Can we all now agree that Vanilla wasn't harder?

[Tyze]

Dont get me wrong, leveling is much harder (well.. slower) than retail.


But all this "Raids were harder" or "You actually needed to CC mobs in dungeons!"
Dont, its false. Yeah CC to some degree, but NOT nearly as much as in retail wow with mythic +.


Please dont use the argument "Classic isn't Vanilla" nothing changed dungeon wise.

[Grimbolt]

Yup talent changes have no impact on the game at all. Absolutely true. Also this has been discussed to death by now its time to move on and stop trying to stur up shit and play whatever you want to play and stop worrying about others.

[Absintheminded]

To put it in perspective, the current content is being completed with a catch-up patch’s tuning across the board. That includes classes, bosses, combat mechanics, etc. 1.12 is very different from all the patches before it.

[Tyze]

And also, leveling is not harder, it is just slower with an overall slower gameplay..

Yeah I agree on that

[Snackpack]

Not really an issue since the vast majority of classic players have said that classic raids are easier.

[Khuzog]

Currently leveling a Holy Paladin in a group, my first five talent points thus far have given me 2 intellect or 20 mana.

Man I sure am glad we have these back. Can you imagine not being able to immerse yourself into this level of customization? Imagine if I had a choice of three new abilities by now, that'd just lead me to some cookie cutter bullshit.

[Caperfin]

I don't believe anyone claimed WoW Vanilla is harder. It's 15 years old after all...

[Seranthor]

Dont get me wrong, leveling is much harder (well.. slower) than retail.


But all this "Raids were harder" or "You actually needed to CC mobs in dungeons!"
Dont, its false. Yeah CC to some degree, but NOT nearly as much as in retail wow with mythic +.


Please dont use the argument "Classic isn't Vanilla" nothing changed dungeon wise.

World of Warcraft never was hard, ever.

[Tyze]

I don't believe anyone claimed WoW Vanilla is harder. It's 15 years old after all...

Many.. Many did this.. Haven't heard "I played wow when it was hard?"

[Oakshana]

Dont get me wrong, leveling is much harder than retail.


But all this "Raids were harder" or "You actually needed to CC mobs in dungeons!"
Dont, its false. Yeah CC to some degree, but NOT nearly as much as in retail wow with mythic +.


Please dont use the argument "Classic isn't Vanilla" nothing changed dungeon wise.

It was harder. And Classic isn't TRULY the Vanilla experience. Well.... maybe leveling it is.

Here is my argument why.

1. You are playing the game at 1.12, which is VERY different in terms of power creep than launch to 1.10. They had done sweeping balance changes throughout the course of prior patches and spent time re-doing all of the classes. Pretty much each class had a re-tool, almost one per patch prior to 1.12. And by the time 1.12 hit, they had also balanced the stats, which made much of the game easier by comparison. At 1.12, your mana and health regen at a colossally faster rate than prior out of combat.

2. Raids were new to all of us, we were different players. There wasn't really anything much outside of WoW like it. And the debuffs and boss fights were basically just DPS checks each time with very little complicated mechanics. So, combine that with the earlier patches and yes... those raids were a LOT harder than they are now.

Most peoples memories are also rose-coloured glasses.

[Gardoc]

Currently leveling a Holy Paladin in a group, my first five talent points thus far have given me 2 intellect or 20 mana.

Man I sure am glad we have these back. Can you imagine not being able to immerse yourself into this level of customization? Imagine if I had a choice of three new abilities by now, that'd just lead me to some cookie cutter bullshit.

Yeah it is so much better to choose one of the three pruned abilities that used to be baseline. /s

[vitor210]

Dont get me wrong, leveling is much harder (well.. slower) than retail.


But all this "Raids were harder" or "You actually needed to CC mobs in dungeons!"
Dont, its false. Yeah CC to some degree, but NOT nearly as much as in retail wow with mythic +.


Please dont use the argument "Classic isn't Vanilla" nothing changed dungeon wise.

yeah good luck doing higher level dungeons with no cc. Healer and tank will enjoy that. And no, doing Ragefire Chasm with no CCs doesn't mean any other dungeon is the same.

[Kookster]

Levling is harder, and slower. But i died more in classic wow these 2 weeks then all of bfa. Open world is cleary more difficult than retail.

Dungeons and Raids are not harder, mechanical they are very very easy. But you can get overwhelmed pretty fast if you failpull. There are not as many big CD's or DMG on call buttons like in retail to solve an unexpected problem . I would also say healer mana is more important. Tank and DDs' do not have as much selfheal like in retail.

[A Chozo]

I don't believe anyone claimed WoW Vanilla is harder. It's 15 years old after all...

I discussed this with someone in another forum. Guy believed Classic's leveling was waaay harder, because in retail a leveling character full with heirlooms could pull several mobs and stay alive - meanwhile in Classic, if they went to an area with mobs 12 lvls stronger, one was enough to kill you!

[Rhila]

Many.. Many did this.. Haven't heard "I played wow when it was hard?"

Ive not read of anyone saying vanilla was harder, they might say its more time consuming and harder int he sense it requires more commitment.

Nobody said it was actually harder, most people on classic forums expected rag to die by week 2 max, and everyone knew dungeons would be easy.

I dont understand why people like you keep posting stuff like this

[Blackmist]

It's only harder in that levelling content gives you groups of mobs, and there's no way to safely pull them if you're on your own. Sure, you might be able to CC one. If it doesn't resist. And then doesn't break out for no reason.

You can't just plough into a group and expect to live. That's the main difference.

[Dudenoso]

Yeah it is so much better to choose one of the three pruned abilities that used to be baseline. /s

That's not an argument against the system's design, it's an argument against the implementation.

To me, it feels bad for the specs that I played before they went full retarded on pruning. It feels good for the specs that I never played before because I never knew what I am missing.

If they rolled back on the ridiculous pruning and got us something else for the abilities it would be overall great IMO.

[Khuzog]

Yeah it is so much better to choose one of the three pruned abilities that used to be baseline. /s

Bestow Faith and Hammer of Light were never baseline. Crusader's Might is a boring passive but also never baseline. Bestow Faith used the same icon as Sacred Shield from back in the day but they're very different.

I realize you didn't feel like trying and were banking on getting sweet high fives from the "yay Classic" crowd but at least either use the class I mentioned in the post or, idk, exert some small amount of effort.

[Caperfin]

Many.. Many did this.. Haven't heard "I played wow when it was hard?"

well... 15years ago, I can kind of agree the game was hard. But not today. I cringe when I hear the word "Hardcore" when referring to Classic.

[Milfshaked]

I see these threads and post all the time but I really fail to see who they are arguing against. I have not met a single person that, both before and after classic release, said that classic raiding was harder. Where is this boogeyman that people like OP seems to be arguing against? Even if one or two exists, they are in an extreme minority and not worth writing a post about. Every person that I know that played vanilla have agreed that vanilla raiding was easier.