[EU] Brexit negotiations at a standstill

[Gibblewink]

In other fun news the nominate for trade commissioner is Phil Hogan of Ireland, a known vocal critic of Brexit.

[Demolitia]

Without Bercow it is unlikely that parliament will have such an easy task seizing control from the government in future and it possible that there will be an election which returns a majority for Johnson meaning that parliament will not get another opportunity to request another one.

It is now or never in terms of spine growing.

Wouldn't it depend on who is replacing Bercow? Or do you mean somebody with less xp, regardless of their view, will have a harder time moderating through the bullshit?

[Acidbaron]

The UK is costing everyone time, energy and money right now. But sure, that's fine

Something some people of the UK don't fully grasp, yes leaving now is disastrous for them but keeping the EU market now the economy is no longer growing as fast in insecurity makes the Brexit debacle something that costs valuable time and money spend elsewhere on actual important matters for the EU and its citizens.

Each day the brexit doesn't happen or actual talks don't take place is time and money wasted for both sides.

I want the EU to spend more time on how the EU looks at international relationships, how to deal with future disasters from climate change being it economic, natural or even from immigration. How to build a more robust economy for both north and south. How we can combine our military efforts so we spend money smarter rather than just going bigger and larger. How we deal with the discontent and disconnect between politics and people, how that inspires people to vote for more extremist ideologies.

All of those, vastly more important than the brexit long term, considering it is now being steered into a no deal.

[Demolitia]

In other fun news the nominate for trade commissioner is Phil Hogan of Ireland, a known vocal critic of Brexit.

That's another story for another thread probably, but I'm really not happy with Rovana Plumb's appointment. Romania has not been famous for producing brilliant politicians well ... ever, but that one is a frightening example of ineptitude, by all metrics.

[Elegiac]

You’re obviously unused to our system of exploring all options. There’s still 7 weeks until Brexit Day. That’s an eternity in politics.

There is no reason to rush to nuclear options. You’re panicking while calmer heads are still working.

We are currently nearing the end of the second Brexit extension, which I will remind you was an extension of a date set two years after the referendum itself. An extension that was granted entirely by the good graces of the EU and by no virtue of your "calmer heads".

That's longer than an entire American legislative session. That you have achieved fuck all in the meantime on an issue as emergent as Brexit is extremely damning.

[Demolitia]

Something some people of the UK don't fully grasp, yes leaving now is disastrous for them but keeping the EU market now the economy is no longer growing as fast in insecurity makes the Brexit debacle something that costs valuable time and money spend elsewhere on actual important matters for the EU and its citizens.

Each day the brexit doesn't happen or actual talks don't take place is time and money wasted for both sides.

I want the EU to spend more time on how the EU looks at international relationships, how to deal with future disasters from climate change being it economic, natural or even from immigration. How to build a more robust economy for both north and south. How we can combine our military efforts so we spend money smarter rather than just going bigger and larger. How we deal with the discontent and disconnect between politics and people, how that inspires people to vote for more extremist ideologies.

All of those, vastly more important than the brexit long term, considering it is now being steered into a no deal.

What I find scary for the UK is that there are no formal talks for financial services. Yes, there are back alley arrangement and deals with the EBA and ESMA, but that should be the UK's primary concern together with securing a supply of medicine and medical radioactive materials. Not dutch flowers, german cars and Parmesan cheese.

[Acidbaron]

In other fun news the nominate for trade commissioner is Phil Hogan of Ireland, a known vocal critic of Brexit.

I don't believe his nationality really comes into play or his stance on Brexit, being opposed to the brexit is kind of the norm in the EU. Only a few nutjobs who still use "globalists" as an insult believe otherwise.

Frans Timmermans also seems like a good pick for the climate issue.

Overall happy with the EU appointees. Except the one from Belgium, that is just career politician who really didn't achieve all that much and got a golden handshake from national politics, his luck it was voted in by a minority government in where the PM is held by his party.

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What I find scary for the UK is that there are no formal talks for financial services. Yes, there are back alley arrangement and deals with the EBA and ESMA, but that should be the UK's primary concern together with securing a supply of medicine and medical radioactive materials. Not dutch flowers, german cars and Parmesan cheese.

It makes sense if you accept that the people in parliament for the Brexit are not your regular people, but the upper class, the stiff lips who distance themselves from the proletarians who they find beneath them.

Those with the means to do so have already prepared to either make money from it all or simply secured their assets, as for medical care. Bought of it can be easily acquired in the EU or US if you have the means.

The conservatives in the UK is not the party of the working class, but that of posh nobodies that inherited money and position. Why the people of the UK even stand for a construct of the house of lords is beyond me it is something that should have been dismantled last century.

[Elegiac]

The conservatives in the UK is not the party of the working class, but that of posh nobodies that inherited money and position. Why the people of the UK even stand for a construct of the house of lords is beyond me it is something that should have been dismantled last century.

