Blizzard was right, retail is better.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

Depends on what you mean by harm. People asked for Classic WoW, not souped up "It's Classic but with Wrath of the Lich King class balance and quality of life!" It would no longer be classic WoW. Balance from classic WoW (hah, balance) would go more out the window than it already is. In fact one thing many people enjoyed about classic WoW was how different classes excelled at different things and weren't all homogenized. Want to two shot clothies? Assassination rogue in PvP. Want to own in general? Arms warrior. Want to run flags with unlimited CC breaks? Druid healer. Big dick DPS in raids? Mage or rogue. The game stops being classic WoW when you have druid DPS, horde paladins (lol blessing of kings and the anti aggro blessing), alliance shamans, etc.

Who asked for what exactly? How many? Are you sure you're not projecting? Clearly you're putting words in these players mouths just so you can win an argument.

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The forums are already filled to the brim of people crying about how they should make classic WoW servers "Better" and add more convenience factors that vanilla just didn't have.

Okay?

10chars

[Nhiosis]

I understand everything I say, you should go to dictionary.com though, as your illiteracy is the only thing reeking.

Warcraft is a popular franchise, fact.

It's original conception was heavily based on DnD, a successful format, fact.

WoW has a unique and timeless art-style that can hold up better than 99% of games against the test of time, fact.

All the people that talked shit moved from all the arguments I talked about, back to back (as each was disproven), fact.

No company ever would have put the time and resources into classic WoW if it was a bad game, fact.

You can say you don't like it, or you do like it, but you're unable to argue over whether it's a good game or not.

Now shoo little pest~

You said

"Vanilla is great, and cannot be a shit game(subjective, despite your illogical reasoning), even subjectively (lol). You might not like it; but it is still a good game.(subjective opinion) It's a popular franchise (Warcraft), based on a successful format (DnD), and crafted with a unique and timeless style.

You may not like it, but that doesn't make it a shitty game, sorry to break it to you." << again, your subjective opinion. I could reword that into me saying " you may like it, but that doesnt make it a good game, sorry to break it to you"

[Akasha64]

Classic may not be as good as it once was, but making an argument for retail WoW being a good game instead is just silly.

[barackohmama]

Classic is really good. It's "flaws" makes it even more fun. Retail is shit and full of welfare epix.

[Coldfire989]

No you are wrong. Your opinions are wrong and you are just wrong.

[Neuroticaine]

There are elements of Classic that are better than retail, but the overall core gameplay of retail is better. Leveling and class identity is absolute garbage in Classic. The problem in Retail is all of the arbitrary bullshit required to stay relevant (ex Heart of Azerite level and essences) that you can't hope to stay on top of unless you DO all that extra arbitrary bullshit.

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No you are wrong. Your opinions are wrong and you are just wrong.

excellent argument.

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Classic may not be as good as it once was, but making an argument for retail WoW being a good game instead is just silly.

How so? The core gameplay in retail is considerably better, especially when you consider that Blizzard has had to post several times explaining how certain elements of the game do not make sense, but they were "how it was in Classic" and thus, a "feature" not a "bug." If Classic came out today as a modern game, it would be considered irredeemably bad. There was plenty of arbitrary bullshit in Classic too, like farming resist gear that was essentially useless outside of one encounter. Making the argument that Classic is a good game is equally laughable.

[Justank]

Classic may not be as good as it once was, but making an argument for retail WoW being a good game instead is just silly.

Disagree entirely. Retail is a great game. It's not a good MMO. What it is, is a great action RPG with a persistent world tacked on.

[AzazeltheRuthless]

There are elements of Classic that are better than retail, but the overall core gameplay of retail is better. Leveling and class identity is absolute garbage in Classic. The problem in Retail is all of the arbitrary bullshit required to stay relevant (ex Heart of Azerite level and essences) that you can't hope to stay on top of unless you DO all that extra arbitrary bullshit.

I don't see how you believe that. Classic, gives you way more class quests than live does, such as learning your abilities. Shaman's need to go learn their totems, Warlocks on how to summon their demons, Druids their various forms. Hunters and Priests both have epic weapon quests they can go on. The game requires you to use majority of your talents, or when was the last time you ever remember needing CC in retail to really deal with mobs. Is it, just jerk it and watch heirlooms carry me forward.

