Eternal Palace feels bland to me because of the lack of gear

[Stardrift]

You don't get the memo, don't you? Just stop raiding. Blizz clearly wants us to only do M+ so they don't gotta put effort into designing new armour.

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Experience > gear, imo.

If you need a raid to drop your uberlootz in order for you to enjoy said raid, that's not anyone else's fault.

I bet you were amongst the majority that cried about how useless dungeons were because there was no incentive to do them shortly after hitting max level before M+ was a thing.

Nobody did dungeons after getting a couple pieces of gear from heroics. Don't pretend you grind these types of things for "fun".

[Zenfoldor]

I dont play anymore, in fact havent played in almost a decade but loved checking the new class sets every new raid. Its so sad they removed the sets.

This. They really should revert this change next xpak. It really reduced raiding imo.

[Alvito]

I've been wondering lately as why Ep felt so lacklustre past the first kill i've done.

I'm still thrillwd to progress in mythic but reclearing feels like a chore when i only had this feeling toward the end of a tier.

And the issue is that the reward from the raid id very unrewarding. There is no new set to get so no gameplay change, and out of the 16 slits of loot i got, only SIX that are actually BIS from the raid.

Neck is HoA
Rings are mechagon
Shoulders are vendor
Pants are m+
4 benthic pieces
Trinket is craft

In order for a piece to be an upgrade in the raid (mythic) it has to be both warforged and has a socket.

I m glad i can gear up a bit outside of raid but the hardest content in game should still reward the best loots, at least slightly...

This is one of the things that has help erode number in mythic raids. In Legion TF did cause some issues now TF with the addition of buying azerite gear for some raids offer no gear options in the first few weeks. Mix I. Benthic gear and you can have most of your raiding bis before you raid. Sure you could us some of the raid gear in mythic plus where you might not use the 1 to 4 pieces of benthic you have, but it sure is a hard sell to get people to grind raids so they can grind dungeons.

[Nefastus]

This. They really should revert this change next xpak. It really reduced raiding imo.

It was one of the main reasons I had to raid. If I was still playing I think its very unlikely that I would bother with raids.

[Alvito]

Experience > gear, imo.

If you need a raid to drop your uberlootz in order for you to enjoy said raid, that's not anyone else's fault.

It isn't a choice of one or the other though, at least it shouldn't be. While people should do content for fun it sure is nice when there is at least the potential for some reward or power gain for the hours spent on content. This becomes a much larger factor when you are both farming content or get stuck on progress. I know for myself there are 2 things in the entire raid I would use, both drop from the last boss. 1 being the trinket which even with weekly lfr, normal and heroic kills and people changing loot specs for me I haven't seen. The other being the staff which I would have to kill her in mythic for and my raid won't be doing that for a while and potentially won't get CE the way people have been dipping out of raiding.

[Ange]

considering you have to zoom in a kilometer to see someone's tmog, it's widely known tmogs are very undesireable

LOL

People comparing gear, talents, transmog more than playing the game.
The amount of transmog PUGs is 50:1 to any RBG/warfront/whateverPvPminigame there is.

The amount of players doing stuff for transmog dwarfs anything in the game.

[klaps_05]

Well the issue is if there is nothing to gain from the raid for loot a lot of people wont want to do it. If you say do it for the story then once you clear it once u dont need to run it again. The carrot on the stick is what keeps a lot of people playing and if the carrot is removed then its pointless making it one of the WORST loot systems in 15 years of WoW

Raids have cool encounters, cool story and some cool items (especially with some of the new design to have special effects, e.g. channeltrinket, azshara staff, belts/gloves/etc haste/crit/heal procs, ring hp transfer). The less raids are about items the better imo, this way you wont have people who keep bitching "oh i have to do the raid to get X item so i can do Y" and instead those ppl will just do Y.

And the loot system is not just about raid gear - its about allowing every type of player, from hardcore endgame to roleplayers to have advancement.

[Varolyn]

Raiding is blizz's prime form of endgame content for WoW, and they should go back to the old formula of the best pve gear coming from raids.