Simple.

They want to fuck the Queen.

[Pann]

Wouldn't it depend on who is replacing Bercow? Or do you mean somebody with less xp, regardless of their view, will have a harder time moderating through the bullshit?

Bercow has been pushing convention to, and some would say; past, the limit, it is unlikely that the government would allow someone who is as cavalier as him as his replacement.

[Acidbaron]

Simple.

They want to fuck the Queen.

While it brings a point across jokingly;

No issue with monarchs, we still have ours and they try their best to connect to the people. At least this generation does, they hold no political power.
But when you have institutes like that, that are undemocratic and they have actual influence and power, it does become an issue. Perhaps the UK never went through a crisis like other monarchies did, one of our previous kings refused to sign an abortion law bill as it was too modern for his catholic believes and suddenly we did not have a king for a day and the bill got voted, rest is history.

[Demolitia]

I don't believe his nationality really comes into play or his stance on Brexit, being opposed to the brexit is kind of the norm in the EU. Only a few nutjobs who still use "globalists" as an insult believe otherwise.

Frans Timmermans also seems like a good pick for the climate issue.

Overall happy with the EU appointees. Except the one from Belgium, that is just career politician who really didn't achieve all that much and got a golden handshake from national politics, his luck it was voted in by a minority government in where the PM is held by his party.

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It makes sense if you accept that the people in parliament for the Brexit are not your regular people, but the upper class, the stiff lips who distance themselves from the proletarians who they find beneath them.

Those with the means to do so have already prepared to either make money from it all or simply secured their assets, as for medical care. Bought of it can be easily acquired in the EU or US if you have the means.

The conservatives in the UK is not the party of the working class, but that of posh nobodies that inherited money and position. Why the people of the UK even stand for a construct of the house of lords is beyond me it is something that should have been dismantled last century.

It might not be that easy anymore. I mean, I get my car searched by the "guardia di finanza" at least 4 times a year the italian/slovene border when going back to Slovenia, and virtually everything is cheaper in Slovenia so I'm not sure why they do it.

I get it, french politics and parliament people are also a bunch a people whose dads or friends happen to have influence, but if it came to a french exit of the EU, or a slovene, one, there would at least be "some" talks about securing the biggest chunk of the nation's economy

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Bercow has been pushing convention to, and some would say; past, the limit, it is unlikely that the government would allow someone who is as cavalier as him as his replacement.

Which begs the next question. Who appoints the speaker?
Sorry, too lazy to look it up tonight

[Jessicka]

We are currently nearing the end of the second Brexit extension, which I will remind you was an extension of a date set two years after the referendum itself. An extension that was granted entirely by the good graces of the EU and by no virtue of your "calmer heads".

That's longer than an entire American legislative session. That you have achieved fuck all in the meantime on an issue as emergent as Brexit is extremely damning.

We've only had one extension. I've listed what's still to occur before that deadline, so there is literally no point in acting until that meeting in mid-October is concluded. Ducks just had to be set in rows to clarify what options past that point are available. And it had to be done prior to prorogation.

If Parliament hadn't been prorogued, all this that happened last week would still be being talked about happening.

[Elegiac]

While it brings a point across jokingly;

No issue with monarchs, we still have ours and they try their best to connect to the people. At least this generation does, they hold no political power.
But when you have institutes like that, that are undemocratic and they have actual influence and power, it does become an issue. Perhaps the UK never went through a crisis like other monarchies did, one of our previous kings refused to sign an abortion law bill as it was too modern for his catholic believes and suddenly we did not have a king for a day and the bill got voted, rest is history.

The British monarchy survived into the modern period precisely because it absolved itself of any serious political duties, so you're entirely correct. People in the UK are attached to it simply because of prestige rather than it serving any useful function, theoretical or otherwise.

If actually intervening in politics would challenge the credibility of the monarchy then it kinda defeats the whole "but they're a safeguard against tyranny" argument.

[Demolitia]

We've only had one extension. I've listed what's still to occur before that deadline, so there is literally no point in acting until that meeting in mid-October is concluded. Ducks just had to be set in rows to clarify what options past that point are available. And it had to be done prior to prorogation.

If Parliament hadn't been prorogued, all this that happened last week would still be being talked about happening.

The ducks were the same 6 months ago. The dates have just been pushed. How long are you going to rely on the EU to give you more time to blankly stare at them?

[Elegiac]

We've only had one extension. I've listed what's still to occur before that deadline, so there is literally no point in acting until that meeting in mid-October is concluded. Ducks just had to be set in rows to clarify what options past that point are available. And it had to be done prior to prorogation.

If Parliament hadn't been prorogued, all this that happened last week would still be being talked about happening.

Yet again, you're ignoring the point.

