LFG addon is not a bad idea.

[Wingspan]

I mean I can't do any more walls of text cos sleep is important too. I'm not conceding the point here because I think this is the important bit - our opinions aren't compatible. There is just no way to have QOL features on a server with people who don't want them because it's shit for everyone involved (admittedly, significantly less so for the people who want QOL features and have as a result got what they wanted with absolutely no downsides).

Regardless, presenting it as a dichotomy is very MMOC. Just having separate servers completely removes the need to even have this argument, and that's probably a great solution.

I meant what I said when I made the options claim... you made a fair (a bit skewed but reasonable enough) counter-point with “option to not have it”, so I took the logical step of separation.

I think it would be great. And depending on how Classic unfolds, it’s possibly even likely.

[hoshisabi]

No, it wouldnt work like this on vanilla client, it would have even more automation. Currently its just a chat filter that picks up certain lfg messges

That's what the original LFG tool was in vanilla. I remember trying to use it.

I don't remember if it had auto-invite, but I do remember that it wasn't THAT much work to form a group using it. The only problem with it was that back in Vanilla a lot less people used Add-ons, that's the only reason that it didn't get more universally used.

The problem isn't the API, it was the collective knowledge about how to use addons and how to play in general.

THAT cat is out of the bag. What is preventing the Classic experience from being pure vanilla isn't anything that can be controlled, it's a userbase filled with knowledge that WON'T go away (thus APES totally destroying the current raids) and other online resources (add on providers, WoWHead vs Thottbot and even the fact that thottbot wasn't universally used back then either.)

[PenguinChan]

I'm sure a more classic-era LFG tool will be released after low levels die out, so it helps automate finding people of similar level and wants but retaining the travel and experience of meeting up and properly entering a dungeon. Until then, do the usual guilds and channel spam. Blizzard will want to advocate all levels of content, and (hopefully) not make the same mistake of advocating end-game only.

[sephrinx]

Find a guild. Make friends.

Problem solved.

/r/threadkillers

Seriously though. Talk to people, travel, explore, go out into the WORLD and experience it.

[Kaver]

Let's say you're right, and you're not ment to spam chat to find a group.

Where does that leave you when it comes to meeting new people and making new friends in game? If you're not going to group with anyone not already in your clique, you're never going to get to meet anyone new. That would mean no new people for your guild, because you'd never get the chance to get to know people. No new people for your friends list. As people drop out of the game, you'd gradually have a smaller and smaller pool of players you'd be playing with.

What you're advocating would create a very insular version of the game, where no one bothers to talk to anyone outside of their own little bubble. Is that what you'd want the game to look like? Because it would be the logical outcome of a stance like yours.

You're meant to socially interact with people while leveling. You're meant to communicate in other scenarios than just finding a group. You're meant to build up a nice friend list while travelling through the world. You're meant to join a nice guild and do activities with them. You don't need Dungeons to be social.

I never said you shouldn't group up with people you don't know in general. While leveling you should of course group up with people you meet on your way to do quests. However, when it comes to dungeon, then you should not be able to conveniently rely on random players to make a group.

When you need a group for a dungeon you should contact people from your friend list or guild. If you don't have many people on your friend list or don't know anybody in your guild, it means you haven't been interacting socially with other people while leveling.

A MMORPG like Classic need social interaction OUTSIDE of dungeons. If people are able to easily group up with random people via a tool and then only communicate in relation to dungeon tactics, then they have no need to communicate outside of dungeons. They have no need to make social bonds and the community will be reduced.

- - - Updated - - -

Oh, then I guess they should just turn off Trade chat and all other global channels then. Do you work for blizzard? No. Stop speaking for them.

Continuing to spout bullshit doesn't make you right.

You cannot turn off chat because it is the main communication tool in the game. And the purpose of the chat is not to make groups for dungeons with random people.

On the other hand, the ONLY purpose of a LFG tool IS to make groups with random people. That's the main idea of a LFG tool. To make it easy to find completely random people for your group.

Therefore, there is a HUGE difference between the general chat of the game and a tool made SPECIFICALLY for grouping up with random people.

YOU'RE NOT MEANT TO GROUP UP WITH RANDOM PEOPLE TO DO A DUNGEON.

