Can we all now agree that Vanilla wasn't harder?

[vitor210]

Then im sorry that you and the people you were grouped with are bad, but its fine, thats what people who can't tackle on retail hardest content do, they play classic.

I really hope I wont ever have to deal with your toxic mentality and attitude. Hopefully the rest of the server also puts you on /ignore so you end up flexing alone that you run dungeons with no cc

- - - Updated - - -

Yes, every single person that plays Classic is playing it because they can't do content on retail. Definition of delusion.

literally this! never have I ever seen such a delusional creature

[Yriel]

As a D&D player, I agree, and I that's why I think that a lot of people here don't really want to play an RPG. They want to play an action adventure game.

That's interesting because as a P&P player i never cared about weapon speed or talent points but more about the storyarcs and character interactions in the party. The rules were always pretty interchangeable to me.
Sure you played roleplaying games with other people or CRPGs?

[Frozenbro]

Yes, every single person that plays Classic is playing it because they can't do content on retail. Definition of delusion.

No, i didnt say that, i even have guildies who play classic on their downtime, i said IF you cant tackle on retail hard content, you can do both just fine and i never included this group of people in that comment, but yeah i missed the "if" so my b there.

[NineSpine]

Then im sorry that you and the people you were grouped with are bad, but its fine, thats what people who can't tackle on retail hardest content do, they play classic.

Or maybe we don’t feel like repeating content over and over again with higher numbers and hacks, gamey systems inserted in.

- - - Updated - - -

That's interesting because as a P&P player i never cared about weapon speed or talent points but more about the storyarcs and character interactions in the party. The rules were always pretty interchangeable to me.
Sure you played roleplaying games with other people or CRPGs?

I’m the DM for a weekly D&D group.

[Ifeanychukwu]

Currently leveling a Holy Paladin in a group, my first five talent points thus far have given me 2 intellect or 20 mana.

Man I sure am glad we have these back. Can you imagine not being able to immerse yourself into this level of customization? Imagine if I had a choice of three new abilities by now, that'd just lead me to some cookie cutter bullshit.

You mean a choice between 3 abilities that used to be baseline but now you have to choose which of the three you get back? The first 10-15 points in the talent tree are pretty boring for most classes, but real choices are made later in the trees. Build defining choices come in at around 10-15 points. Or how about leveling in retail for 10 or more levels without getting a single ability? That just feels so fucking awesome, right?

[Elias01]

Well, let's put raids in perspective. Whole Molten core is like 1 mechanic/phase per boss. How is that hard? Dungeons are the same. You could brute force raid encounters in vanilla with more than half raid dead. Can you do that in Mythic? Not really. Even Jaina Heroic was quite hard for a lot of the players, until she got nerfed.

Not only that, but you could stay outside of boss range and simply ress people who die. We had a guy who was crap at game - but he was one of the best 'OOC ressers' back in the days.

You keep saying mythic, mythic like some broke disc. We are not comparing classic raids vs bfa mythic. We compare classic vs bfa.no vs bfa mythic. Mythic or any raids in modern wow are like 5% of content in the game. You cherry pick some artificial difficulty slider what nobady cares about and look nfa is harder becouse of mythic. Completly ignoring rest of 95% of game content. Imagine you have to pick hardest difficulty in the game so you can say your raids are harder than 15 old game raids. Thats says lot. What about faceroll leveling? Or Islands? Or afkronts? LFR? LFG? Hmm? As dar i am aware most people consider this as bfa end game not mythic raiding. Yes mythic ia harder than clasaic raids but thats about it.

[Bigbazz]

I think the faction of people saying it is harder is silenced anyway. And also, leveling is not harder, it is just slower with an overall slower gameplay. Depends on class of course, but still, as a Mage I pulled like 8 mobs and AE'd. I just hat to reg like two minutes for every pull...

And it was obvious that it's gonna be really easy if you had any clue at all.

We also never use CC in dungeons. No need for that at all. We were all shit players back then. Now only some players are still that shit. For everyone else classic now is of course easy.

