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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by twothe View Post
    Thanks to some bugs in the layering technology I can safely say that layers work small-area-based, same as phasing does. This seems plausible because Blizzard would just use the technology they have instead of creating something new from scratch. This would also explain why you get completely different results that might mislead you to think there are a lot of layers, while in fact there might be only 4, since you get different results for each individual small area.

    So imagine you are walking from Northshire to Westfall. On that route you have a set of predefined layers of the world where you will appear. In Northshire there are 2 layers because it is currently not very crowded. You are on layer 1, do a /who comparison with a friend and notice there have to be at least 2 layers. Now you walk to Elwynn which is heavily crowded and uses 4 layers currently. You again do a who, get 4 completely new results (because those people from Northshire are not properly included), and determine there must be 4 layers, for a total of 6 layers. The Hogger area however is not crowded at all, so there is only 1 layer active. Again a who tells you completely different results from the previous ones, so you determine there must be at least 7 layers. If you continue that you end up with hundreds of different results, but not because there are hundreds of layers, but because each individual small area has a different setting which gives you different results on your /who check.

    Science fact of the day: if you get weird results, then maybe everything is fine, just the way you measure things is wrong.
    I think it was mentioned in a blue post that once you are logged in and put in a layer, you won't leave that layer (or enter another) just by walking or changing zones. In order to change layers you'd have to get grouped with someone who is in another layer, or log out and then back in.

  2. #42
    Pandaren Monk Redroniksre's Avatar
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    Some people here honestly think the majority are abusing layering? That is pretty funny. They have zero proof of course, just looking for clicks and bait comments i suppose.

  3. #43
    Honestly, I kinda believe them that it's blown out of proportion. But at the same time I can't help but notice they didn't mention exploiting layering to AOE farm mobs at all....And yeah, I do suspect that those guilds that already killed Rag probably are abusing this for crafting mats and stuff. The screenshot of all the level 1 rogues with the same name wasn't doctored. Hopefully they at least give 'em a warning to scare them straight.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Daish View Post
    this blue poster is ignorant or flat out lying about how the /who command works it can be used to see how many people exist in your layer and can be used to estimate how many layers exist

    on my server ive estimated about 10 different layers 50 is the max result for the /who command but you can include levels or class types to narrow the search and find the total population of each zone and compare it to how many exist within your own layer

    The thing is the guy in this screenshot is IN teldrassil, which kind of messes up the experiment. /who shows you players on your current layer IN THE SAME ZONE, and that's how it's always worked. By /who 1-60 you forced it to show all layers.

    The blue post was saying two different people OUTSIDE of teldrassil would get different results by doing /who teldrassil, regardless of layer. And yeah, it sounds confusing as I type it, but it does jive with the what the blue post said.

  4. #44
    The Lightbringer Azerox's Avatar
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    I would say this if I was Blizzard.
    Economy is already broken beyond repair.

  5. #45
    Ah yes, what would the comments section of a Blue post be if there weren't a healthy number of players disagreeing with Blizzard's assessment for no reason other than completely unwarranted cynicism?

  6. #46
    I am Murloc! Kuja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EternalBany View Post
    fix hunters
    What's there that needs fixing?

    My gold making blog
    Your journey towards the gold cap!


  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Kuja View Post
    What's there that needs fixing?
    More weapons!
    They always told me I would miss my family... but I never miss from close range.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Lycanthat View Post
    All I wanna know is: if a server currently has for example 3 layers, is Blizzard essentially relying on a 2/3rds drop-off of concurrent players in order to keep the queues the same?
    Queues and layers have nothing to do with each other. A server with 3 layers will never have a queue.

    Layers exist to prevent 20,000 people from stacking on the same quest mob at the same time to DC people or prevent them from clicking on it.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Layering was added to prevent the starting zones from being overrun when everyone logged on at the same time to do the starting quests. It makes sense that by the time you get to 60 and if there are only 4-5 other 60s on your server, you could all be in different layers and essentially have a whole zone to farm by yourself. This could result in those people farming lots of stuff relatively quickly.

    They could then log out and back in and have a 4/5 shot at getting put into a different layer and doing it all over again.

    The problem resolves automatically eventually as more people level up and/or quit.

