[Megathread] Star Citizen

[kenn9530]

We've been talking about the 900 dollar ship that recently came out among the many ridiculous cash shop items that have come out over the years.

And again, we're also talking about a you know, released, complete game. Not an alpha missing TONS of features that have been promised over the years.

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You do realize this mmo has been in development longer than many other MMOs over the years right? 2012-2019, hell let's be generous and say 2014-2019 is still longer than WoW. Many MMOs released in the 4-5 year window and SC isn't even close. Let's also not forget the massive cash shop that has been churning money from whales for a long time. Kickstarter wasn't enough, funding via whales isn't enough, getting money from outside investors isn't enough, release more 900 dollar ships!

His fuckups are not my problem, it is why people should have been wary shoveling money at him due to his track record of feature creep and being taken off of games. They have massively failed at every turn at putting out a game as promised and again, if it comes out by 2021 I'd be shocked.

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"fairly quickly" or just swipe your credit card and cut the line.

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Yeah I'm not even sure what their point was with that one.

you do realise when the game is released you would need to spend thousands buying ingame credit to even buy a freelancer, maybe a few thousand players will have that money to waste.

and this is not a standard MMO in development, games like WoW have been done over and over so times can be a little shorter, trying to compare a sandbox MMO to something like SC is beyond stupid in terms of development time, plus SC is going for AAA which increases development time even further.

[Kyanion]

Then why make it seem like that ship is a must to be able to test/play the game? Your statement is still false. You don't need to "drop tons of money" on it to play it.

*sigh* I hate having to explain jokes when I'm mocking someone. If you've been paying attention to the comments I was referencing then you'd get it. They mentioned the 900 dollar ship multiple times in trying to justify cash grabs Blizz does on their cash shop as if it was the same thing. When the cash shop reference didn't work they switched to like 10 years of sub time vs the 900 dollar ship.

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you do realise when the game is released you would need to spend thousands buying ingame credit to even buy a freelancer, maybe a few thousand players will have that money to waste.

and this is not a standard MMO in development, games like WoW have been done over and over so times can be a little shorter, trying to compare a sandbox MMO to something like SC is beyond stupid in terms of development time, plus SC is going for AAA which increases development time even further.

You're right trying to compare them IS stupid. One of them is released and has been out 15 years and the other has been in development 7 years with no release in sight. Fun fact: Alphas with tons of features missing aren't releases.

[kenn9530]

You're right trying to compare them IS stupid. One of them is released and has been out 15 years and the other has been in development 7 years with no release in sight. Fun fact: Alphas with tons of features missing aren't releases.

your the one who puts a time of development and compares sandbox mmos when they are substantially easier to create, current alpha is miles better than ED and thats a similar game, only thing you cant do is explore the universe but in ED its mostly for show. GTA 5 is a AAA title and that took 5 years to make with 1000 staff, there is a ton more work to do in a game like SC than a traditional sandbox MMO that has been done over and over.

[Kyanion]

your the one who puts a time of development and compares sandbox mmos when they are substantially easier to create, current alpha is miles better than ED and thats a similar game, only thing you cant do is explore the universe but in ED its mostly for show. GTA 5 is a AAA title and that took 5 years to make with 1000 staff, there is a ton more work to do in a game like SC than a traditional sandbox MMO that has been done over and over.

Okay, well we're at 7 years and not even close to a release but I'm sure you'll excuse it in 2022 and it still isn't out yet at the 10 year mark.

[kenn9530]

Okay, well we're at 7 years and not even close to a release but I'm sure you'll excuse it in 2022 and it still isn't out yet at the 10 year mark.

do you have some powers i dont know about seeing the future, SQ42 should be on schedule for beta by the end of next year so there will be a game being pretty much fully released around 1 year from now.

[Kyanion]

do you have some powers i dont know about seeing the future, SQ42 should be on schedule for beta by the end of next year so there will be a game being pretty much fully released around 1 year from now.