Well levelling is harder, you try levelling as a Warrior and say it's not harder. Levelling as a Warrior in any modern expansion has been a case of pull as much as you want and roflstomp it, even if you pull too much you can escape with ease, elites are soloable. That is absolutely nowhere near the case in Vanilla, you have to carefully navigate your way around dangerous areas, employ tactics like pulling and kiting to drop agro on additional adds and RNG can kill you where you'd normally survive if you don't account for it, grouping is necessary a lot.

I mean in every way levelling is considerably harder and more time consuming than in any retail expansion after TBC. As for the dungeons being hard, most people in the know would have told you long before Classic was announced that the dungeons were a joke, and that the raids pre AQ40 were like LFR. You're talking about select folks when you bring up people thinking Vanilla dungeons were hard, not any sort of majority.

[Absalomm]

I don't think people think things trough when they compare Rag and Ony kills this time around with the new content in BFA that they are given. Rag and Ony were hard af when they got out, the patches were diferent from 1.12 and no one had any tactics in place. It's like if my guild who took down Heroic Garosh back in the day and a guild who didn't had a contest at who would do it first. We would storm trough the raid in a week (i remmember every single detail from all 4 phases!) but the new guild can't. They dont know the tactics, they need beter gear and so on. It's just not a fair race. You can't say that it's easily compared to unkown with 15 years of expirience on it and a patch were you as player got so many buffs with all the shit up to a 1.12 patch. I mean with 1.12 you are playing an easier version of your favourite childhood game LOL!

[Kiri]

You keep saying mythic, mythic like some broke disc. We are not comparing classic raids vs bfa mythic. We compare classic vs bfa.no vs bfa mythic. Mythic or any raids in modern wow are like 5% of content in the game. You cherry pick some artificial difficulty slider what nobady cares about and look nfa is harder becouse of mythic. Completly ignoring rest of 95% of game content. Imagine you have to pick hardest difficulty in the game so you can say your raids are harder than 15 old game raids. Thats says lot. What about faceroll leveling? Or Islands? Or afkronts? LFR? LFG? Hmm? As dar i am aware most people consider this as bfa end game not mythic raiding. Yes mythic ia harder than clasaic raids but thats about it.

But isn't it pointless to compare a static level of difficulty to a sliding one in general? Retail allows you to pretty much pick the level of difficulty you want to play on for most content, from warfronts (heroic vs normal), dungeons (normal vs hc vs a whole set of levels with mythic ones), raids (lfr, normal, hc, mythic). Just picking any one setting of those and comparing that to Classic's static setting is just....pointless. Especially when things like LFR and LFG were pretty much designed to be easier to begin with.
Just be honest here: if you only do the easiest difficulties, then Classic is harder than Retail on pretty much all accounts. If you focus on the hardest ones, then Retail is harder than Classic. The comparison certainly could be fine-tuned a bit better, but this feels fair to say. There is no need to just ignore different difficulty settings when making a comparison. I mean, we don't do that when talking other games, either, not sure why it has to be with this one.

[Nozuka]

judging by all the skeletons everywhere and my own deaths, leveling is definitely "harder". especially in lower levels, 2 mobs might already be too many. the fact that you go OOM pretty fast, also makes it harder. (compared to retail)

it sometimes feels almost impossible to die while leveling in retail. and you also get good gear just handed to you all the time.

healing in a dungeon also takes more effort. (varies by group though)

haven't reached max level yet, so i can't judge the raid content. but i remember how bad everyone was back then, so i won't be surprised if it is much easier today.


and all of this is obviously different for every class.

[Akka]

M+ was created cause 5 man dungeons were useless past a certain point in every iteration of wow, why is this a point.

That's again exactly my point.
Power inflation in current WoW is so huge that even with three levels of difficulty (normal, heroic, mythic), dungeons were still hopelessly obsolete near-immediately and it was needed to make an infinitely-scalable model.
Power growth in Classic is MUCH more moderate.

[Tony Slam]

Nobody ever said vanilla was harder than modern WoW on a mechanical level.
everyday casual content is far more engaging and "harder" than retail.
mythic raiding is leaps and bounds harder than any content in vanilla.

it was never black and white "vanilla is harder". stop making shit up.