AND YOU'RE NOT MEANT TO GROUP UP WITH RANDOM PEOPLE TO DO A RAID.

AND YOU'RE NOT MEANT TO GROUP UP WITH RANDOM PEOPLE TO DO A PREMADE BATTLE GROUND.

YOU'RE MEANT TO TRAVEL THROUGH THE AMAZING WORLD OF AZEROTH AND MEET PEOPLE WHILE LEVELING. THEN YOU CAN LATER INVITE THOSE PEOPLE YOU HAVE MET THROUGH YOUR TRAVELS TO YOUR GROUP + GUILD MEMBERS.

IF YOU DIDN'T MEET ANY PEOPLE WHILE LEVELING AND HAVE ADDED NO PLAYERS TO YOUR FRIEND LIST THEN THAT IS YOUR PROBLEM. THE GAME SHOULD NOT FIX THAT FOR YOU BY ADDING A CONVENIENT TOOL FOR YOU TO FIND RANDOM PEOPLE BECAUSE YOU WEREN'T ABLE TO SOCIALLY INTERACT WITH OTHER PLAYERS WHILE LEVELING THROUGH THE WORLD.

THERE ARE OTHER PLAYERS ALL OVER THE PLACE IN EVERY ZONE, SO YOU HAVE EVERY POSSIBILITY TO TALK WITH THEM WHILE LEVELING.

IF YOU CHOOSE NOT TO, THEN THAT IS YOUR PROBLEM.

sorry for caps

- - - Updated - - -

Outside of family or real life friends, EVERYONE is a random player until you do something with them... like maybe, a dungeon (as an example).

Note. When I say "a random player" I mean someone you have never chatted with before and who is not on either your friend list or in your guild.

You can meet people while leveling. You can meet people while traveling through the world. You can meet people in your guild.

You don't need dungeons to meet people.

Dungeons should be an activity you do with the people you meet while travelling through the world.

Raids should be an activity you do with people you meet while travelling through the world.

You should not rely on random people everytime you do an activity in the game. If you do then strangers will always be strangers and the community will not exist.

The reason people want a LFG tool is:

1) EASILY AND CONVENIENTLY to group up with completely random people.

2) Go into the dungeon and complete it with only the communication required to complete it.

3) Go your seperate ways a never speak again. Because the next time you need a group you can just use LFG to find 4 other completely random people who you also are not going to make any social interaction with other than maybe discussing dungeon tactics.

The behavior described in point 1), 2) and 3) is very bad for a MMORPG like Classic that lives based on it community.

[SirCowdog]

However, when it comes to dungeon, then you should not be able to conveniently rely on random players to make a group.

Why the hell not? Who made you the sole arbiter of how people should or should not be able to from groups?

Literally everything you've posted is just your own person view of how the game should be, not how it actually is.

When you need a group for a dungeon you should contact people from your friend list or guild. If you don't have many people on your friend list or don't know anybody in your guild, it means you haven't been interacting socially with other people while leveling.

What a load of garbage. As I already pointed out, sometimes your guild or friends aren't on. Or are busy with something else. Or just want to solo.

All you're doing is trying to impose a view of the game that has no basis in fact. You're like a person who's read a book on something, but never actually seen or done it in reality, and thinks they're somehow an authority.

You just don't like that people play the game differently than you do, but can't stand to admit it.

A MMORPG like Classic need social interaction OUTSIDE of dungeons. If people are able to easily group up with random people via a tool and then only communicate in relation to dungeon tactics, then they have no need to communicate outside of dungeons. They have no need to make social bonds and the community will be reduced.

Literally every time you post you make yourself look worse.

Do you not understand that people might find dungeons fun, and make friends while doing them? Who the hell says they ever have to do anything else?

Once again, all you're doing is making a giant pile of assumptions, and spouting them as though they're facts. Maybe you like to play the way you describe. Maybe it's even worked for you. But that does NOT mean everything and everyone works that way.

[B]YOU'RE NOT MEANT TO GROUP UP WITH RANDOM PEOPLE TO DO A DUNGEON.

Citation needed! You don't get to tell other people how to play.

