Classic Test Realm - Petition

[Ethas]

It is so funny that people think test realms are for testing. Probably also think that alpha and beta game releases for bughunting too, lol.

Blizzard don't need to split community, generate marketing fuss, keep the part of auditory entertained and certainly there will be no generation of news feed for site like this so there is exactly zero point in making Classic PTR. Period.

[stomination]

Well new raids will be coming. Also as "class trial" for classic, also for testing addons, also for testing all kinds of stuff. It's not like it will cost a lot of development to create a test server while it could tremendously help addon devs.

Those raids are over a decade old.

[kaminaris]

Those raids are over a decade old.

And you believe it is going to be smooth bugless run? Like seriously?
You can't imagine how many bugs are still in the game.
Funny how I saw that one when writing this post: https://clips.twitch.tv/FlirtyRealLionLitty

[Erous]

This seems like a trap to continue to play Classic for free.

[kaminaris]

This seems like a trap to continue to play Classic for free.

No, still would require to have a sub. Also could be wiped each day (tho realistically, more likely on weekly basis), like all characters deleted so people wouldn't play there.
Like I said, "test realm" not realm on which you could just play while skipping leveling.

Hell, I would even be satisfied if it would be up for like couple of days each month.

[Wickedtongue]

lol if you think theres not gonna be a CTR. how else are they going to make qol changes that are coming soon? without any testing?

[Multitorix Davlen]

You know what I can do? I can release version based on what I find on wowhead. Then after release I will be spammed with 9001 bug reports because I didn't have classes on max level to test it. Thats how it works now for other addons, weeks in release and addons are still bugged.

What addon are you making that REQUIRES you to have a max level character if not ALL classes in order for it to work properly with zero bugs? What is this mystical magical theoretical addon, i really want to know what you're working on.

Serious questions that need to be answered for me to justify the existance of a PTR for classic.

What tools does a PTR give you that you cannot do on the current live version of the game outside of a free instant max level character?
Why do you NEED to have max level characters to test addons?
There are more questions that could be asked but these two are biggies for me.

[kaminaris]

What addon are you making that REQUIRES you to have a max level character if not ALL classes in order for it to work properly with zero bugs? What is this mystical magical theoretical addon, i really want to know what you're working on.

Serious questions that need to be answered for me to justify the existance of a PTR for classic.

What tools does a PTR give you that you cannot do on the current live version of the game outside of a free instant max level character?
Why do you NEED to have max level characters to test addons?
There are more questions that could be asked but these two are biggies for me.

MaxDps, I need max level characters to test if my code works properly. Thus I've been keeping up all classes on retail to max level for 4 expansions now. However retail is a lot easier as usually I know all spells and passives way before hitting max level (for example on BfA there was almost no differences).

So I just wrote rotations based on simcraft profiles and took spellIds from wowhead, then tested and iterated myself on training dummy. Some classes took multiple iterations as I just didn't have azerite for my alts. Usually test&fix phase takes from 1-3 hours for single specialization.

And no, in classic it won't be easier as some may think (due to multiple spell ranks, and extensive talents). It would be pretty similar effort compared to a single spec on retail.

Another example is AuctionFaster, AH addon that Method guild is using. Thats my addon which I had issues testing on classic. Got spammed with bug reports as I just did not have enough gold to make some tests. For example: Supposedly BoE items are not detected as "possible to sell".

For anyone who thinks addon development is ez pz, I suggest to work on some medium sized addon and see how testing can be a pain in the ass. Now imagine not being able to test at all.

[StillMcfuu]

Have you been wondering why sometimes suggests addons? Because they suggest addons to solve specific issues without developing it in their UI. Namely AH addons.
Awfully convenient right? Yet we have zero test environments. Zero support from blizzard side. But if something is wrong blizzard says: "Use addons guys".

When has Blizz ever suggested using an addon to "fix" some problem?

I've seen them suggest addons to specific people who ask Blizz to alter the game in some way to make their life easier, but I've never seen them suggest an addon as a fix to something blizz is ultimately responsible for.

