killing rag in one week explained and why it wont be difficult for most guilds

[roninwookie]

There's a few more guilds who downed Ragnaros by now.

Is there a website that keeps track because I will be super interested in AQ40 as well.

[Alaenore]

These guys are idiots. We should stop paying them attention. This isnt retail, it is Classic. Retail is about reaching max level in a week and doing the same stupid raid everyweek till you get a burnout.
Classic is about leveling, challenge, hard quests, dungeons, grouping, social, WPVP, professions, making enough gold to afford your spells, getting your mount, and all. These people are like super religious people who get married at the age of 16 and have 4 babies 3 years later thinking they finished life already. Ignore these morons.

Ah ! But Classic is about running he same pointless fetch quests again and again with only the mob changing, then farming your mats again and again to run the same raid till you get a burnout!
Retail is about levelling your Heart of Azeroth, meeting friends to clear the highest M+ you can, the story and cinematics, grouping for the different world quests requiring a group, enabling Warmode to have some PVP action, running the different professions quests to get your tool of the trade or mounts, making enough gold to afford your Brutosaur, doing Warfronts to challenge the other faction on the old continents, running Islands expeditions in different settings every week and different quests, experiencing the story (expanded every patches!), unlocking flying, ...

See what bias can do?

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Is there a website that keeps track because I will be super interested in AQ40 as well.

Warcraftlogs has a classic section so you'll probably be able to track more there in a few days : https://classic.warcraftlogs.com/
However there's also Progress who cleared Ragnaros so it makes 3, maybe more if other guilds didn't log.

[roninwookie]

These guys are idiots. We should stop paying them attention. This isnt retail, it is Classic. Retail is about reaching max level in a week and doing the same stupid raid everyweek till you get a burnout.
Classic is about leveling, challenge, hard quests, dungeons, grouping, social, WPVP, professions, making enough gold to afford your spells, getting your mount, and all. These people are like super religious people who get married at the age of 16 and have 4 babies 3 years later thinking they finished life already. Ignore these morons.

Then ignore these threads. There are tolls that will complain about THIS or THAT just to get a reaction, but there are others who have questions or gripes about Classic just as there have been those people who have gripes about Retail. Play what you wanna play, ignore these threads, and stop insulting people with a different opinion than you.

[Brenugae]

These guys are idiots. We should stop paying them attention. This isnt retail, it is Classic. Retail is about reaching max level in a week and doing the same stupid raid everyweek till you get a burnout.
Classic is about leveling, challenge, hard quests, dungeons, grouping, social, WPVP, professions, making enough gold to afford your spells, getting your mount, and all. These people are like super religious people who get married at the age of 16 and have 4 babies 3 years later thinking they finished life already. Ignore these morons.

That's funny, because I consider the opposite side to that coin to be religious. You keep fucking shoving the idea that 'Vanilla was so hard' into these gaps and when those gaps are filled as we get more knowledge and are shown that vanilla was in fact not as hard as we all remember, you keep moving the goalpost. I remember vanilla being difficult too, but running through it in Classic, it's really not.

Also, I am in fact taking my time leveling, making friends and whatnot along the way and it's been fun having more interaction with people while I rediscover the base game, that being said, fuck you for telling people to play how you think they should play.

[Phryx]

Even if killing Rag turns out to be easy for the majority (which it won't be, judging by the amount of mages that don't even know they have a remove curse ability), the whole raid drops what, 20-25 random pieces of loot a run, to be split among 40 people? It's not like everyone is gonna be fully geared in a month. Still plenty of reason to run dungeons, etc.

MC with full lvl 60 roaster in dungeon gear, which is not that hard to get to be honest, will be a joke. Many guilds will do splits for more loot.

[sibut]

This is new and fascinating information that definitely needed its own thread.

[lummiuster]

That's funny, because I consider the opposite side to that coin to be religious. You keep fucking shoving the idea that 'Vanilla was so hard' into these gaps and when those gaps are filled as we get more knowledge and are shown that vanilla was in fact not as hard as we all remember, you keep moving the goalpost. I remember vanilla being difficult too, but running through it in Classic, it's really not.

Also, I am in fact taking my time leveling, making friends and whatnot along the way and it's been fun having more interaction with people while I rediscover the base game, that being said, fuck you for telling people to play how you think they should play.

Go make a character in classic and in retail. Go to Barren and get to level 20. See how long it takes. Try pulling 3 mobs at a time in both games. Run a dungeon. You'll see which game is harder. You're so lost in your mind man, in every game there are weirdos who will find a different way to play a game. Some dudes finishing zelda ocarina of time in 10minutes. Of course we should ignore these people. Whats wrong with you? Are like a beaten wife or what

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Ah ! But Classic is about running he same pointless fetch quests again and again with only the mob changing, then farming your mats again and again to run the same raid till you get a burnout!
Retail is about levelling your Heart of Azeroth, meeting friends to clear the highest M+ you can, the story and cinematics, grouping for the different world quests requiring a group, enabling Warmode to have some PVP action, running the different professions quests to get your tool of the trade or mounts, making enough gold to afford your Brutosaur, doing Warfronts to challenge the other faction on the old continents, running Islands expeditions in different settings every week and different quests, experiencing the story (expanded every patches!), unlocking flying, ...

See what bias can do?

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Warcraftlogs has a classic section so you'll probably be able to track more there in a few days : https://classic.warcraftlogs.com/
However there's also Progress who cleared Ragnaros so it makes 3, maybe more if other guilds didn't log.

No, it just mean you havent played classic and have no clue what you're talking about.