AND YOU'RE NOT MEANT TO GROUP UP WITH RANDOM PEOPLE TO DO A RAID.

Says WHO!? The game doesn't stop anyone from doing it.

AND YOU'RE NOT MEANT TO GROUP UP WITH RANDOM PEOPLE TO DO A PREMADE BATTLE GROUND.

Ok, now you're just grasping at straws. I'm not even going to bother with the rest of your post, because you're just repeating the same nonsense over and over.

[Kaver]

Why the hell not? Who made you the sole arbiter of how people should or should not be able to from groups?

Literally everything you've posted is just your own person view of how the game should be, not how it actually is.




What a load of garbage. As I already pointed out, sometimes your guild or friends aren't on. Or are busy with something else. Or just want to solo.

All you're doing is trying to impose a view of the game that has no basis in fact. You're like a person who's read a book on something, but never actually seen or done it in reality, and thinks they're somehow an authority.

You just don't like that people play the game differently than you do, but can't stand to admit it.



Literally every time you post you make yourself look worse.

Do you not understand that people might find dungeons fun, and make friends while doing them? Who the hell says they ever have to do anything else?

Once again, all you're doing is making a giant pile of assumptions, and spouting them as though they're facts. Maybe you like to play the way you describe. Maybe it's even worked for you. But that does NOT mean everything and everyone works that way.



Citation needed! You don't get to tell other people how to play.




Says WHO!? The game doesn't stop anyone from doing it.




Ok, now you're just grasping at straws. I'm not even going to bother with the rest of your post, because you're just repeating the same nonsense over and over.

It's seems like you're very confused in relation to the design intentions of Classic WoW. And you get startling aggressive when people don't share your opinions. Communication doesn't seem to be one of your strong traits so it's doesn't surprise me that you advertise for a tool that allow you to play dungeons without any friends.

It's not MY opinions and MY views. It's how Blizzard have DESIGNED the game. You're obviously too young to understand the design philosophies of the original Vanilla created in 2004.

When you ask: "Says WHO!"... then the answer is simple.. Blizzard say. It's how they designed the game.

Classic is designed around social dynamics and community. Therefore it is key in the game that people communicate with each other on a social level and build social bonds. If the only communication you do, is talking tactics inside a dungeon then you're not participating on the community of Classic. This is harmful to the game.

It is therefore completely logical that Blizzard are not going to add a tool which makes it easier to do the content of the game without building social bonds.

If you don't have enough friends on your list to make a group, then you need to go out into the world and add more players to your list.

Also, if you make friends while doing dungeons then you don't need a LFG tool. Because you can just ask those friends you made in the last dungeon to do another.

Let's be fair. People want a LFG tool so they can do dungeons without having to participate in the Community of Classic. They want a tool that allow them to get gear with minimum social interaction. They want to use LFG EVERYTIME they make/join a group so they never have to rely on friends or guildies. They treat Classic as a Single player game. And they treat other players like NPCs.

Classic is not CS GO. Classic is not League of Legends. Classic is not fortnite. And Classic is not Retail WoW.

You want to do dungeons in Classic? Then you have to participate in the community. That's how the game was and is designed.

Simple. I hope you enjoyed the free lesson

[SirCowdog]

It's seems like you're very confused in relation to the design intentions of Classic WoW.

It's not MY opinions and MY views. It's how Blizzard have DESIGNED the game. You're obviously too young to understand the design philosophies of the original Vanilla created in 2004.

Ahahahah! Oh man. Too young. Sorry chief, I'm 43 and I've been playing videogames since Missile Command on the Atari 2600. The fact that you tried to pull this tactic of claiming something about me that you have no actual info on is perfectly in line with your entire style of arguing. You like to claim things that you don't actually know because it sounds good to you, not because it has any basis in fact.

When you ask: "Says WHO!"... then the answer is simple.. Blizzard say. It's how they designed the game.

Then you won't have any problem quoting or linking me something official from Blizzard that backs up what you say. And no, I don't mean just copy/pasting the part about LFG. I want something that proves what YOU have claimed about dungeons, battlegrounds, leveling, and all the other bullshit you've been spouting.

Go ahead, I'll wait.