Haven't they pushed back some of the dates just recently? I mean it's hard to tell with SC they push back everything. Also SQ42 isn't the fully released game people were after with SC. Sure people will play it and maybe it won't suck but I think most people would rather have the actual game.

Also, beta at the end of 2020 so a release by 2022 maybe, so 10 years for one half of the games? Woah, move over Duke Nukem we may have a serious contender for the crown.

[kenn9530]

Haven't they pushed back some of the dates just recently? I mean it's hard to tell with SC they push back everything. Also SQ42 isn't the fully released game people were after with SC. Sure people will play it and maybe it won't suck but I think most people would rather have the actual game.

Also, beta at the end of 2020 so a release by 2022 maybe, so 10 years for one half of the games? Woah, move over Duke Nukem we may have a serious contender for the crown.

beta is mostly a polishing phase you dont know much about development at all if you think a beta is going to last 2 years, 8-10 years development for a studio with 2-3 times less staff than any other studio for a AAA game is more than reasonable.

It seems you have completely unrealistic expectations of game development, im pretty sure you have not provided one constructive or positive comment at all in this entire thread.

[1001]

you obviously didnt bother reading anything in the kickstarter, it was stated clearly that they wanted to make a AAA game but if funding was not enough they would of made what they could so it would of only been a little better than ED with far fewer ships and not as much detail, without the 100 extra ships available that work would of been put into the game but you would of only had a handful of ships, so it wouldnt have been much of a space game compared to what we are getting now.

Funding was always enough. They had angel investors lined up from day 1, which is where the $23 million figure comes from. Just take a look at the stretch goals on the KS and tell me again that they were going for a basic non-AAA game...

It might not have been "as much" of a space game but at least it would be far more than what it currently is. The only real difference is that the planets are free-roam, previously they were going to have a couple of "hero" stations and some outposts and that would be your traversable area. Most of the real game would take place in space, as it should be with a space game.

It always promised to be far more than something like Elite, this was their claim right from the beginning. I don't know what videos you've been watching to think otherwise.

your not very good at math are you, there are at least 1.7 to 1.8 million who have bough a basic package with around 400-500k accounts with no ships at all, that alone makes just buying the starter package to make up 50% of all the funding, so how can most of the money raised be purely on ship sales.

Bullshit. This is dunning-kruger in action if I ever saw it. Guy claims someone else is not good at something while bringing up completely falsified and unverifiable math...
If you want to make these claims then prove it. These figures simply do not tally up with reality.

There are ~1.5 million paid backers who have all bought the base game(s) for $60 which amounts to $90 million. So where exactly do you think the remaining $150 million comes from? Buying cosmetic gear in the store? No, from ships.

The reality is that CIG bring out concept ship after concept ship, they have ship sale after ship sale. Even the most fanatic people on the subreddit or spectrum would agree that virtually all of CIG's cash comes from ship sales.

Average spent overall per account with a ship would be 130 bucks.

Nonsense. Average spend is a completely useless metric for SC anyway. The only reason people use it is to make the outlandish spending by whales seem less of an issue. When you have a good deal of people spending well over $1000 it completely skews any sort of usefulness from averages.

[nocturnus]

Really, getting these ships is kinda like buying a character boost and five shop mounts before you even install WoW. You can do it, sure. And I can think it's a really stupid decision.

And hell, it makes more sense to buy stuff for WoW still, as it's an actually released game that works, has 15 years of content and plenty of visibility as to the finished product.

Which is why it's so incredibly stupid; essentially it's paying to skip content you claim to enjoy.

[Jastall]

Which is why it's so incredibly stupid; essentially it's paying to skip content you claim to enjoy.

Well in WoW I can sort of understand because, well, 15 years old game and ain't nobody got time to level yet another alt through the same content yet and yet again. I never bought a boost but was glad to use those that came with expansion purchases.

