Poll: Rate the movie STAR WARS™: The Rise of Skywalker™

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  1. #1641
    Immortal Darththeo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darknessvamp View Post
    I'd rather not get another movie that tries to "explain why a character is who they are" after Solo, especially if they also try and fix other films at the same time. If anything I would like them to step away from the original saga and try to do something with the rest of universe. I mean the Exchange, Cartels and Cut throat Corporations in their own war in the aftermath of the Republic's collapse could be an interesting setting for a movie if done well.
    Well, Solo's production was a mess.
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  2. #1642
    The Unstoppable Force Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by segara82 View Post
    Wrong!
    We have gladly accepted female fans and characters, just look at Mara Jade, Ahsoka Tano, Jaina Solo, Aayla Secura, Mission Vao, Qwi Xux, Jan Ors and many other more.
    What we do complain about is bad writing, shitty characters (both male and female), and changing important parts of the canon.

    So fuck of with your attempts to derail this with using the misogynist-card.
    Bad writing I get but what important parts of canon were changed?

  3. #1643
    The Lightbringer Darknessvamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darththeo View Post
    Well, Solo's production was a mess.
    True but can we just excuse how poor the film is because of that? Especially after Rogue One and The Last Jedi.

    Quote Originally Posted by Daemos daemonium View Post
    Bad writing I get but what important parts of canon were changed?
    It may be an issue of personal preference but:
    Rogue One changes quite a bit of A New Hope and some other things namely the Rebels are introduced to be just as bad as the Empire, the Rogue Squadron was based on the Rogue One group rather than just founded by Luke, the Death Star's "weak point" was intentional rather than something of the original design that was discovered and exploited by the Rebels, the ending changes the context of the opening attack on Princess Leia's ship in ANH as well as contradicts both Darth Vader's reason for boarding the ship and Leia's deception not making sense and that Hyperspace Tracking was a thing.
    Solo doesn't really do much to the canon other than make Han Solo less interesting as well as emphasis that fuel is for some reason now a rare commodity viable for black market trade more so than it appears in the other films bar TLJ.
    The Force Awakens isn't so bad (in a vacuum) but it does somewhat invalidate the Empire's Defeat in Return of the Jedi as well messes with the whole "you have to train to use force abilities" with Rey using literal Mind Control even though she didn't believe the Force was even real earlier in the same day.
    The Last Jedi breaks all space logic from previous films relating to Space Combat, Ship Systems and Fuel, Hyperdrive use, Ship Damage (e.g. ships get torn in half and not only do they not explode, the people on board of them are able to still breath and order invasions) and Hyperspace Tracking (introduced by Rogue One so this movie could use it). Then of course there's Leia's canon experience as a general being called into question with her decisions in the film, issues with the "Training" Rey receives and the Resistance being reintroduced as something you must die for (Rose Tico telling Finn that she was tasked with stopping deserters from escaping and having dealt with a number already).
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  4. #1644
    The Unstoppable Force Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darknessvamp View Post
    It may be an issue of personal preference but:
    Rogue One changes quite a bit of A New Hope and some other things namely the Rebels are introduced to be just as bad as the Empire, the Rogue Squadron was based on the Rogue One group rather than just founded by Luke, the Death Star's "weak point" was intentional rather than something of the original design that was discovered and exploited by the Rebels, the ending changes the context of the opening attack on Princess Leia's ship in ANH as well as contradicts both Darth Vader's reason for boarding the ship and Leia's deception not making sense and that Hyperspace Tracking was a thing.
    I keep forgetting rouge one is a thing because of how bad it was, ya that one did alot of canon changing. though i don't think hypserspace tracking counts as its a project they were working on not one they had finished i think.

    Solo doesn't really do much to the canon other than make Han Solo less interesting as well as emphasis that fuel is for some reason now a rare commodity viable for black market trade more so than it appears in the other films bar TLJ.
    I don't quite think this counts as a canon change as we never really get told how affordable fuel is for lesser folk or how tight the empire holds onto it, but i could be wrong i don't look to deep into ship stuff in starwars.