[Kaver]

Ahahahah! Oh man. Too young. Sorry chief, I'm 43 and I've been playing videogames since Missile Command on the Atari 2600. The fact that you tried to pull this tactic of claiming something about me that you have no actual info on is perfectly in line with your entire style of arguing. You like to claim things that you don't actually know because it sounds good to you, not because it has any basis in fact.





Then you won't have any problem quoting or linking me something official from Blizzard that backs up what you say. And no, I don't mean just copy/pasting the part about LFG. I want something that proves what YOU have claimed about dungeons, battlegrounds, leveling, and all the other bullshit you've been spouting.

Go ahead, I'll wait.

I estimated your age based on your behavior when communicating with other people. It seem very immature to make aggressive attacks on other people just because they don't share your opinion. The fact that you're 43 is.... well…. I'm not sure what to say.

Community and social dynamics is what Vanilla/Classic was/is designed around. Everybody knows that. Blizzard have said it many times. I don't have to find quotes to prove that.

The whole topic is just so very simple:

1) A LFG tool is made to conveniently CONVENIENTLY find random people you don't know, to group up with for dungeons.

2) This tool therefore allows you to CONVENIENTLY do dungeons without having to communicate with other people outside of dungeons.

3) You can also do the this with chat but this is not CONVENIENT and the difference between finding groups in chat and a LFG tool, is that the LFG tool is something that has to be added to the game with only one purpose while the chat is something that is already in the game and is a essential part of the core game.

… 43 years old... damn.. Sad story of the day.

[gaymer77]

Little hypocrisy within the WoW Classic community ; "Disable LFG, but allow Quest helper" which these are on the same tier. They both help you with levelling.

Seeing how Quest Helper didn't form groups for you and all it did was take data you could have obtained from an outside website (thottbot.com, wow.allakhazam.com, wowwiki.com, etc) and shows you on the map where those items/mobs would generally be. Quest Helper was published DURING VANILLA so it is literally part of the vanilla experience. LFG was added much much after vanilla. That is the reason why people don't want to see a LFG tool added to the game. Also hate to break this to you but dungeons are a horrible way to level your character unless you have every single quest for that particular dungeon and even then it only needs to be ran ONCE. Normal quests and even simply grinding mobs is a faster way to lvl 60 than doing dungeons. But even with that in mind, people still found groups for dungeons under 60 during vanilla. Ulda is ran quite frequently because of the enchanting trainer for one tier of enchanting is ONLY in there (druids & rogues could stealth to her but other classes had to get a group for it if they wanted to learn new enchanting skills). Horde frequently ran RFC, RFK, RFD, WC, SM, and SFK frequently because they were in their zones. Alliance ran Stockades, Ulda, BFD, Gnomer, ST, and DM frequently at low levels because they were in their zones.

[SirCowdog]

I estimated your age based on your behavior when communicating with other people. It seem very immature to make aggressive attacks on other people just because they don't share your opinion. The fact that you're 43 is.... well…. I'm not sure what to say.

Community and social dynamics is what Vanilla/Classic was/is designed around. Everybody knows that. Blizzard have said it many times. I don't have to find quotes to prove that.

The whole topic is just so very simple:

1) A LFG tool is made to conveniently CONVENIENTLY find random people you don't know, to group up with for dungeons.

2) This tool therefore allows you to CONVENIENTLY do dungeons without having to communicate with other people outside of dungeons.

3) You can also do the this with chat but this is not CONVENIENT and the difference between finding groups in chat and a LFG tool, is that the LFG tool is something that has to be added to the game with only one purpose while the chat is something that is already in the game and is a essential part of the core game.

… 43 years old... damn.. Sad story of the day.

Yeah, that's about what I thought.

You don't have anything, so you go back to repeating the same crap with no foundation, no proof, no backup. Nothing. And you follow up with insults while trying to call me out for being immature. Good game, bro. Real classy.

You want to know why I respond to you this way? Because I don't do this with everyone. I write with this tone because you've done nothing but spout nonsense, without any concession or any budging on your stance when faced with facts. All you're doing is making assumption after assumption after assumption as though it was written in stone. And worse, you think EVERYONE should think and act exactly how you do.