What im saying here is if someone bitches about bar location and blizz says to just use an addon to fix it. That's a far cry off from say some hypothetical buff that is hidden from the player that requires an addon to keep track of.

[kaminaris]

When has Blizz ever suggested using an addon to "fix" some problem?

I've seen them suggest addons to specific people who ask Blizz to alter the game in some way to make their life easier, but I've never seen them suggest an addon as a fix to something blizz is ultimately responsible for.

What im saying here is if someone bitches about bar location and blizz says to just use an addon to fix it. That's a far cry off from say some hypothetical buff that is hidden from the player that requires an addon to keep track of.

It doesn't really matter the context, fact is simple, if blizzard says they do not support addons then they should not recommend addons themselves for players. Otherwise it's just hypocrisy. They DO support addons because they were integral part of the game since beta.

Moreover they are aware of issues caused supposedly by addons - which is in fact not true. It's issues with their code what is causing taints. Like the famous UIDropDown taints.

Also imagine this, one dude, addon dev, gets a brand new PC from blizz and rest of us can't even get a test realm

[TheRevenantHero]

No new raids are being made. There is nothing to test. As for addons, those are third party options that Blizzard doesn't have to cater to at all. They are under absolutely no obligation to make a classic test realm just for addon creators. Don't like it? Oh well. Blizzard is only required to test shit THEY made, not shit OTHER people made.

[chrisnumbers]

Blizzard rejects all petitions.

[FlubberPuddy]

Also imagine this, one dude, addon dev, gets a brand new PC from blizz and rest of us can't even get a test realm

Did that addon dev make a petition to Blizzard asking for a brand new PC? You honestly seem salty.

I've never heard of any of those addons you say you developed so they must not be that popular (even if Method, who assuredly are not the majority of players in the slightest, are using it) or used much at all.

A PTR for Classic seems wholly unnecessary and your reasoning doesn't sound convincing.

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As for addons, those are third party options that Blizzard doesn't have to cater to at all. They are under absolutely no obligation to make a classic test realm just for addon creators. Don't like it? Oh well. Blizzard is only required to test shit THEY made, not shit OTHER people made.

THIS as well.

[StillMcfuu]

It doesn't really matter the context, fact is simple, if blizzard says they do not support addons then they should not recommend addons themselves for players. Otherwise it's just hypocrisy. They DO support addons because they were integral part of the game since beta.

Moreover they are aware of issues caused supposedly by addons - which is in fact not true. It's issues with their code what is causing taints. Like the famous UIDropDown taints.

Also imagine this, one dude, addon dev, gets a brand new PC from blizz and rest of us can't even get a test realm

I actually agree that addon developers should be provided some type of testing ability, whether that be a Private server or some kind of extra live access. But the PTR isn't really meant for addon developers. And it's doubtful they would set up a public realm for everyone where I think a private access server for approved addon devs would be far easier.

I also think you take Blizz's position on addons a bit too skewed.

Blizz allows addons but has never really gone to the point of supporting them. They've always laid out pretty clear lines on what an addon can do. But they definitely don't suggest them in any meaningful way and their position is hardly hypocritical.

Blizz's support of the DBM creator isn't really that out of the ordinary for them. They've latched on to many hardluck cases through out wow's history, memorials in game, charity, etc... That shouldn't be misconstrued as support for addons, and more support for an important member of the community.

[kaminaris]

Did that addon dev make a petition to Blizzard asking for a brand new PC? You honestly seem salty.

I've never heard of any of those addons you say you developed so they must not be that popular (even if Method, who assuredly are not the majority of players in the slightest, are using it) or used much at all.

A PTR for Classic seems wholly unnecessary and your reasoning doesn't sound convincing.

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THIS as well.

No I am not salty. I don't even complain when I have to deal with undocumented and buggy code (actually I do but internally).
He did not make petition, he wrote something like this:
https://www.deadlybossmods.com/forum...3&p=1137#p1135

You might not heard of a lot of addons but that does not make them not popular. MaxDps is currently top 45 place in populary, right after Vuhdoo, higher than Plater, Atlas Loot Enhanced and World Quest List.