Classic has it's own issues, but it's still a much engaging RPG experience than retail is.

How so? The core gameplay in retail is considerably better, especially when you consider that Blizzard has had to post several times explaining how certain elements of the game do not make sense, but they were "how it was in Classic" and thus, a "feature" not a "bug." If Classic came out today as a modern game, it would be considered irredeemably bad. There was plenty of arbitrary bullshit in Classic too, like farming resist gear that was essentially useless outside of one encounter. Making the argument that Classic is a good game is equally laughable.

I mean people were complaining about Hunters having to use the bows from range. Because you know...it's a range weapon?
Tauren's have a longer reach, because they are bigger than the other races.
Warriors don't have instantaneous health regen (because they have no health regen stacked)
Feared NPC's run away from you quickly
Quests don't show up on the minimap, because you need to actually, go on an adventure.

You act like these things were issues, I just see people being stupid. In retail, Blizzard caved into them, rather than fix the stupidity. Classic, would do just find as a modern game, just have dated graphics. It's not an experience for all your PubG and LoL fanboys, that can't go 10 minutes without get their ego stroked. Several types of gamers, that are perfectly fine with a slow grind. Korean MMO's still do quite fine.

[forrestgimp]

I have to admit,

Blizzard was correct. I did think I wanted Classic, I followed Classic news every single day and even took off work to play it on day 1. However, after playing to level 15 and putting about 15 hours into the game the nostalgia completely wore off.

Classic is not a good game. The mob mechanics are outdated with bad AI, the graphics are really really bad, the quests are so boring and bland (pick up x, kill z, talk to y) with no justification to be doing anything no cool story, the game design is horrible (quests sending you to an area and then walking back and then another quest sends you back to the area or having to go back and forth to deliver a letter to someone 5 feet away?), the UI elements are so lacking (no HP showing? Quest tracking inconsistent, node tracking inconsistent, etc), the game is slow for no reason (i.e. having to kill 55 boars for 4 livers?). Really it's so boring, there is no appeal to this game.

Anyway,
I have to give it to Blizzard, I did forget how bad Classic actually was and I do say that retail is much better.

I suspect in the coming weeks the nostalgia will wear off for everyone (it seems to be already happening as full servers on day one are medium or low now) so players are dropping off like flies and this will just have been a big waste of development that could have been done to make retail much better.

Why bother with a thread? Just stop playing it then and go back to retail oh and dont let the door hit you on the way out.

[Loeko]

Probably not very, considering the nostalgia fad of Classic will die pretty quick.

Like Overwatch's popularity?

[ShimmerSwirl]

Since this thread won't die despite proof the OP is a troll, I'll just post this here:

I won't be playing Classic because it is an objectively bad game that will dead only a year or so after launch.

Posted by the OP a month before release. Troll status confirmed.

[Sezh]

That's exactly the case in BFA. Look at world quest gear, bethnic gear, etc. Sorry but you are dead wrong on this. It takes more time and commitment to get gear in classic because they are 40man raids that drop 2-3 epics per boss. Not only will gearing take longer, it plays a bigger role in BGs. I'd like to see you go against me in full Naxx gear and you in blues from dungeons and see how that goes.

No, I am not wrong. If world quests had reliably enough good rewards, mythic raiders would do them. I didn't do a single gear rewarding WQ in Legion or BFA past the first week of expansion release. Because the gear is shit.

Most mythic raiders pretty much don't even bother doing Heroic at some point, because guess what: The only reliable way to get the best gear in the game is to do the hardest content in the game.

Getting a maxed out character in BFA requires a lot more player skill than in Classic.
Getting a maxed out character in Classic requires a lot more time and effort than in retail.

[Elias01]

No, I am not wrong. If world quests had reliably enough good rewards, mythic raiders would do them. I didn't do a single gear rewarding WQ in Legion or BFA past the first week of expansion release. Because the gear is shit.

Most mythic raiders pretty much don't even bother doing Heroic at some point, because guess what: The only reliable way to get the best gear in the game is to do the hardest content in the game.

Getting a maxed out character in BFA requires a lot more player skill than in Classic.
Getting a maxed out character in Classic requires a lot more time and effort than in retail.

And getting maxes out character should take time, skill and effort.