That gets mocked with every single ounce of sarcasm and scorn that I can muster without actually getting infracted.



The idea that there's only one "right" way to play WoW is a joke. Blizzard wholeheartedly approved of the guy who leveled entirely in MoP, without choosing a faction, by doing nothing but picking herbs. Blizzard has often bent the rules for "clever use of game mechanics". There's no way you can possibly prove that your way is "correct"

The idea that people must group in the way YOU believe they should, and consume the content in the social dynamic that YOU think is correct is 100% your own mistaken idea that you're attempting to impose on everyone as "right". You're not right. You just want so badly to be right that you can't see any other point of view.

Keep making an ass out of yourself. I'm done. Mods: Official request for closing of the thread. It's going nowhere.

[Vorkreist]

/r/threadkillers

Seriously though. Talk to people, travel, explore, go out into the WORLD and experience it.

No man. I just can't do that. The only way to play the game is to have a button to push that does everything for you. Its more progressive.
I mean why do you care? Just don't use it 4Head. It will just fuck up the entire game by becoming something mandatory. It hurts nobody just the entire game.
I'm a sad lazy anti social retailer and I need qol in everything to think breathe play etc.

[Kaver]

Yeah, that's about what I thought.

You don't have anything, so you go back to repeating the same crap with no foundation, no proof, no backup. Nothing. And you follow up with insults while trying to call me out for being immature. Good game, bro. Real classy.

You want to know why I respond to you this way? Because I don't do this with everyone. I write with this tone because you've done nothing but spout nonsense, without any concession or any budging on your stance when faced with facts. All you're doing is making assumption after assumption after assumption as though it was written in stone. And worse, you think EVERYONE should think and act exactly how you do.


That gets mocked with every single ounce of sarcasm and scorn that I can muster without actually getting infracted.



The idea that there's only one "right" way to play WoW is a joke, much less that your way is the only one. Blizzard wholeheartedly approved of the guy who leveled entirely in MoP, without choosing a faction, by doing nothing but picking herbs. Blizzard has often bent the rules for "clever use of game mechanics".

The idea that people must group in the way YOU believe they should, and consume the content in the social dynamic that YOU think is correct is 100% your own mistaken idea that you're attempting to impose on everyone as "right". You're not right. You just want so badly to be right that you can't see any other point of view.

Keep making an ass out of yourself. I'm done. Mods: Official request for closing of the thread. It's going nowhere.

I didn't insult you. I've just expressed that your behavior makes me sad because you don't allow us to communicate about the topic without getting aggressive and offensive. That's not an insult.

All I do is expressing how Vanilla was designed in 2004 and how Classic is designed now. I don't need proof to say the sky is blue.

Community and Social Dynamics are crucial for the Classic. Everybody knows that. No proof needed. It's not about what I think is correct. It's about how Blizzard designed the game. I'm not stating opinions in this thread. I'm stating facts. I'm only expressing what Blizzard have already said. I'm just stating their design philosophy. You can get angry and aggressive all you want, but that doesn't make it less true.

LFG undermines social dynamics as it allows you to CONVENIENTLY do dungeons without having to communicate outside of dungeons or participate in the community.

MOP was designed based on different philosophies than Vanilla/Classic. The fact that you use a scenario from MOP as an example just shows how out-of-touch you are with this topic.

You already expressed that you're done, but somehow you came back with even worse behavior. Am I supposed to believe you this time?

- - - Updated - - -

No man. I just can't do that. The only way to play the game is to have a button to push that does everything for you. Its more progressive.
I mean why do you care? Just don't use it 4Head. It will just fuck up the entire game by becoming something mandatory. It hurts nobody just the entire game.
I'm a sad lazy anti social retailer and I need qol in everything to think breathe play etc.

@SirCowdog clearly wants this. He wants to do dungeons without having to talk with anyone outside of dungeons. The only communication he wants to do is what is necessary in relation to dungeons tactics. Making social bonds with other people and participating in the community is clearly not important in his opinion.

[Aeula]

The add on wouldn’t have affected the game anyway, nobody talks to begin with.