Sorry M+ bros, but the M+ experiment is clearly not going well in BFA. It was fun in Legion, but running the same dungeon with higher numbers and a timber gets old after awhile. MDI viewership has been tanking, and people are bored of seeing the same comps over and over again. Plus the fact that people are just frustrated with BFA dungeon design in general.

So, blizz should focus on what they do best (end-game raid content), ditch M+, and instead bring in more dungeons like 8.1 Kara or mechagon, and perhaps bring back Challenge mode for the other dungeons.

[Mardux]

Well the issue is if there is nothing to gain from the raid for loot a lot of people wont want to do it. If you say do it for the story then once you clear it once u dont need to run it again. The carrot on the stick is what keeps a lot of people playing and if the carrot is removed then its pointless making it one of the WORST loot systems in 15 years of WoW

There is nothing else I need from EP. Still going to run it though because I have a guild that raids. But that just goes back to my crazy idea that experience is more important than a piece of gear.

[GringoD]

Gear has become uninteresting for a while now. Benthic just makes it worse. At least you still have to get gear for M+ and for the time after EP.
The kicker however is that all the good shit in the raid seems to be concentrated in the first 3 bosses. We're stuck on Ashvane, but I don't need anything from her or any of the following bosses. It's really weird.

[Shaetha]

There is nothing else I need from EP. Still going to run it though because I have a guild that raids. But that just goes back to my crazy idea that experience is more important than a piece of gear.

Get out of here. No one plays video games because they enjoy them any more. /s

In all seriousness, if you only do things to get gear, your approach to the game is wrong. It's one of the reasons I hate Mythic+.

[Raelbo]

Everyone saw the problem with Benthic gear coming from a mile ago and yet did nothing because they either hate Mythic raiders and hate it when we have better gear or just plain and simple lack the foresight to grasp why raids dropping shit gear is not fun.

Oh for crying out loud!

No one hates mythic raider or hates it that you have better gear than the rest of us

While I'd agree that they probably overdid it just a tiny bit by putting more BiS stuff outside the raid than is ideal, I still think that people like you are making a mountain out of a molehill.

Let's be clear, the raid gear is hardly "shit". It's still good gear (taking a balanced view, ie across all high end content, it beats benthic comfortably) and if, as a mythic raider, you're relying primarily on the raid for gear and not putting any particular effort into pursuing every avenue outside of raiding for those BiS slots, it's not really a big deal.

Spreading good gear across multiple activities gives you an incentive to do more than just raiding and that's a good thing. I guess some people just refuse to be happy....ever.

[Zantera]

I can see the point because 4 slots locked for benthic, 3 for azerite and then even for the rest of the gear you might get some TFs from weekly chest or m+. As a person who loves both m+ and raiding, this is sadly one of the downsides is that you really gotta make the raid gear special because otherwise you might end up in a place where you are happy with your gear and you're only halfway into the raid. Not saying you should raid with gear as motivation (i don't), but it used to be a nice carrot. I think for me BFA really botched it with the removal of tier sets. Legion also had some really cool trinkets from the raids (Nighthold especially) that made those items very desirable even if you did a lot of m+.

[bullseyed]

Im wearing 6 pieces of Benthic Gear atm on my Hunter.

Base Mythic (445) my only upgrades are Shoulder Azerite thats about 200 dps upgrade and Font which is about 400.

At 455.... There are 5 total upgrades...Higher ilvl Bow, Pants that are only 142 dps higher than Benthic Pants, Higher Coral and then the two items mentioned above

My guild is also currently 5/8 ..close to 6/8 so its just kind of like..well I guess hope for TF or sockets or tradeable loot thats good or something

Which 6? You're supposed to use gloves, wrists, and boots. Belt is kind of a sidegrade.

[Venziir]

considering you have to zoom in a kilometer to see someone's tmog, it's widely known tmogs are very undesireable

Guess that's why everyone mogs their gear then...

[Poe]

Which 6? You're supposed to use gloves, wrists, and boots. Belt is kind of a sidegrade.

??? This is wrong.

