Unpopular Opinion: Can't take Varian seriously

[Highelf]

You didn't read any of that because you're talking about something you're beyond clueless about. At least the other Alliance posters in this thread trying to claim the previous faction war was started by the Horde acknowledged Varian's declaration of war in WotLK but tried to conjure up a non-existent peace treaty since then. But please, do go on about how I'm the ignorant fanboy with my own headcanon when in your opinion the faction war began with the bombing of Theramore as if Cataclysm and WotLK didn't happen. It's truly endearing.

And we literally saw Sylvanas ripping a wolf's head off in War Crimes. Wolves have thicker necks than humans, meaning more force is required to rip a head off of a wolf than it is of a human. Ergo, Sylvanas can rip a human's head off. Simple logic using established lore facts. Unless you think Varian had super neck or something, in which case, do share a source.

And this charade of yours is precisely what I meant when talking about the kind of poster that disagrees with me. I could literally quote the relevant entries from WoW books right now and you'd still pretend you are right.

the horde is amazing and your head canon and the hordes heroes are all Gods. The horde never does wrong and You are always right and never wrong. Here is your participation ribbon.

[Mehrunes]

The dead giveaway is the Varimathras fight himself.

When we're coming for him, does he try to escape? Act like a Dreadlord usually would and try to save his ass by selling out Sylvanas and talking us down?

No, he's using the Undercity as a fortress in which he can open portals, summon a shitload of Legion, all while a voice from beyond is talking about "endless planning" and Varimathras is saying "the master is near".

Yeah, so unless Sylvanas was over there doing all this just to secretly summon one of the Legion's leadership and help destroy the world, I'm pretty sure it wasn't actually done on her orders at the time. They can go back now and say that it totally was and it's their canon so whatever, but at the time it was written it totally wasn't.

And that voice was literally Sargeras. And it's not just that. Cata Forsaken intro flat out stated Wrathgate was a betrayal against the Horde and the Forsaken. And it was said by an omniscient narrator. Besides, this isn't a retcon because Afrasiabi's statement, even if it's to be taken at face value (and the guy often talks nonsense in interviews) is vague as hell. Nothing about the specifics of those Sylvanas' orders he talked about is stated.

[Verdugo]

the horde is amazing and your head canon and the hordes heroes are all Gods. The horde never does wrong and You are always right and never wrong. Here is your participation ribbon.

Its like you are talking to a mirror.

[cparle87]

He never implied he could, it would have been war, but the result would have been decided before it started.



We aren't talking about imps, we're talking about infernals.

And the infernal... If you lost control of your infernal summon (back when that could happen), it would smash your face in right quick.

I've always had a soft spot in my heart for infernals. They were the first demons from the Legion we ever saw, and it was freaking terrifying in the WC3 cinematic. Btw, did we ever find out what the warlocks were summoning in the First War? I know those are technically the first demons we ever saw.

[Mehrunes]

Just keep embarrassing yourself, doesn't affect me none

Do you really need me to link the Broken Shore cinematic showing him getting impaled by Felguards? Or do you honestly think that had Gul'dan not disenchanted him Varian would have miraculously turned things around despite being a disarmed shish kebab? Shish kebab pierced with spears laced with Fel poison strong enough it rendered Vol'jin's innate Troll regeneration completely useless?

It's pointless to explain things to him. He's VERY horde biased so he will always have a rebuttal no matter how ridiculous it is.

Good for me that making statements about events from WoW's books isn't ridiculous.

For the record, yes i'm Alliance but i'm not biased and can admit when someone is weaker than someone else or when they F something up. I'm not sold on Anduin yet or his strategies(how do you NOT anticipate blight while trying to sack the undercity lol). Malfurion was a B all throughout Legion. And Turalyon was not portrayed well at all in Legion either.

You're so not biased you tried to pretend the previous faction war started with Theramore

[Verdugo]

Btw, did we ever find out what the warlocks were summoning in the First War? I know those are technically the first demons we ever saw.

Generic winged, horned demon. Doomguard propably.

[Darth-Piekus]

Never expected that in 2019 there would be still people who would debate established facts about the Siege of Orgrimmar ending even after a confirmation of Metzen himself.

[Rozz]

Several of you need to reel it in. There is no reason to be hostile during discussion.

[Mehrunes]

And as you can see, those who were caught or suspected were imprisoned or worse. Just before the Dark Shaman fight shows that.

Not sure what you mean by "logical link" since it's pretty obvious I thought.
Not only did the Horde lose a chunk of their army to Garrosh, but they also lost Horde loyalists trying to take back Orgrimmar. Even before the Siege itself, the trolls were being slammed around by Garrosh for Vol'jin's betrayal.