[Soikona]

You’re correct that the purpose of spamming trade chat and using a LFG tool is both to group up with random people. And as mentioned before, you’re not meant to use either. You’re not meant to spam chat to find a group. Spamming trade chat is not the right way to find a group. Spamming trade chat is not the right way to find a group

Now... the difference between the two is that one is a tool made specifically to group up with random players while the other is a central part of the communication in the game. The chat is in the game for many different reasons while a LFG tool only has one purpose. You can very easily block LFG but you cannot really block players ability to chat.

You’re NOT meant to spam trade chat to find a group. Spamming trade chat is a BAD thing. You’re not meant to group up with random players to do dungeons

- - - Updated - - -



Blizzard don’t want people to base grouping on random players. Therefore they want to block tools that allow grouping up with random players. It’s not about nostalgia. It’s about social dynamics. We should not treat other players as NPCs.

So what you are saying is that spamming /2 and LFG are just as bad? So why not just ban both? Since you said yourself, spamming /2 is bad which means by spamming it you are destroying a community element. As detailed by you. If you want your “precious community” surely wouldn’t spamming /2 be worse?

[Vorkreist]

The add on wouldn’t have affected the game anyway, nobody talks to begin with.

It would have affected the game.
Yea I agree on retail nobody talks.

[Kaver]

So what you are saying is that spamming /2 and LFG are just as bad? So why not just ban both? Since you said yourself, spamming /2 is bad which means by spamming it you are destroying a community element. As detailed by you. If you want your “precious community” surely wouldn’t spamming /2 be worse?

How would you ban people from using chat?

Ok I'll put it very simply my friend:

- Spamming trade chat: Not very convenient and you cannot ban the chat as it is essential for the core game.

- LFG: Very convenient and it can very easily be banned as it has no other purpose in the game.

Do you see the difference?

CONVENIENCY IS BAD. IT MAKES PEOPLE LAZY AND TOXIC.

Also just to clarify:

Spamming trade chat to find groups is NOT good

I repeat:

Spamming trade chat to find groups is NOT good

If I could stop both LFG and trade chat spamming I would. But how? You cannot really stop people from using the chat. You cannot ban the chat. At least it is INCONVENIENT. And that is the main thing. You need to making it as inconvenient as possible to group up with random people. This way players will be more inclined to add other players to their friend list and interact with their guild

[Aeula]

It would have affected the game.
Yea I agree on retail nobody talks.

I’ve had more conversations with randomers on retail this week than I have in Classic, despite getting 20 levels in the latter and mostly just AFKing and doing the odd Mythic+ or Raid in the latter.

[Beuargh]

The LFG addon for new players that have started 1 year later after Classic launch is not a bad idea.

I speak from my own personal experience. I have started playing WoW mid TBC and the experience was horrible even at high pop realm.
The point is, it was WAY WAY harder and time consuming to find lowbies, because everyone was level 70 and raiding, this will eventually happen in classic.

At launch, WoW Classic experience will be really easy for you, because everyone is levelling and everyone will be willing to party up without wasting time to complete the content. Fast-forward 1 year later, this will be waay harder for new players, so and LFG system that can be used DURING LEVELING ONLY, is not a bad idea 1 year later from now.

Little hypocrisy within the WoW Classic community ; "Disable LFG, but allow Quest helper" which these are on the same tier. They both help you with levelling.

you are beating a dead horse here.....

your problem and your solution have been talked about in vanilla already. didn't happened until way later, and people screamed "NO CHANGES" since the classic annoncement.

I do really understand what you are talking about. but that's how it was in vanilla, you wasted a lot of time trying to find a group if not in a guild or no friends, and vanilla is what people asked for so that's what you got. and last part of your post about the "hypocrisy", I had a quest helper in vanilla but no group finder. so don't know if it's hypocrisy, but that's how it was.... "no changes" like they said even for the worst and contradictory things like that.

In the end I'm surprisingly ok with the huge step back in QoL with classic. it's a different game with a different flavor. only thing I'll miss is transmog.

[Vorkreist]

I’ve had more conversations with randomers on retail this week than I have in Classic, despite getting 20 levels in the latter and mostly just AFKing and doing the odd Mythic+ or Raid in the latter.

You are pretending to play classic now? All your posts are anti-classic. Quite hard to believe anything you say.