Idea for fixing level bloat in retail.

[GreenJesus]

At the time the cataclysm quests were really cool and I enjoyed quests like "Welcome to the Machine" with Sparkle Pony elf and Orcus, or riding along Sylvanas in Silverpine Forest, or Garrosh dropping the Korkron guy off the cliff... The problem is that now the timeline is all messed up as well as the world is forever broken/in conflict (for example darkshore still had the tornado even during the pre-patch) and the westfall garrison is still on fire I believe?

[Arck908]

I'd like to see some sort of full on reset. Everybody starts back at whatever level they deem ok to be sent back to (or 1) in the new content zones, and at whatever the new level cap is (60? Who knows.) you gain access to a "Chromie" NPC somewhere in the world where you can travel "back in time" to all the content from Classic to BFA if you still want to farm cosmetics/mounts.

Essentially I'd like a complete overhaul of everything. I think Cataclysm has shown they can do something to that extent except this time the majority of the overhauled content would be for the content moving forward not just a revamp of old content for alts.

[Powerogue]

So separating it out in the same way as professions?

So let's say you're level 60 + 10 BFA levels, cata levels, and WotLK levels, and you want to grind Legion dungeons for transmog. Would you be a mere level 60? Would you be unable to be above level 60+10 legion in that region, and thus incapable of powering through old raids and such solo?

I don't know how to feel about this TBH. It could be good, but it's a very big dynamic shift and would make grinding out old transmogs much harder as you'd need a group of like-minded players.

And how would the gear work?

[Directionalk9]

Bring back role specific stats, i.e. spirit for healers; every level you gat a stat point spend it where ever. 130 stat points in HP? you go girl. Every ten levels a rank point, spend it on any ability, want rank 13 Stormstrike? You the man, man. Every fifteen levels we have a talent choice like we do now.

Additionally, any toon at max level gives any toon a 5% exp boost on top of any exp boost (heirlooms) up to 50%, i.e. 3 max toons, any still leveling will have a 15% exp boost.

Or straight up remove leveling, every class gets their own DK/DH start, we learn our class/spec a bit and then we just exist in the world ready to do what we want.

[Twdft]

So separating it out in the same way as professions?

So let's say you're level 60 + 10 BFA levels, cata levels, and WotLK levels, and you want to grind Legion dungeons for transmog. Would you be a mere level 60? Would you be unable to be above level 60+10 legion in that region, and thus incapable of powering through old raids and such solo?

I don't know how to feel about this TBH. It could be good, but it's a very big dynamic shift and would make grinding out old transmogs much harder as you'd need a group of like-minded players.

And how would the gear work?

Using my example of max level 20 for every expansion: just slap a % modifier on gear if used in old content. Let's say Outland, Northrend and Pandaria endgame raids all drop ilvl 100. Using Pandaria gear in Northrend scales it to ilvl 200 and ilvl 300 in Outland. It would still be easy to solo farm old raids in new gear, but you could also choose to only equip gear from the expansion you are in and play old raids for a real challenge.

[LorDC]

All the other systems has to accommodate for such a thing. Just like the scaling tech had a few flaws with items and some mobs

All other systems already accommodate flexible level scaling. Dialing everything back to level 60 is not much of problem in current game.

[Itori]

I would rather just have a level squish, make the lvl cap 50-60 it would be easy to just take our current lvl divide by 2, and call it good.

[lollerlaban]

All other systems already accommodate flexible level scaling. Dialing everything back to level 60 is not much of problem in current game.

Considering how much of a problem the first one was and how long it took to fix, i beg to differ

[shade3891]

I have been wondering about this as well.. is there a way to fix the qyesting / leveling without it being super weird or a mega huge overhaul to the current system.

First the level cap, let's go with 60 for nostalgia reasons.
The time it takes to level to 120 should still be the same but your level 60 in the end.

I do strongly think after leaving the starter zone, you need to be put on a (main) questline in the next zone following a story.
Remove most side quests, these becomes available at a later stage (max level). This gives the player a more clear and streamlined goal.
The main story questline should lead you in the end to a dungeon/elite boss connected to the zone and story. (dungeon quest)
Completing a dungeon quest gives a dungeon point (DP) and a huge amount of experience, you should want to complete these quests!
(Bonus experience from doing LFG should be removed.)