[Oneirophobia]

Why is time a factor? if i need to kill a boar everyday for 1 month to get something, it suddenly is hard? thats known as grind in my books.

It appears he’s trying to coin the term “time difficulty” in order to rhetoric his way around the term “tedious”.

I’m currently doing the Undersea Ursurper achievement in retail. Boy oh boy, is that time difficult.

[roninwookie]

It appears he’s trying to coin the term “time difficulty” in order to rhetoric his way around the term “tedious”.

I’m currently doing the Undersea Ursurper achievement in retail. Boy oh boy, is that time difficult.

hahaha. This is great.

[Alaenore]

No, it just mean you havent played classic and have no clue what you're talking about.

Yep, never played Classic nor Vanilla.
https://i.imgur.com/knCZ7HU.png

[Unholyground]

I think it is pretty cool they managed it so quickly honestly.

[Kyphael]

"So easy, even Apes can do it."

[dacoolist]

Yep, never played Classic nor Vanilla.
https://i.imgur.com/knCZ7HU.png

It took me 4 years to afford a copy of the original collectors. I got my achieves in early 2009 around my bday - Wrath of the LEECH KANG.. so I also have those achieves, and anyone with like 5000U$D can as well right meow.

You have to post your armory so we can scrub the feats/legacy to see if you played classic sir

[roninwookie]

I think it is pretty cool they managed it so quickly honestly.

Agreed. Even I thought it would take A LITTLE longer seeing as how I couldn't think it could be done without resist gear. I was wrong. It's awesome that they did it with little to no resist gear and some players below level 60. It really shows the difference in Blizzard's raid capability from 2004 to now.

[dacoolist]

https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/ch...gth/promotions

as an example

[Xjev]

Its patch 1.12, very late patch of classic, there had been many fixes applied compared to early days.

[Taeldorian]

I dont want to disagree if you compare them by using current measurements. As I said, time changed. I wouldve liked it if this discussion never came up. It is what it is.

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The variety of different rotations depending on different situations really made it more complex in General. Maybe not in raiding. Just my opinion on warrios. You are right with mages though.

You switch up 2-3 buttons and generating rage is slow enough that you have more than enough time to think about what you’re going to do. It’s really not complex.

I do like things like stance dancing and seals/auras, definitely adds a layer of depth to each spec even if it’s small but in no way is this complex.

[Zentail]

My 700-800$ computer build ran WoW at 40-60fps fine in 2005 and it wasn't nearly a high end build. I don't know what kind of computer you played with if it had 4 fps.

I mean, I had an expensive computer too. Doesn’t mean everyone did. Though mine was a bit more expensive than yours. Doesn’t change my post. Just because I spend money doesn’t mean everyone does. It also doesn’t change that world first guilds testifies about the difficulty of raids because of hardware back then vs today. Server first guild on my server had constant random disconnects and internet outages on computers that also ran low FPS. Nihilum (or w/e the guild was) and guilds like Method have come out on several occasions and said the case was the same for them.

[Autoriot]

Classic: Using level 45-55 gear to kill a level 60 boss.

Retail: Using ilvl 430 gear to kill a boss that drops ilvl 415 gear.

Of course retail raids need to be tougher. Week by week you can increase your gear so much thanks mainly, to Titanforging. This combined with multiple raid difficulties, endless M+ running, daily quests, etc leads to a ton of gear upgrades per week. Fights are more interesting overall in retail, but they are almost to the point now where it is crazy complicated at the start with 10 different mechanics and phases..and a month later you can ignore half of the mechanics/or push through phases completely because you over gear it so much (except maybe mythic difficulty). Also remember that week 1 in a new retail raid, good raiders can clear heroic raids that same week using all of 1 armor type (so hardly any class diversity) and with a majority of the raid being under geared alts that are feeding their gear to mains. Not vastly different then week 1 clearing of MC (and will be the case with BWL and so on when they are released) with a raid less than 40 with a majority under geared.


In vanilla, raids were baseline easy because the real struggle was getting 40 decently geared that could stay connected to the game (at least for MC and BWL) and could raid for multiple hours straight (and sometimes multiple nights).

Burning crusade stepped up raiding difficulty quite a bit, but lessened the amount of raiders needed to 25.

Wrath introduced multiple sizes and difficulties, also introduced a raid wide nerf system overtime to make fights more doable for those struggling.

In retail now, that raid wide nerf is now accomplished by handing out tons of gear and sometimes increasing the power of it by huge amounts.


Yes, overall retail has more buttons and more to do (in a dps rotation) and more places where you can stand out from others, but you can't argue that Retail is "harder" than Classic in leveling, base dungeon running, and gearing. The only thing retail has that is tougher is top end M+ and Mythic raiding, which a lot of people don't even do.

Overall I think BC has it the best. Tough raids (but 1 difficulty only), slow gearing speed, tough leveling, tough dungeons (especially heroic mode), but more talents and spec that are viable.

[jeepguy16]

2004: 4 FPS and 2000ms latency.
2019: 60(+) FPS and 31 latency.

This 1000%. As much as I would have replied with something to the effect of (it was a different time, people know more now, most people are simply better at the game now, etc). The lag and performance of most people's PCs during raids make a HUGE difference.

I had built a pretty decent PC at the time, and had a decent connection (for my area). Yet, no matter what my settings were dropped to, I remember getting at best around 20-25 FPS during raids, and that dropped to 15 or less during most fights. I remember some fights like Rag where I was in the single digits. I also don't remember my latency ever being below 100 for most of vanilla, and remember 200-500 being pretty normal.