[ManiaCCC]

I know guy who is claiming that WoW classic is not harder, it's just more tedious - yet, I saw him dead during leveling like 30 times already and whining why mobs are so hard And I guess this is not isolated case either. Take it as you want.

[Absalomm]

That's again exactly my point.
Power inflation in current WoW is so huge that even with three levels of difficulty (normal, heroic, mythic), dungeons were still hopelessly obsolete near-immediately and it was needed to make an infinitely-scalable model.
Power growth in Classic is MUCH more moderate.

And again, that is the point. It has a feel to it that Warcraft 3 had. You are powerfull but not godlike. You could get shit done but entities like Lich King, Sargeras and so on were just untouchable and misterious until one day we woke up, downloaded our newest expansions were we had just enough bears killed to be expirienced and strong enough to let's say kill the LK or fuck up an entire Legion! MODERATE is the key word, modern day wow is like a fucking TV Novela were Illidan one day finds out that he is his own fucking brother, father, mother and lover all at the same time.

[cface]

Nobody ever said vanilla was harder than modern WoW on a mechanical level.
everyday casual content is far more engaging and "harder" than retail.
mythic raiding is leaps and bounds harder than any content in vanilla.

it was never black and white "vanilla is harder". stop making shit up.

I wonder who actually said that vanilla was harder, cause it can't be those who actually played the content then, and then also the content in retail. I too, think people actually just said this to stir shit up.

[Frozenbro]

I wonder who actually said that vanilla was harder, cause it can't be those who actually played the content then, and then also the content in retail. I too, think people actually just said this to stir shit up.

"actually if u look back at how many days passed before the final boss of a raid tier was killed, the older raids(pre Cata) were in fact a lot harder. unless you are somehow implying that a raid boss that took over a month to kill is some how easier than a boss that took a week to kill." literally on the previous page.

[Tekkommo]

actually if u look back at how many days passed before the final boss of a raid tier was killed, the older raids(pre Cata) were in fact a lot harder. unless you are somehow implying that a raid boss that took over a month to kill is some how easier than a boss that took a week to kill.

Can't really compare them.

Completely different mindsets.

Hardcore back then was raiding 5 nights a week.

Take a look at the hardcore guilds now when a new raid releases compared to back then. How long would bosses take to kill if you more than halved their raid time (yes, you could say nearly twice as long but we are talking going from 16 hours every day, to at most 5 hours a night, 5 days a week).

I could raid hardcore back in the day with my full time job. Would be impossible for me now (same job).

Completely different.

[Eazy]

actually if u look back at how many days passed before the final boss of a raid tier was killed, the older raids(pre Cata) were in fact a lot harder. unless you are somehow implying that a raid boss that took over a month to kill is some how easier than a boss that took a week to kill.

It's like comparing flu to some cancers.

Saying that flu is a dangerous and deadly disease may be right... if it was 1000 years ago. Right now? Nah.
Cancers back then? It was a death sentence. Right now? Some can be just removed with scalpels.

What I mean?

Can't really compare them.

Completely different mindsets.

Hardcore back then was raiding 5 nights a week.

Take a look at the hardcore guilds now when a new raid releases compared to back then. How long would bosses take to kill if you more than halved their raid time (yes, you could say nearly twice as long but we are talking going from 16 hours every day, to at most 5 hours a night, 5 days a week).

I could raid hardcore back in the day with my full time job. Would be impossible for me now (same job).

Completely different.

Exactly, in times where everyone can have addons/simbots/guides etc the Vanilla is trivial compared to retail. It's just more time consuming.

[Annelie]

Come on, i am gonna get an infraction if people keep posting this stuff.

The loudest classic fanboys truly spammed that bro, for months, that Vanilla is harder.

Vanilla was harder, classic is not vanilla.

[deepjazz]

talent vise and levelling its more fun really than retail, you look forward to a new level because you get a new spell, you enjoy the levelling in vanilla while in retail it's like oh why dont we all start at lvl 120.

classic is fun, retail is fun if you like to get loot and everything easy.. but honstly someone of us enjoy taking time levelling and we are in no rush and therefore i think it's good for wow to have both classic and retail, more to do for everyone.