example, the difference between "lilly white" Jaina and "arch villain" Sylvanas is only a matter of degree. If Thrall hadn't thwarted her attempts, should would be exactly where Sylvanas is right now.

[MasterMirror]

lol Tyrande will have a bad time when she will know that Elune was behind Sylvanas' acts.
There's nothing to forgive.

[Eggroll]

I mean, Tyrande is the one who proposed sending their armies to Silithus. And even already prepared them for that before the actual meeting on the issue.

Yeah, as an ally of "the Alliance" it is ofc unusual to contribute to the common cause...

Turned out, the Kaldorei are only "allies" of the Alliance if they go and die for them.

- - - Updated - - -

lol Tyrande will have a bad time when she will know that Elune was behind Sylvanas' acts.
There's nothing to forgive.

Where do you get that from?

[Aresk]

People seem to forget that, for example, the difference between "lilly white" Jaina and "arch villain" Sylvanas is only a matter of degree. If Thrall hadn't thwarted her attempts, should would be exactly where Sylvanas is right now.

What incident of Jaina's are you talking about that Thrall averted?

Jaina's worse action to my recollection was the Purge of Dalaran, which caused the imprisonment and death of several Sunreavers, after a faction of them broke neutrality to smuggle weapons for the Horde. She almost drowned Orgrimmar but was pulled back from that course by Kalec. She was a supporter of the Horde from Classic through the start of Cataclysm (even when the Horde stopped supporting some of its own people), attacked them in Mists of Pandaria, was almost entirely absent the following two expansions, and then supported an attack on Lordaeron, assault on Dazar'alor, and infiltration of Orgrimmar to free a Horde prisoner. It sounds like I may be forgetting something based on your post, and if so, I'm sorry about that.

Sylvanas, conversely, had a retconned, unspecified amount of involvement in a sneak attack on both Horde and Alliance at the Wrathgate (this is probably my second least favorite revision of Warcraft's history that Blizzard has made), conquered Gilneas (while disobeying her Warchief in the weapons used), ordered the execution of her own council members when they attempted to follow her instructions to retreat from the field, burned a tree that was home to multiple civilian settlements, and attempted to strip someone of their free will in an effort to use them in a sneak attack on her enemies.

The main difference I see in Jaina and Sylvanas (beyond the one making a last-minute decision not to destroy a capital while the other made a last-minute decision to destroy it) is the remorse they feel. Both are willing to accept the consequences of their actions, but Jaina seems to be the only one of the two that care about those she's harmed.