    The Force Awakens isn't so bad (in a vacuum) but it does somewhat invalidate the Empire's Defeat in Return of the Jedi as well messes with the whole "you have to train to use force abilities" with Rey using literal Mind Control even though she didn't believe the Force was even real earlier in the same day.
    an off shoot form a fallen empire don't invalidate any thing, the canon wasn't change. as far as force abilitys go we already knew it was possible to use them without training what rey does is on a grander scale but it doesn't change that most force users have been used the force without training since empire.

    The Last Jedi breaks all space logic from previous films relating to Space Combat, Ship Systems and Fuel, Hyperdrive use, Ship Damage (e.g. ships get torn in half and not only do they not explode, the people on board of them are able to still breath and order invasions) and Hyperspace Tracking (introduced by Rogue One so this movie could use it). Then of course there's Leia's canon experience as a general being called into question with her decisions in the film, issues with the "Training" Rey receives and the Resistance being reintroduced as something you must die for (Rose Tico telling Finn that she was tasked with stopping deserters from escaping and having dealt with a number already).
    as far as ship stuff goes i kinda have to skip it as i don't really go into ships as space is boring. but hyperspace tracking isn't a change of canon its just an advancement of tech. Leia didn't really do any thing that hurts the canon. rey's "training" also doesn't do any thing to the canon sure its not alot but rey isn't doing any thing amazing force wise other then that first mindtrick. though the rose part either is a canon fall or something she just did her self because shes insane.

  5. #1645
    Quote Originally Posted by eschatological View Post
    That's the point, Yoda would never use a lightsaber.
    ZERO chance of that happening. Most of the Star Wars fanbase come to see the lightsaber battles. You can't bring back Yoda in the prequels and then NOT have him in a lightsaber duel. You just can't.
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  6. #1646
    Quote Originally Posted by Kokolums View Post
    ZERO chance of that happening. Most of the Star Wars fanbase come to see the lightsaber battles. You can't bring back Yoda in the prequels and then NOT have him in a lightsaber duel. You just can't.
    You could, and it would look infinitely less comedic. People werent in awe of master Yoda dueling, they were laughing their ass off at the sight of green midget jumping around like if he was on crack.

  7. #1647
    Quote Originally Posted by Kokolums View Post
    ZERO chance of that happening. Most of the Star Wars fanbase come to see the lightsaber battles. You can't bring back Yoda in the prequels and then NOT have him in a lightsaber duel. You just can't.
    Those are people who suck at Star Warsing, then. I imagine those same people think the Duel of the Fates between Maul and Qui Gon/Obi Wan was masterful.

  8. #1648
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eschatological View Post
    Those are people who suck at Star Warsing, then. I imagine those same people think the Duel of the Fates between Maul and Qui Gon/Obi Wan was masterful.
    I really think people should go back and watch the Original Trilogy, because it is not filled with epic athletic lightsaber battles. There's a lot more cautious circling than attacking.

    The "look at my spinny glow stick" bullshit started with the prequels.

    I'd have to watch RotJ again to see if the Emperor ever actually uses his saber, but it certainly isn't a lot even if he does. He's mostly just being ominous or blasting Force Lightning out of his fingers.
    Last edited by Endus; 2019-09-10 at 05:13 PM.


  9. #1649
    Quote Originally Posted by eschatological View Post
    Those are people who suck at Star Warsing, then. I imagine those same people think the Duel of the Fates between Maul and Qui Gon/Obi Wan was masterful.
    Duel of the Fates was masterful. You had the stark contrast between Qui Gon meditating, Maul pacing back and forth, while Obi Wan was still the impatient youngster, somewhat in between the two attitudes. Obi Wan was helpless as his master is killed in front of him. Hes losing as he starts to give in to his anger, and his calm refocusing while hes hanging over this pit of death. You have his promise to train Anikan, even though he agrees with the council. Its almost like it was trying to tell a story, but nah it should have just subverted expectations and been directionless.