Star Citizen will be a new game when it releases in 2025 or something. I don't see why one would see the need to skip over vast parts of the game and get the juicy rewards right away, unless the gameplay isn't very fun at least. Comparing them with WoW mounts again, part of what I like about my Argus Mythic mount is that me and my guild spent blood, sweat and a few tears to get it. Had I just been able to fork over a hundred dollars for it, it'd be just another thing I bought. Different strokes and all, but still.

[kenn9530]

Funding was always enough. They had angel investors lined up from day 1, which is where the $23 million figure comes from. Just take a look at the stretch goals on the KS and tell me again that they were going for a basic non-AAA game...

It might not have been "as much" of a space game but at least it would be far more than what it currently is. The only real difference is that the planets are free-roam, previously they were going to have a couple of "hero" stations and some outposts and that would be your traversable area. Most of the real game would take place in space, as it should be with a space game.

It always promised to be far more than something like Elite, this was their claim right from the beginning. I don't know what videos you've been watching to think otherwise.




Bullshit. This is dunning-kruger in action if I ever saw it. Guy claims someone else is not good at something while bringing up completely falsified and unverifiable math...
If you want to make these claims then prove it. These figures simply do not tally up with reality.

There are ~1.5 million paid backers who have all bought the base game(s) for $60 which amounts to $90 million. So where exactly do you think the remaining $150 million comes from? Buying cosmetic gear in the store? No, from ships.

The reality is that CIG bring out concept ship after concept ship, they have ship sale after ship sale. Even the most fanatic people on the subreddit or spectrum would agree that virtually all of CIG's cash comes from ship sales.




Nonsense. Average spend is a completely useless metric for SC anyway. The only reason people use it is to make the outlandish spending by whales seem less of an issue. When you have a good deal of people spending well over $1000 it completely skews any sort of usefulness from averages.

It wouldnt be much of a space MMO if you couldnt land on planets also, the stretch goals were there so they can aim for a AAA game, it was only a backup option to create something else if funding proved enough, you have no idea what your talking about.

!.5 million where are you getting these numbers, you claim i have no proof and make up numbers to try and validate your own agenda, there is a CiG financials spreadsheet and the last recorded number of fleet numbers is around 1.7 million and the number of accounts without ships added equals to the total number of citizens, the spreadsheet uses actual data from CiG itself. That 1.7 million value was around 1 year ago so an extra 100k fleet numbers is more than reasonable since.

Average spend is relevant, average player is not going to put more than a few hundred into the game and only a small percentage of players have enough money to put more than 1000 into it.

Even if 90 million was what the starter ship packages made your claim that virtually all money is due to ship sales is still wrong, your giving out false information because you hate star citizen. Also they make 9 million a year that has nothing to do with ship sales or backers but im unsure if that is added in with the total.

[nocturnus]

Well in WoW I can sort of understand because, well, 15 years old game and ain't nobody got time to level yet another alt through the same content yet and yet again. I never bought a boost but was glad to use those that came with expansion purchases.

Star Citizen will be a new game when it releases in 2025 or something. I don't see why one would see the need to skip over vast parts of the game and get the juicy rewards right away, unless the gameplay isn't very fun at least. Comparing them with WoW mounts again, part of what I like about my Argus Mythic mount is that me and my guild spent blood, sweat and a few tears to get it. Had I just been able to fork over a hundred dollars for it, it'd be just another thing I bought. Different strokes and all, but still.

I don't like the boosting thing in WoW either; it makes developers lazy because they can stop making engaging content for low level players. That said, I do understand the need to boost if it's the tenth time you're going through the same content. As you already said, that argument doesn't work for SC though. It's pay to win and there's no rational, honest way to deny this.

[Wilian]

Lol, "everyone who disagree's with me has unrealistic expectations of game development!", meanwhile there goes Chris Roberts giving his own products 2014 release dates , just to have it's beta phase delayed to MAYBE, just maybe, late 2020, but his expectations are so god damn fine that I'll even shill for his company ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

If I was a betting man I'd not assume to even get real alpha out by 2020

[Kyanion]

beta is mostly a polishing phase you dont know much about development at all if you think a beta is going to last 2 years, 8-10 years development for a studio with 2-3 times less staff than any other studio for a AAA game is more than reasonable.