Yes, completing dungeons quests grants dungeon points.(DP) What are these?! Complete 10 to unlock any talent row.
This gives player incentive to travel the world complete the storylines and obtain these dungeon quests at the end.

DP (not level)
10 [ talent A ] [ talent B ] [ talent C ]
20 [ talent A ] [ talent B ] [ talent C ]
30 [ talent A ] [ talent B ] [ talent C ]
40 [ talent A ] [ talent B ] [ talent C ]
50 [ talent A ] [ talent B ] [ talent C ] (locked until you reached lvl 40)
60 [ talent A ] [ talent B ] [ talent C ] (locked until you reached lvl 40)
70 [ talent A ] [ talent B ] [ talent C ] (locked until you reached lvl 60)

Yes this way the talent system is no longer bound to your level, except the last three rows these are unlocked later on.


But what when you level up? When you level-up you gain a skillpoint! spend these freely:

Skillpoints:
Critical: 0.2% per point [ 0/999]
Haste: 0.2% per point [ 0/999]
Mastery: 0.2% per point [ 0/999]
Versatility: 0.2% per point [ 0/999]
For every skillpoint spend you gain 0.1% stamina and 0.1% agility/strength/intellect.

After level 60 your experience bar slowly continues to fill up if you complete a normal quest and when you reach the next level you gain a skillpoint. Worldscaling for all zones and dungeons, zones do not scale up with your skillpoints or ilvl. Als completing the dungeon quest or reaching max level unlocks sides quests for that zone.

This would make leveling / questing / the world more fun i.m.o.

Random info:
Vanilla: 16 dungeons (7 kalimdor / 9 E.K.)
TBC: 15 dungeons
Wrath: 13 dungeons
Cata: 10 dungeons
Mists: 9 dungeons
WoD: 8 dungeons
legion: 12 dungeons
Bfa: 10 dungeons
93 dungeons, to gain access to all talent points you need to complete 70 dungeon quests.

[Mardux]

No this isn't true. This is the main reason people want the level squish.

According to your logic it feels about the same if you advance to the next level and that's it vs advancing to the next level and getting a new spell or talent or a more significant boost in power etc... even the new gear you'll get through the scaled content would be way better than than the +1 int or whatever they usually have in low lvl zones.

Gear is almost meaningless while leveling. Even moreso when you change the brackets set by expansions. +1 int (after this level squish people are so desperate for) or +5 int now. It doesn't actually matter when all that leveling gear gets trashed once you hit cap and start doing endgame content.

[Zephire]

So? New abilities give you more power, in fact it's pretty much the only thing that can give you that in the current game. And there were none from 110 to 120, and I can hardly come up with any new that do not unneccessarily bloat your set or are boring as some passive damage increase which we had in WoD. Even in the current game getting new talents while leveling feels great and (yes, depending on the talent row) can make you significantly stronger. So how could they come up with new ones when we level to 130? 150?

I get what your saying but abilities is a separate system to levels. My point is that leveling has nothing to do with abilities. You can't argue for or against a level squish by talking about abilities. There's also a ton of abilites that could be introduced so should be no problem adding new without bloating. Homogenizing on the other hand is a different beast entirely...

I am talking about mob scaling while leveling, not from getting better gear. I explicitely explained that gear is the only way of progression while leveling, not levels. In Classic for example you can level to 15 and even with the same gear you will dominate earlier zones. If I return to Voldun 5 levels later I will be just as powerful as I was before (or, as I explained, actually weaker due to loss of secondaries and in case of BFA even legendaries).

I am not sure how you cannot see the difference there. There is no feeling of progression right now except the increase of number of levels. Without level scaling you start in a zone and get progressively stronger with every level. And when choosing a new zone after finishing the old you can choose to go to a zone where the mobs and quests are below, the same or above your level, depending on your capabilities - and not just "even" opponents. You can help a friend and rush through a zone that's five levels below you. You can do instance quests solo or in a smaller group simply because you overleveled them.
But just to point out that this is not a discussion about mob scaling yes or no, because obviously mob scaling also has great advantages. But one of the big disadvantages is that it removes character progression from leveling, and they failed to come up with an idea to compensate for that (not that I had one).