  10. #1650
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    I really think people should go back and watch the Original Trilogy, because it is not filled with epic athletic lightsaber battles. There's a lot more cautious circling than attacking.

    The "look at my spinny glow stick" bullshit started with the prequels.

    I'd have to watch RotJ again to see if the Emperor ever actually uses his saber, but it certainly isn't a lot even if he does. He's mostly just being ominous or blasting Force Lightning out of his fingers.


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  11. #1651
    Banned Kontinuum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Verdugo View Post
    You said it, brother. Wait, YOU said that?

  12. #1652
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post

    I'd have to watch RotJ again to see if the Emperor ever actually uses his saber, but it certainly isn't a lot even if he does. He's mostly just being ominous or blasting Force Lightning out of his fingers.

    The way The Emperor talks about the lightsaber "The jedi weapon" makes it seem like they are bullshit tools he has outgrown long ago. Like Yoda, who never trains Luke to use a lightsaber. Ever. The only time Luke uses a lightsaber on Dagobah is in the Cave and Yoda explicitly tells him to put it down.

  13. #1653
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jotaux View Post
    Duel of the Fates was masterful. You had the stark contrast between Qui Gon meditating, Maul pacing back and forth, while Obi Wan was still the impatient youngster, somewhat in between the two attitudes. Obi Wan was helpless as his master is killed in front of him. Hes losing as he starts to give in to his anger, and his calm refocusing while hes hanging over this pit of death. You have his promise to train Anikan, even though he agrees with the council. Its almost like it was trying to tell a story, but nah it should have just subverted expectations and been directionless.
    The stuff you're talking about has nothing to do with the spinny-bouncy lightsaber combat stuff. You're pointing out that what made that scene was the slow, deliberate pacing, the anticipation, and the surrounding context, not the spinny lightsaber stuff.

    The worst thing to happen to Star Wars was Ray Park. Which I don't say because I hate Ray Park; he's awesome. But they kept trying to make everyone else fight like Darth Maul, with tons of spinny bullshit, and nobody but Park was able to pull it off, so those scenes all look fucking ridiculous. Even Obi-wan and Qui-Gonn in the Duel of the Fates look ridiculous.


  14. #1654
    Quote Originally Posted by Jotaux View Post
    Duel of the Fates was masterful. You had the stark contrast between Qui Gon meditating, Maul pacing back and forth, while Obi Wan was still the impatient youngster, somewhat in between the two attitudes. Obi Wan was helpless as his master is killed in front of him. Hes losing as he starts to give in to his anger, and his calm refocusing while hes hanging over this pit of death.
    And then it turns into another soulless choreography.

  15. #1655
    I'm sorry, I felt like A) the whole Meditation vs. Pacing thing was too on-the-nose and preachy, especially for a Jedi who had just recently used the Force to cheat at gambling, B) Obi Wan's anger was out of character for him seeing as he had been trying to push Qui Gon away and question him the whole movie, C) his subsequent calm attitude AFTER Qui Gon was downed was like, when he should have been super angry, D) it was a dumb promise to ask by Qui Gon because he knew what the Council would say and he knew already there was resentment in Anakin, and D) it was a dumb promise to keep by Obi Wan as he was expressly forbidden from doing it by a Council who made a measured, rational decision as opposed to the guy dying on the floor putting his entire faith into a kid he knew practically nothing about. I was 19 when TPM came out, and even I could spot those flaws at the time.

    Forget even then how disastrous the actual lightsaber fight was.

    If that's your idea of "masterful" storytelling, idk what to tell you.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Edit: Like honestly, I don't see how anyone comes out of TPM thinking Qui Gon Jin is a hero or smart or a good Jedi Master mentor for Obi Wan. He spends the whole movie talking down to people, manipulating anything to get what he wants, defying the system his own order has put in place, etc.

