[Megathread] Final Fantasy XIV

[Granyala]

Btw I don't enjoy that song either, but I can't imagine hearing it and thinking that it somehow doesn't "pass as "music"".. like what?

I was referring to the actual musicality, structure, complexity etc of the song.
Most songs these days don't qualify as music to my ears b/c they sound like 5 notes repeated for 3 minutes with some clearly untrained (in the classical sense) human yapping some meaningless text.

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This would be somewhat believable if 70-90's weren't filled with absolutely ridiculous songs

Oh absolutely, not much has changed in that regard.

[Baconeggcheese]

I was referring to the actual musicality, structure, complexity etc of the song.
Most songs these days don't qualify as music to my ears b/c they sound like 5 notes repeated for 3 minutes with some clearly untrained (in the classical sense) human yapping some meaningless text.

Oh no I completely understood what you were getting at, I went to school for music theory I've seen plenty of this mentality. Again, I'm glad I grew out of it.

[Granyala]

(Also, I'm probably a little biased since the subject of the video was my boy Emet.)

Emet dancing was entertaining, Aye.

[Wyrt]

I'm surprised you're such a big fan of Zenos, since I've been under the impression most people believe he's a very boring, one dimensional villain. I was kind of upset that he was still alive honestly xD Compared to Emet, he's just very bland. "I have no purpose and just want to destroy everything, for no reason!" Now that's a compelling villain, where have I heard that before? Oh right, literally everywhere :P

Yeah, I don't like Zenos either. He is just not interesting.

I really hope when we inevitably have to fight him again that we just absolutely wipe the floor with him considering we're much stronger now. Just smash him like the insignificant gnat he is and be done with it.

[Katchii]

I was referring to the actual musicality, structure, complexity etc of the song.
Most songs these days don't qualify as music to my ears b/c they sound like 5 notes repeated for 3 minutes with some clearly untrained (in the classical sense) human yapping some meaningless text.

Oh no I completely understood what you were getting at, I went to school for music theory I've seen plenty of this mentality. Again, I'm glad I grew out of it.

Pretty much this. As a musician myself, who grew up learning classical stuff and then got into a band in college as a guitar player I can see both sides.

It's easy to look at a piece of music and go...that's ridiculously simple and probably wasn't that hard to put together and look down on it if that's the case. But from the performance/ entertainment aspect it doesn't NEED to be complicated or be difficult to put together for it to be enjoyed by people in general. I can't tell you the number of times after picking up the guitar where I'd listen to a song I've loved for a LONG time and laugh going "that's so easy, I could play that!" after only playing for a year or two.

How complex something is as a piece of music doesn't define whether something is enjoyable or able to be classified as "real" music.

That said, I still can't understand how people can enjoy some of the stuff they do for similar reasons, it just doesn't sound good to me. So I see where you're coming from. But trying to insinuate that it should or shouldn't be called music is just pretentious.

[Faroth]

Should be able to get Warrior to 70 this week and I'll have all tanks at the same range (GBR is 80), so I can level them alongside one another and save some inventory space.

Unlocked Machinist so I could do the same with it & bard and forgot it starts at 30.... *cries*

All my magic jobs and healing are sub 30.

Dang Amaro reward.... I wants it, though. T-T

[Florena]

You might think, but then again he showed up in a random schmoe's body, with no special attributes, weapons or armor and somehow wiped the floor with another Ascian of the Source. Something that we ourselves just barely managed by the skin of our teeth even with our power, Ardbert's rejoining, all the scions, the Exarch summoning other heroes, the Auracite, and I guess all the light we had?

Apparently because his very soul is now just that powerful?

Why would Elidibus even need to retreat there, it's not like he could be killed in that battle no matter how much better Zenos was at fighting. That entire scene was kinda weird. You'd almost think that Elidibus was just letting it all happen for some other tricky purpose, but then he's monologue-ing on the moon about it as if he's genuinely upset, so that seems unlikely.

To be fair, while Eldibus and Emet-Selch are both unsundered ascians, that doesn't mean that they're of comparable power. While we'd generally think the last one left is the most powerful, it could be that in terms of sheer combat power Emet-Selch is Vegeta and Elidibus is Nappa.

[Katchii]

I think where most people make the error is that they confuse creativity with technical difficulty.

Could someone execute X? Sure.

Did that person think to create X? Apparently not.

The creation is where we really place value, and rightfully so. But some people forget about the creation altogether and get wrapped up in this idea that it's just about executing something. Probably because most people will never actually create anything.

While a fair point, I think it still comes down to complexity. I made the mistake many times when the band I was in first started and we were wiring our own songs where I thought the song had to have so many chord changes and parts to make it unique, amazing or enjoyable, when that's just simply not true.

Your point about creativity is true though, for people who focus on the execution rather than the creation it's easy to completely miss how challenging simply creating something can be.

[Granyala]

But trying to insinuate that it should or shouldn't be called music is just pretentious.