Belt does almost as much damage as the gloves/wrist. On some logs it's even doing more or equal to.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...-done&source=6
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...done&source=18
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...done&source=13

Counch Strike = Belt
Tidal droplets = gloves
frost blast = bracers

[bullseyed]

I don't know how undesirable it is considering it seems of pretty popular use. Tier sets are pretty well visible even zoomed out and helms is what you see in someone's portrait when you have them targeted if they have it visible.

Why would anyone be wasting UI space to include the player portrait? Oof.


Biggest problem with xmog is most people seem to think most sets are pretty ugly. Lotta people mog back to TBC/WotLK gear. It's all subjective, but I hope they focus on making "better" gear sets in future patches. Maybe make the stuff a little more realistic instead of over the top. Biggest problem for me is that I'm a hunter but most hunters in fantasy stuff use leather gear, so there are very few realistic hunter mogs available due to wearing mail in WoW.

Examples:

https://pp.userapi.com/c837732/v8377...F-sk3nVC2o.jpg

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/ed/7c...c98e8c5773.png

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/e4/f8...a7c66ccfc6.jpg

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/...20130708222756

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Is it just me, but isnt this literally the PERFECT gearing system??

Neck is HoA
everyone gets it, its the one thing all characters share and brings them together (azerite).

Rings are mechagon
Bis gear from the NEWEST 5man content (soon to be farmable with next season of m+, an alternative to the big groups doing raids

Shoulders are vendor
Guaranteed if you save residuum, gamble to get it sooner (only thing i would change from this system is double residuum from scrapping and make it so you cant gamble the same piece until you get all 6 once)

Pants are m+
Same as rings, but throws you into other dungeons as pants vary in secondaries!

4 benthic pieces
Story-line based guaranteed gear which 1) helps ALL types of raider and 2) makes the storylines and new content(zones) not pointless for high-end players. I would scale them down just a bit to be on par with Mythic gear

Trinket is craft
And the cherry on top - CRAFTING BEING RELEVANT.

This system with some small tweaks is imo the absolute best loot system in 15 years of WoW.

I don't think the mecha rings are BIS for most classes. I've heard they are for DKs. The JC crafted ones are best for many classes.

Agree that the diversity of gearing is nice in a way, but mythic raid should probably be BIS across the board, and the #2 best should be as you described, and like 2% lower DPS or something. So close that RNG makes it the same, but the best items are still from the hardest content.

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??? This is wrong.

Belt does almost as much damage as the gloves/wrist. On some logs it's even doing more or equal to.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...-done&source=6
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...done&source=18
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...done&source=13

Counch Strike = Belt
Tidal droplets = gloves
frost blast = bracers

Nothing you linked has any evidence to support any of your claims, as it is not a sim showing DPS vs the 455 raid gear.

Also, even if it were, it is only relevant for DH, and the topic of the quoted post is Hunter. So entirely meaningless spam on your part.

[Poe]

Nothing you linked has any evidence to support any of your claims, as it is not a sim showing DPS vs the 455 raid gear.

Also, even if it were, it is only relevant for DH, which I don't play. So meaningless.

?? Link me your toon and I'll simcraft your character and show you that it's an uprgrade.

Saying Vim's belt isn't as big of an upgrade as the gloves and bracers is misinformation.

You don't seem to be very knowledgeable on this topic. The fact that majority of the 99% + parsing dps are using the belt is more evidence than you will be able to provide in a counter argument.

[bullseyed]

Lol right, because all the M+ kiddies would absolutely keep running that if it didn't reward easy loot.

Similar to PVP, M+ participation would probably drop 90%+ if it didn't give raid upgrades.

[Poe]

Nothing you linked has any evidence to support any of your claims, as it is not a sim showing DPS vs the 455 raid gear.

Also, even if it were, it is only relevant for DH, and the topic of the quoted post is Hunter. So entirely meaningless spam on your part.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/ra...3#class=Hunter

Literally every top parsing hunter is using the belt.

Please provide evidence that supports your claim.

Link me any hunter and I'll sim and prove that the belt is an upgrade and link the sim results here.