AuctionFaster is top 80 addon for classic and 146 for retail.

This is pretty silly argument: I haven't heard of it so it must not be popular. Don't you think?

Resoning is solid, so far I haven't seen a single decent argument why it would not be good. Because you know there is a gigantic difference between:
I wouldn't use it so it is unnecessary
Nobody will use it so it is unnecessary.

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I actually agree that addon developers should be provided some type of testing ability, whether that be a Private server or some kind of extra live access. But the PTR isn't really meant for addon developers. And it's doubtful they would set up a public realm for everyone where I think a private access server for approved addon devs would be far easier.

I also think you take Blizz's position on addons a bit too skewed.

Blizz allows addons but has never really gone to the point of supporting them. They've always laid out pretty clear lines on what an addon can do. But they definitely don't suggest them in any meaningful way and their position is hardly hypocritical.

Blizz's support of the DBM creator isn't really that out of the ordinary for them. They've latched on to many hardluck cases through out wow's history, memorials in game, charity, etc... That shouldn't be misconstrued as support for addons, and more support for an important member of the community.

Ok so let me get this straight:

1. Blizzard does occasionally support addons, depending on their whim,
2. Blizzard worked with addon devs before to resolve some issues, direct dev <-> blizzard dev communication
3. Unfortunately it is whimsical
4. Blizzard is perfectly aware of addons, at least most popular ones
5. They did suggest them in some cases as (one of them was community manager): Auctioneer, Recount, those are the cases I remember.
6. Even their testing team is using addons to test raid fights
7. Nobody really wants a new PC from blizzard from addon devs, but we are mad at them like hell for not being able to test our stuff.
8. We got beta BfA from addon dev channel. So that every dev could prepare their addons in advance. Previously we were at mercy of beta roulette.
9. It's not too much to ask for test realm as it already exists.

[Drusin]

Also new people can’t really test how classes play. I think it would make sense to have some kind of “PTR” for classic.

I probably can't say this, I'll probably get infracted but meh. I too felt this way and wanted a way to play characters at max to see if I should even bother, so I downloaded a vanilla client and hopped onto an instant 60 realm to try out claasses.

[Spotnick]

Petition for what? If Blizzard want people to test their game, don't you think they would ask?

Why would players ask for a test realm? stuff that has been in the live game AND tested a lot 15 years ago?

I really don't get why people would ask for a test realm, it's now how it works..

[XDurionX]

That's not really what PTR is used for. Classic doesn't have any new content to test so it doesn't really make sense to me to have a Classic PTR.

This. All the content in classic has been tested 15 years ago.

[Dundebuns]

I work in software development for about 10 years now.

This means nothing. I work with someone who has been in the software engineering business for 20 years and I prefer the work of juniors to him.

Long story short, you only ned a test environment for new stuff. The engine classic is run on is thoroughly tested through the current PTR and internal environments. We also have no new content for classic. A CTR is not warranted. You want to develop your own third party add-ons? Suffer what is available, or don't bother.

[kaminaris]

Petition for what? If Blizzard want people to test their game, don't you think they would ask?

Why would players ask for a test realm? stuff that has been in the live game AND tested a lot 15 years ago?

I really don't get why people would ask for a test realm, it's now how it works..

Please do not repeat that false argument. Classic is nowhere near Vanilla in terms of code.
It is based on 7.X.X with just DATA from classic, that has been converted.

If "stuff would be tested 15 years ago" we wouldn't need classic beta, and it would last for so long, let me remind you:
https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wo...ic-beta/223960

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This means nothing. I work with someone who has been in the software engineering business for 20 years and I prefer the work of juniors to him.

Long story short, you only ned a test environment for new stuff. The engine classic is run on is thoroughly tested through the current PTR and internal environments. We also have no new content for classic. A CTR is not warranted. You want to develop your own third party add-ons? Suffer what is available, or don't bother.

No, classic is not vanilla. Classic is new stuff. Amalgam of Legion client with classic data.

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This. All the conten in classic has been tested 15 years ago.

No, classic did not exist back then. Classic is vastly different from vanilla in terms of code.

Why people are saying false arguments?