You do realize that I wrote "to my ears", right?
I have no influence on what my ears perceive as musical or not. It's not as if I could convince them to like sth.
To me, the linked video sound like random noises and repeated until you hit ALT+F4.

Playing two instruments myself, I know full well how deceptively simple melodies can sound until you try to play them yourself.

Just as food for thought: at what point would we stop calling sth music? If I intermingle 2 sine waves of different frequencies in a random pattern, would it still be music?

[Remilia]

While a fair point, I think it still comes down to complexity. I made the mistake many times when the band I was in first started and we were wiring our own songs where I thought the song had to have so many chord changes and parts to make it unique, amazing or enjoyable, when that's just simply not true.

Your point about creativity is true though, for people who focus on the execution rather than the creation it's easy to completely miss how challenging simply creating something can be.

It's kind of a mix for me. I am very picky in terms of music and even the aforementioned weird ones in 70s I don't get either.
I get creating something, like making my own recipe, drawing and programming games (albeit briefly on this). However it doesn't mean it will be good or enjoyable or what not. I can commend the act of making something and publishing it, doesn't mean it'll be something I find good. In terms of the one linked, it's what I don't like and find very unappealing cause it's just mainly just overpowering bass, which I get some people like... but... ehh...
I also don't really put a big emphasis on just creating something anyways. If someone makes something bad, it's still going to be bad, you don't get brownie points for making something bad. It may be because I've come mainly from a cooking / culinary background so making your own thing, as everyone that wants to graduate has to anyways, isn't exactly something we get brownie points for. You get judged for your end product.

Unsure if just me but creativity would denote being more unique and playful with the medium as opposed to formulaic. Typically in media more creative things aren't as enjoyed (in the mass) as compared to formulaic ones.


Also been leveling up a tank (finally?). Weird to tank things after not tanking since WotLK.

[Faroth]

I've been working on that, sorta. Almost have every job at 60+, many at 70+. A few at 80. (Not counting crafters/gatherers, which are all 80. Except FSH.)

But damn, some jobs are frankly just boring to level.

Some of them I will get to 50 and just let them hit MSQ roulette while I do stuff on a second monitor and let them level quite slowly. Some of the DPS will maximize FATEs and Trust leveling to get the NPCs leveled up.

I used to do a lot of leveling with beast tribe quests in HW & SB and still using SB ones. Need to remember to do my hunts too. I keep forgetting about those.

There are jobs I have no interest on with my main character and am only leveling them for the reward. I would rather level some of those jobs on alts, to be honest because it fits a character concept I had when making them.

[Baconeggcheese]

You do realize that I wrote "to my ears", right?
I have no influence on what my ears perceive as musical or not.

Then you're not very musically inclined for someone who plays two instruments. I'ma just leave it at that though, you can have the last word there or keep it going with Katchii as this convo is very off topic and there's little value in keeping it going.

[Granyala]

Then you're not very musically inclined for someone who plays two instruments.

What a nonsensical statement.

Every musician has stuff he detests, professional musicians have to play it anyway because for them it's a job.
Luckily I don't have to. There is plenty of stuff out there that is both beautiful and musical to my ears, just because I dislike certain things (like Remilia said: the song in question is mainly overpowering bass) doesn't make me "not musically inclined".

BTW: don't act all high and mighty regarding the off topic nature of this discussion, it was you who started it.

[Remilia]

Honestly, almost any kind of creation trumps just executing what's been done before. Even if that means combining existing things into something new, as is often the case with music.

Sure, we can sit back and say, "But that's easy!" or "I coulda done that!" every time someone invents something new, makes a new song, has a new idea, writes a new story, but clearly we didn't or we'd be doing it. No matter how basic it seems.

No where did I say that about saying that? I just don't give much credence to people creating something just cause they did. No where did I say anything about "I could've done that" or "it's easy".

[Katchii]

You do realize that I wrote "to my ears", right?
I have no influence on what my ears perceive as musical or not. It's not as if I could convince them to like sth.
To me, the linked video sound like random noises and repeated until you hit ALT+F4.

Playing two instruments myself, I know full well how deceptively simple melodies can sound until you try to play them yourself.

Just as food for thought: at what point would we stop calling sth music? If I intermingle 2 sine waves of different frequencies in a random pattern, would it still be music?

What a nonsensical statement.

Every musician has stuff he detests, professional musicians have to play it anyway because for them it's a job.
Luckily I don't have to. There is plenty of stuff out there that is both beautiful and musical to my ears, just because I dislike certain things (like Remilia said: the song in question is mainly overpowering bass) doesn't make me "not musically inclined".

BTW: don't act all high and mighty regarding the off topic nature of this discussion, it was you who started it.

Never meant to insinuate that having the opinion in and of itself is bad or pretentious (it is a little...but maybe elitist is a better word) but SAYING it out loud is IMO quite pretentious. Everyone obviously has things they like and don't like for various reasons, I just think statements like that are pointless and serve no purpose except to highlight your (general your) elitist view, or make you sound superior, which just makes you look like a twat IMO.