Brexit is past its expiration date. The EU granted a stay of execution entirely of their own volition and due to nothing any member of the British political establishment said or did. We are now more than two years on - again, longer than an entire American legislative session - and on probably one of the biggest national issues facing the UK since decolonization, the vaunted British political establishment has produced fuck all.

Neither you nor parliament are getting why people are outright rejecting your "just hang on they've got matters in hand" rubbish, for some reason. If this is considered sane policy by British standards then that is an indictment of British standards, not of anyone for being "too impatient".

You don't have colonies to strip of their resources and personnel to make up for your shortcomings this time, bub.

[Pann]

We've only had one extension. I've listed what's still to occur before that deadline, so there is literally no point in acting until that meeting in mid-October is concluded. Ducks just had to be set in rows to clarify what options past that point are available. And it had to be done prior to prorogation.

If Parliament hadn't been prorogued, all this that happened last week would still be being talked about happening.

No, we haven't. This will be the third if granted. The first extension was granted in March until April and the second was granted in April until June if we agreed the WA or left without a deal and if neither happened until Oct 31st on the proviso EU elections.

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Which begs the next question. Who appoints the speaker?
Sorry, too lazy to look it up tonight

The speaker is elected - Wikipedia explains it better than I can if you ever feel the need to find out.

[Elegiac]

No, we haven't. This will be the third if granted. The first extension was granted in March until April and the second was granted in April until June if we agreed the WA or until Oct 31st if we held EU elections.

But wait, they need to fully explore every option before "going nuclear".

Here are your options, Britain. You stay, you take May's god awful WA agreement, or you get out entirely. Nobody cares how many Labor or Lib Dem MPs moan about a referendum, nobody cares how much indicative support there is for a customs union.

The EU has made their position clear from the outset. The only thing still in doubt is whether or not the idiots in Westminster will wise up to that fact.

[Demolitia]

The speaker is elected - Wikipedia explains it better than I can if you ever feel the need to find out.

I thought the HoC was electing the speaker, which it seems to do after looking it up. But you said the government wouldn't allow someone like him to be speaker. I don't see how the government could prevent it unless their party have a strong majority?

[Jessicka]

Yet again, you're ignoring the point.

Brexit is past its expiration date. The EU granted a stay of execution entirely of their own volition and due to nothing any member of the British political establishment said or did. We are now more than two years on - again, longer than an entire American legislative session - and on probably one of the biggest national issues facing the UK since decolonization, the vaunted British political establishment has produced fuck all.

Neither you nor parliament are getting why people are outright rejecting your "just hang on they've got matters in hand" rubbish, for some reason. If this is considered sane policy by British standards then that is an indictment of British standards, not of anyone for being "too impatient".

You don't have colonies to strip of their resources and personnel to make up for your shortcomings this time, bub.

In those 2 years since A50 was triggered, the Government didn't negotiate an acceptable deal. In the time since, they continued to do nothing but try to bulldoze through the same deal. Since the last extension, a new Government has formed. It too has failed to do, well, frankly anything of any appreciable value to change the facts. We still have until the new deadline of 31 Oct to do something. There is nothing that actually needs to happen until then, but in the past week, Parliament have taken the failings of the last Government, and this one, and finally actually been able to do something.

Reminder. Parliament had zero say in negotiations. Zero say on anything Brexit until this point.

Now Parliament has had the opportunity to set out its stall. That is all that has happened. They can do no more than this.

It is still up to the Government, who have stated that they expect a deal to be done by 15th Oct. The EU are working also to that schedule.

We could have a deal on 18th Oct. It probably won't be acceptable, but it could in theory be.

After that point, we decide whether to accept it. Or we get an extension.

There is absolutely fuck all to be done until that happens. That's the timeline that is now set.

15th October. Shut up whining about how we need to do something until then. In fact, stay shut up about it until 19th October when we'll know whether or not we'll have an extension.

[Elegiac]

In those 2 years since A50 was triggered, the Government didn't negotiate an acceptable deal. In the time since, they continued to do nothing but try to bulldoze through the same deal. Since the last extension, a new Government has formed. It too has failed to do, well, frankly anything of any appreciable value to change the facts. We still have until the new deadline of 31 Oct to do something. There is nothing that actually needs to happen until then, but in the past week, Parliament have taken the failings of the last Government, and this one, and finally actually been able to do something.

Reminder. Parliament had zero say in negotiations. Zero say on anything Brexit until this point.

> Britain's political system is fiiiiine.
> Parliament had no say in negotiations despite any outcome having to be run by them to have any actual legal force.

Did you wanna take a moment to walk this back, or is this your final answer?

At what point is Britain going to take any accountability for its missteps? *looks at the entire history of the British empire* Probably never, lol. We'll see a Commonwealth of England get admitted back to the EU before that, likely.