It seems you have completely unrealistic expectations of game development, im pretty sure you have not provided one constructive or positive comment at all in this entire thread.

Translation: Stop being negative at this game in 7 years of development hell. Please leave so we can have a circle jerk here.

[1001]

Something I saw on mmorpg which is quite true here as well. Have you noticed that the fans very rarely (ever?) talk about doing stuff in the game, nothing about finding the best trade routes, the best NPCs to farm, the best places to mine, the best missions you can open up, the best modifications to fit on ships etc. It is almost like no one cares about the gameplay and instead it's all about calling people haters, cooing over screenshots and reposting CIG's marketing blurb.

[Kyanion]

Something I saw on mmorpg which is quite true here as well. Have you noticed that the fans very rarely (ever?) talk about doing stuff in the game, nothing about finding the best trade routes, the best NPCs to farm, the best places to mine, the best missions you can open up, the best modifications to fit on ships etc. It is almost like no one cares about the gameplay and instead it's all about calling people haters, cooing over screenshots and reposting CIG's marketing blurb.

I mean there isn't much gameplay to harp over, so much of it is missing. But don't worry, it's coming! It may take a number of years but those dragons are coming...oh wait...

[Cracked]

Something I saw on mmorpg which is quite true here as well. Have you noticed that the fans very rarely (ever?) talk about doing stuff in the game, nothing about finding the best trade routes, the best NPCs to farm, the best places to mine, the best missions you can open up, the best modifications to fit on ships etc. It is almost like no one cares about the gameplay and instead it's all about calling people haters, cooing over screenshots and reposting CIG's marketing blurb.

This community right now: people asking for gameplay = heavily downvoted, people asking for fish, toilets and clean glass in the ships = heavily Upvoted and gold
https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen...le_asking_for/

The top reply in that thread sums up why.

[MrAnderson]

Something I saw on mmorpg which is quite true here as well. Have you noticed that the fans very rarely (ever?) talk about doing stuff in the game, nothing about finding the best trade routes, the best NPCs to farm, the best places to mine, the best missions you can open up, the best modifications to fit on ships etc. It is almost like no one cares about the gameplay and instead it's all about calling people haters, cooing over screenshots and reposting CIG's marketing blurb.

Well it's a space game,perhaps the one with the most impressive graphics ofc there will be plenty of vistas to share because the same probably also happens with other beautiful space games if you check: /r/EliteDangerous or /r/NoMansSkyTheGame

Does that mean those games have no gameplay either? You reap what you sow, if people only post about bullshit they get labelled as haters because they aren't trying to discuss about the game, instead they are trying to get their preconceived negativism validated.

With that said you'll probably find the more technical information and discussion in the org forums or even spectrum instead of random gaming forums where the majority of posters probably doesn't play the game but loves to shit on the big guy to be edgy.

[MrAnderson]

Yeah, poor sods won’t ever be able to find another job on their miserable lives after you slap that horror of a label on them based on what you deem to be “bullshit” or not.

Out of curiosity, since you seem to like labels so much, what do you label someone who joins a WoW based forum, rushes 10 quick posts over the place and jumps into this thread, and this thread alone, just to post links and insult whoever he deems as “hater” for the sake of a video game company?

I like labels has much as I like gamers hating on games they don't play. As for the question I dunno, you'll have to ask him or someone who cares about labels.

[Kyanion]

Out of curiosity, since you seem to like labels so much, what do you label someone who joins a WoW based forum, rushes 10 quick posts over the place and jumps into this thread, and this thread alone, just to post links and insult whoever he deems as “hater” for the sake of a video game company?

A shill? Someone who wants a whirling vortex of circle jerking? I've seen a few people with posting history like that, it has always been funny.