No where did I say that about saying that? I just don't give much credence to people creating something just cause they did. No where did I say anything about "I could've done that" or "it's easy".

Simply creating something is not really anything special, creating something that people like is. Even if you (general you) don't like something, you should still be able to recognize that other people do and at least respect the creator for having the skill and ability to make something other people enjoy.

[Granyala]

Never meant to insinuate that having the opinion in and of itself is bad or pretentious (it is a little...but maybe elitist is a better word) but SAYING it out loud is IMO quite pretentious. Everyone obviously has things they like and don't like for various reasons, I just think statements like that are pointless and serve no purpose except to highlight your (general your) elitist view, or make you sound superior, which just makes you look like a twat IMO.

People are free to state if they dislike sth.
Just b/c sth is a mainstream hit, doesn't mean it's a paragon of quality.

Yes I know it comes across as snobby/edgy but what can I say: my ears apparently ARE snobs. I'm very happy that we have no blaring radio at work, I'd be tempted to come up with 10000 ways to destroy the darn thing and execute half of them. (Making it look like an accident of course)

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Simply creating something is not really anything special, creating something that people like is. Even if you (general you) don't like something, you should still be able to recognize that other people do and at least respect the creator for having the skill and ability to make something other people enjoy.

Humans are WILDLY different. It's pretty irrelevant what you create, someone is bound to like it.
Just look at modern art. Boggles my mind, doesn't compute but people go nuts over it.

[Katchii]

People are free to state if they dislike sth.
Just b/c sth is a mainstream hit, doesn't mean it's a paragon of quality.

Yes I know it comes across as snobby/edgy but what can I say: my ears apparently ARE snobs. I'm very happy that we have no blaring radio at work, I'd be tempted to come up with 10000 ways to destroy the darn thing and execute half of them. (Making it look like an accident of course)

People can be snobs, people can be elitist, that isn't the problem. Being an elitist or a "snob" isn't inherently bad, those are the kinds of people that usually drive higher quality things within their genre. It's when they announce to the world that they are a snob and an elitist and that other forms of things they deal are "less than" when people take issue with it, and for good reason IMO. Talking down to something serves no other purpose than to try and tell the world you're above it. If someone is truly above it, they just ARE above it, they don't need to convince or announce to anybody else that they are.

Some opinions, while obviously 100% valid, don't need to be made public information. Nothing good comes from some of them, and this is one of those situations IMO.

Humans are WILDLY different. It's pretty irrelevant what you create, someone is bound to like it.
Just look at modern art. Boggles my mind, doesn't compute but people go nuts over it.

I don't understand modern art either, and after having a discussion about it with someone who is a HUGE fan, it's even more mind boggling. According to him, it's not really even about the art it's about the state of mind of the artist at the time and the kinds of things they're trying to evoke in the viewer/consumer. The actual piece of art could be literal garbage, but because of the context of it and what the artist was trying to convey with it...it's not the art, it's the story and feelings of why the piece is what it is. In short...it's a conversation starter about whatever topic the artist wants people to have based on that art piece. It has very little, if anything, to do with how complicated, complex, etc...it is.

I think they're all nutcases, specifically the people who willingly spend the money on that stuff. Doesn't mean I can't respect the artist for doing what they do, even if I will never really appreciate they're "thing" I can appreciate the fact that they're making a living from it.

[Granyala]

I think they're all nutcases, specifically the people who willingly spend the money on that stuff. Doesn't mean I can't respect the artist for doing what they do, even if I will never really appreciate they're "thing" I can appreciate the fact that they're making a living from it.

You mean "I can appreciate the fact that they're making a killing from it."
Last time I checked, these artworks are bloody expensive, once your name is known.

I'll be honest though: I cannot see them as artists (don't ask me why, I just can't). I see them as clever people that exploit trends. Business people, if you so will. The lady that made the annoying song falls into that category.

[Remilia]

Nor did I say you specifically did? You're not the only other person in the world, ya know.

Why quote me and use the inclusive we then? Seeing as it has no bearing to what I said then.

[Katchii]

You mean "I can appreciate the fact that they're making a killing from it."
Last time I checked, these artworks are bloody expensive, once your name is known.

I'll be honest though: I cannot see them as artists (don't ask me why, I just can't). I see them as clever people that exploit trends. Business people, if you so will. The lady that made the annoying song falls into that category.

Depending on the "artist," I wouldn't say they're making a killing. On each art piece maybe, but are they creating and selling enough to "make a killing" in general...I'm not sure. I understated it to emphasize that as long as they're able to live decently off of their work, they're doing pretty good.

Call them whatever you want though, the title doesn't really have any impact on the fact that they're successful at it. I'll at least give them props for that. They're obviously doing SOMETHING right. Whether an individual appreciates that "something" is irrelevant, but they should still be able to appreciate, or at least acknowledge, their success.