  9. #49
    Layering makes my server feel kind of dead sometimes.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Daish View Post
    this blue poster is ignorant or flat out lying about how the /who command works it can be used to see how many people exist in your layer and can be used to estimate how many layers exist
    I think he simply pointed that a regular /who will list everyone on the server. He didn't rule out that a more specific command can work.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Daish View Post
    the regular /who command will only ever show people in your own layer
    No.
    If I do a "/who teldrassil 1-6", I have above 50 results.
    If I do a "/who z-"teldrassil" 1-6", I have 35 results.

    By default, the /who is realm-wide. The /who z-"" is layer-by-layer.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Akka View Post
    No.
    If I do a "/who teldrassil 1-6", I have above 50 results.
    If I do a "/who z-"teldrassil" 1-6", I have 35 results.

    By default, the /who is realm-wide. The /who z-"" is layer-by-layer.
    It's easier for Daish to pretend that he knows more than every other player and that Blizzard is blatantly lying than it is for him to notice that his "proof" of Blizzard's lies uses two DIFFERENT command strings for the comparison.

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    Ah yes, what would the comments section of a Blue post be if there weren't a healthy number of players disagreeing with Blizzard's assessment for no reason other than completely unwarranted cynicism?
    ... have you played any blizzard game in the last 10 years? Cynicism is completely warranted. How many times do they have to straight up lie before you stop lapping up the piss?

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Syce View Post
    its nice they made a post about this. They need to do it more often so people can start to understand that Blizzard CAN see everything going on in the game that the players cannot.
    Doesn't matter. They'll just tell themselves that Blizzard don't care about their problems and are just trying to milk the cow until it dies. Or that they're incompetent and bring out the "If I worked for them I would do X to fix it, it's easy I can't understand why they haven't fixed it yet" kind of armchair devving that really annoys me.

  15. #55
    Players were openly 'Layer hopping' on live, streamers were openly 'Layer hopping' on live and have been doing so since BFA launch, pretty obvious this would happen in Classic and if no one at Blizz could see that then they need to start sacking a ton of people, because this is their fault, Layering is just bad by design and even worse implementation.

  16. #56
    why tf is general chat layered

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by tangers58 View Post
    ... have you played any blizzard game in the last 10 years? Cynicism is completely warranted. How many times do they have to straight up lie before you stop lapping up the piss?
    Tell me your completely original thoughts about EA, please.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by bullseyed View Post
    Queues and layers have nothing to do with each other. A server with 3 layers will never have a queue.

    Layers exist to prevent 20,000 people from stacking on the same quest mob at the same time to DC people or prevent them from clicking on it.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Layering was added to prevent the starting zones from being overrun when everyone logged on at the same time to do the starting quests. It makes sense that by the time you get to 60 and if there are only 4-5 other 60s on your server, you could all be in different layers and essentially have a whole zone to farm by yourself. This could result in those people farming lots of stuff relatively quickly.

    They could then log out and back in and have a 4/5 shot at getting put into a different layer and doing it all over again.

    The problem resolves automatically eventually as more people level up and/or quit.
    Layers reduce queue time, just like extra servers would if people would switch to them.
    Layers allow you to put 50K or 100K players on a realm, without having to later merge servers and all the troubles that involves when there is the expected 95% drop-off, leaving the realms theoretically with a social population target of 2,5-5K.
    It is stated you do not change layers by briefly logging out and back on. I do wonder what their strategy is wrt 'popular' (streamer) layers. Do they put people that logged out in those into a long queue or just put them in another layer that has room?

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daish View Post
    this blue poster is ignorant or flat out lying about how the /who command works it can be used to see how many people exist in your layer and can be used to estimate how many layers exist

    on my server ive estimated about 10 different layers 50 is the max result for the /who command but you can include levels or class types to narrow the search and find the total population of each zone and compare it to how many exist within your own layer

    I don't know why you keep photoshopping. I just checked it myself and queries ``z-"Felwood" 1-60'' and ``Felwood 1-60'' return the same results. Stop spreading your propaganda.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by HuxNeva View Post
    Layers reduce queue time
    I'm sure you know more that Blizzard about their own IP.
    Snarky: Adjective - Any language that contains quips or comments containing sarcastic or satirical witticisms intended as blunt irony. Usually delivered in a manner that is somewhat abrupt and out of context and intended to stun and amuse.

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