  16. #1656
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eschatological View Post
    I'm sorry, I felt like A) the whole Meditation vs. Pacing thing was too on-the-nose and preachy, especially for a Jedi who had just recently used the Force to cheat at gambling, B) Obi Wan's anger was out of character for him seeing as he had been trying to push Qui Gon away and question him the whole movie, C) his subsequent calm attitude AFTER Qui Gon was downed was like, when he should have been super angry, D) it was a dumb promise to ask by Qui Gon because he knew what the Council would say and he knew already there was resentment in Anakin, and D) it was a dumb promise to keep by Obi Wan as he was expressly forbidden from doing it by a Council who made a measured, rational decision as opposed to the guy dying on the floor putting his entire faith into a kid he knew practically nothing about. I was 19 when TPM came out, and even I could spot those flaws at the time.
    Just some of many things the prequels fuck up;

    Qui-Gonn is really not a good person, as his use of the Jedi Mind Trick for convenience shows. He's trying to use his magic powers to cheat and steal.

    Obi-Wan seems to struggle with anger once, there, and then basically never again; it's a Chekov's gun they never fire.

    Edit: Like honestly, I don't see how anyone comes out of TPM thinking Qui Gon Jin is a hero or smart or a good Jedi Master mentor for Obi Wan. He spends the whole movie talking down to people, manipulating anything to get what he wants, defying the system his own order has put in place, etc.
    Liam Neeson. That's why.

    It's like people thinking the guy from Taken is a good father. Why? He's Liam Neeson. That's basically it. Let's ignore his putting his family in constant danger.


  17. #1657
    Quote Originally Posted by eschatological View Post
    Edit: Like honestly, I don't see how anyone comes out of TPM thinking Qui Gon Jin is a hero or smart or a good Jedi Master mentor for Obi Wan. He spends the whole movie talking down to people, manipulating anything to get what he wants, defying the system his own order has put in place, etc.

    People aren't going to think that because I'm pretty sure they liked Qui Gon for the fact that he wasn't a hero or the "perfect" Jedi Master.

  18. #1658
    The Unstoppable Force Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Just some of many things the prequels fuck up;

    Qui-Gonn is really not a good person, as his use of the Jedi Mind Trick for convenience shows. He's trying to use his magic powers to cheat and steal.

    Obi-Wan seems to struggle with anger once, there, and then basically never again; it's a Chekov's gun they never fire.
    Proabbly the worse thing that happened to the prequels (other then existing in the first place) is that they made the clone wars which doesn’t line up at all with how poorly done the prequels were.

  19. #1659
    Man, let's not even look too closely at the Clone Wars. That movie was.....horrific.

    1) So you're telling me an exiled former Jedi named Sifo-Dyas is creating a secret army of clones for..........some reason, pretending to have the Jedi Council and Galactic Senate's approval.
    2) No one at the clone facility thought to actually check with the Jedi Council/Senate.
    3) Sifo-Dyas was killed by Dooku and Palpatine, and they took over funding of the clone army, and no one questioned it.
    4) Obi Wan discovers the clone army, supposedly built for/by the Jedi.....doesn't question the actual origins of who is pushing this project even though Sifo-Dyas has been dead for years....
    5) The Jedi..........agree to take this clone army? That they knew nothing about, had no part in overseeing, and still don't know who or why funded it...
    6) The Jedi received no backlash from the secret founders so they were like, "Welp, guess the army is ours now, yippee!"?


    It's like George Lucas was sitting there thinking: "Hmmmm, there needs to be a clone army which becomes the Stormtroopers for the Emperor...but the Senate has no standing army, it's just Jedi....and the Trade Federation is entirely reliant on droids.....so let's just make a "secret" clone army that the Emperor is putting together....let's have the Jedi discover and just accept this army with no questions......oh, and let's have a backdoor Order 66 in them so that when Supreme Chancellor wants to go Emperor, he can magically cut off the heads of all the Jedi!" He started at the conclusion and had to jump through hoops to figure it out.

  20. #1660
    And this is why the Clone Wars series exists.

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