[Fearlof]

Hm, lets check OP's post history...

Posted 2019-08-01: "I won't be playing Classic because it is an objectively bad game that will dead only a year or so after launch."

Shocking, another person hating on classic and making false posts about how they came to the realization that it was a bad game after playing it, while claiming that they were looking forward to it soooo much.

What is wrong with you OP? Let people who want to play classic enjoy it, it doesnt affect you in any way and posting bullshit like this is honestly just sad.

Hahaha... Well done sir

So many people hating on classic on these forums.

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I have to admit,

Blizzard was correct. I did think I wanted Classic, I followed Classic news every single day and even took off work to play it on day 1. However, after playing to level 15 and putting about 15 hours into the game the nostalgia completely wore off.

Classic is not a good game. The mob mechanics are outdated with bad AI, the graphics are really really bad, the quests are so boring and bland (pick up x, kill z, talk to y) with no justification to be doing anything no cool story, the game design is horrible (quests sending you to an area and then walking back and then another quest sends you back to the area or having to go back and forth to deliver a letter to someone 5 feet away?), the UI elements are so lacking (no HP showing? Quest tracking inconsistent, node tracking inconsistent, etc), the game is slow for no reason (i.e. having to kill 55 boars for 4 livers?). Really it's so boring, there is no appeal to this game.

Anyway,
I have to give it to Blizzard, I did forget how bad Classic actually was and I do say that retail is much better.

I suspect in the coming weeks the nostalgia will wear off for everyone (it seems to be already happening as full servers on day one are medium or low now) so players are dropping off like flies and this will just have been a big waste of development that could have been done to make retail much better.

How would they ever be able to make retail better? They failed the last 10 years or so xD Even if blizzard had unlimited amount of money they couldnt fix the mistakes they already did. WoW is a dying, and thats how it is. We had our glory days, now just enjoy what we got please.

[Frozenbro]

And getting maxes out character should take time, skill and effort.

Except getting a bis character in classic takes no skill, get your facts straight, it takes more time than retail, but no more skill cause you actually have to do mythic progression on retail, and lets just not compare classic raids with retail mythic raids, dont wanna make classic diehard fans sad.

[Fearlof]

No, I am not wrong. If world quests had reliably enough good rewards, mythic raiders would do them. I didn't do a single gear rewarding WQ in Legion or BFA past the first week of expansion release. Because the gear is shit.

Most mythic raiders pretty much don't even bother doing Heroic at some point, because guess what: The only reliable way to get the best gear in the game is to do the hardest content in the game.

Getting a maxed out character in BFA requires a lot more player skill than in Classic.
Getting a maxed out character in Classic requires a lot more time and effort than in retail.

Let me tell you something what you call "SKILL" Is not a thing in WoW. Skill is something u see in compeating video games like CSGO / Dota2 / LoL.
WoW isnt a compeating video game at all. And its not supposed to be so, its an MMORPG.

[Frozenbro]

Let me tell you something what you call "SKILL" Is not a thing in WoW. Skill is something u see in compeating video games like CSGO / Dota2 / LoL.
WoW isnt a compeating video game at all. And its not supposed to be so, its an MMORPG.

It's not, i agree, but the skill of a cutting edge player compared to an LFR player is nowhere close, and to the same extent, cutting edge retail player vs classic player.

[Sezh]

Let me tell you something what you call "SKILL" Is not a thing in WoW. Skill is something u see in compeating video games like CSGO / Dota2 / LoL.
WoW isnt a compeating video game at all. And its not supposed to be so, its an MMORPG.

How many Cutting Edge achievements do you have?

[Fearlof]

It's not, i agree, but the skill of a cutting edge player compared to an LFR player is nowhere close, and to the same extent, cutting edge retail player vs classic player.

Again people raiding LFR made a choice to do so, because they didnt want to invest all their time in the game. Is skill really just time investment? No.

[Frozenbro]

Again people raiding LFR made a choice to do so, because they didnt want to invest all their time in the game. Is skill really just time investment? No.

Not bashing on LFR players, im on the "idc if LFR exists or not" side, but dont come to me with the "they can be skilled players but they choose to do LFR cause time" crap, if they want to do LFR, good for them, but dont act like they "could" be good, either you are good or you arent, thats all there is.