Right, yeah, that's true. You could still feel somewhat more powerful due to having new abilities or just more abilities than the one you level with but yeah, that's not the same as outleveling the area. I guess the subject there is about scaling though and not really level squish and what that would do, again different systems.

I've thought about leveling and power a lot, like, a lot, but I always end up with systems that is just a different type of leveling and the fundamental flaws is still there. Power is a monster to tackle tbh!

[spleen1015]

Gear is almost meaningless while leveling. Even moreso when you change the brackets set by expansions. +1 int (after this level squish people are so desperate for) or +5 int now. It doesn't actually matter when all that leveling gear gets trashed once you hit cap and start doing endgame content.

While the impact is minimal at the time, overall gear is not meaningless.

Level a toon from 1 to 120 and never take a gear upgrade. See what that's like.

[Puri]

You could still feel somewhat more powerful due to having new abilities or just more abilities than the one you level with but yeah, that's not the same as outleveling the area.

Yes, that's exactly what I am saying. Gaining abilities is the practically the only way of increasing the player power, and when you have 120, 130 or 150 levels you cannot come up with new abilites even every X levels. They would be either boring passives or new ranks, or they would bloat your bar or be meaningless cosmetics.

Currently when you level you get new abilities every few levels until around level 70, then it just stops, there are no more abilities to learn and the only thing that a level 70 character is separating from a level 120 character (apart from gear obviously) is two more talent rows.
So a level squish will bypass that issue, you can have meaningful character progression without bloat all the way up to max level.

[Erlking]

I would prefer a lvl squish to 30-40. Otherwise it will become bloated again quickly.

[rrayy]

And what exactly is the problem with a simple level squish to level 60?

I don't want all my hard work getting those levels taken away because a small minority are afraid of big numbers.

- - - Updated - - -

Blizzard wants it. Because next expansion will be level 130. Levels really mean little until you get to the final 10 so decreasing that number could be done in a way to make the lower levels feel meaningful again. Blizzard won't speed up the leveling experience if they squish. The levels will take longer to compensate so the time sink will be the same.

You don't know what Blizzard wants.

[therealstegblob]

I don't think a level squish is needed. I have a feeling that most of the advocates just want the ability to level their alts faster and know that if Blizz ever did a level squish leveling speed would probably be further improved.

How dim can you be, man? A level squish would not mean faster leveling, it'd just mean re-adjusted xp rates between levels so as to take more or less the same amount of time.

As for the mechanics of leveling, leveling feels stupidly fucking worthless right now. It's just a brain dead slog of TV static as you go through level after level without gaining anything meaningful. Talent points every 15 levels and sparse gains of skills aren't enough to make leveling feel not barren and totally unengaged.

[Paperfox]

I would suggest that they introduce two types of heirloom gear, one that includes a bigger XP buff (say 2x) and one that doesn't have any. And make the new stuff tied to how many high level toons you have (say 115 or higher).

Once the new gear is available then get rid of every third level.

This way those who enjoy the leveling experience can do so at an streamlined pace or not depending on their desires.

[ultima ratio]

lvls rnt the problem, 120 does feel much more epic than 60, there is no bloat, but 15 years! but a reward loop issue, as the power increase via lvling is slower than endgame (also scaling), esp. the last 10 lvls to 120.
pre endgame reward frequency doesnt simply requires a major, but a meaningful boost (that actual talent tree doesnt provide accordingly).

also i would love to have some more paragon lvls, as HoA isnt sufficient enough.

[KayRule]

And what exactly is the problem with a simple level squish to level 60?

Because now you go 2 levels without getting an ability or talent instead of 18.

[Kikoku]

They can keep the old world 1-60 still, but maybe drop tbc/wotlk to be 50-60 zones, cata/mop 60-65, wod/legion 65-70, bfa 70-80 and next expansion 80-90 and the next 90-100