And Trolls are a sliver of the Horde's forces because the Darkspears are a tiny-ass tribe. And the loyalists trying to take back Orgrimmar would be among the chunk of their army they lost to Garrosh, so I'm not sure why you're differentiating the two.

Unless by the chunk they lost to Garrosh you're referring to the forces that remained loyal to him and died with him. In which case counting them among Horde losses in an argument about which side lost more to those exact chunk at SoO (at which point they were already a separate faction) makes little sense.

Under the context that Sylvanas would be protecting it too, yes. Which isn't really the same as trying to use a gunship for the initial push. It's like comparing the first wave of people at Normandy to the later waves, of course the first few are going to be slaughtered.

The way I read the OP they didn't call the gunship an initial push though.

I'll admit I wasn't sure on when they joined the Alliance, but it still wasn't due to negligence or just "troggs", they were betrayed from within.

Eh, the betrayal was about the deployment of a super weapon the Gnomes were forced to use because the Troggs already had their balls in a vice grip. Had they not deployed it they'd still lose to be honest. I mean, sure, the betrayal didn't exactly help matters, but Gnomes were simply out of options at that point and their remaining trump card backfiring on them simply sped things up.

Because no one would say "The Horde sucks in combat because they couldn't get a few islands back". So why is Gnomeregan being used as a measurement of the Alliance combat strength? There's more at play than just "Troggs and leper gnomes!". It's also the investment of having to deal with the radiation on top of forces that just don't care about the radiation (leper gnomes/troggs).

But that wasn't their argument. It had nothing to do with retaking Gnomeregan and Alliance's capacity to do so. They were arguing that Troggs weren't a threat to Alliance as a whole just because they rampaged through one of their cities and compared it to how Alliance wouldn't be destroy the Horde just because they kicked Garrosh's behind in Orgrimmar. Whether it's an apt comparison or not is questionable, but they weren't directly using Gnomeragan as measuring stick for the Alliance.

the horde is amazing and your head canon and the hordes heroes are all Gods. The horde never does wrong and You are always right and never wrong. Here is your participation ribbon.

Resorting to (particularly weak) straw-men because you ran out of arguments on a topic you know nothing about isn't actually a substitute for an argument. Sorry to disappoint you.

[Kemsa]

As people already mentioned, Varian and Anduin (i will say Bolvar, Callia, Jaina and Thrall) suffered from Blizzards writting. And its not about on how people are going to react to them, its what would happened with those characters if they do something "dramatic, extreme"
Varian was agresive, pasive, agresive, pasive.
Anduin, Blizzard its literally keeping him away from the Battle, probably the only moment that he looks epic and as a King of the ALLIANCE OF STORMWIND... was the start of BfA.

Varian in the other hand, was the answer of a "intricated" story about Onyxia and the throne. Then Varian returned and it was amazing, because you know... he was an important character since warcraft rts.

But then it started to be "downed" or been overshadow by other characters, Garrosh, voljin even from Anduin itself, then just become like Voljin... and npc on your garrison to later become the hero that died for the alliance. At least he got the best part aside from voljin, who literally needed to expand his "stupid way of dying"

But again, some characters are not well develop by Blizzard, because it takes a looooooot of time, just look at Jaina, how they "fixed her" to the amazing badass mage from WC3 and now the Lord Admiral of Kultiras reinvigorating her arch, but between all of that..... its just a mess.

Garrosh its another example, from an Emo Orc, to a bloodthirsty warrior (how you were emo 6 months ago wtf) to the most Honorable Warrior becoming Warchief without his willing (because thats an important thing that everyone forgets... he didnt want to be a Warchief, he is a warrior) to at the end of Cata becoming a Bloodthirsty Warmonger, to a literally CONQUISTADOR of the new land to becoming a simple npc that you DONT EVEN KILL....

And we can talk about characters that are better develop that many others, hek i can even say that Mankrik has a better storyline than many of the important characters.

Varian suffers of that, he needed an entire expa to be introduced, but they decided to use comics, i undesrtand you, but Varian its the attempt of making a good Warrior leader for the Alliance, but ended be overshadow by his Son and probably the YAOI speculation with Wrathion.

[Mehrunes]

I've always had a soft spot in my heart for infernals. They were the first demons from the Legion we ever saw, and it was freaking terrifying in the WC3 cinematic. Btw, did we ever find out what the warlocks were summoning in the First War? I know those are technically the first demons we ever saw.

Likely some kind of Ered'ruin judging by the looks (especially of the artwork since it's more detailed).

[Friendlyimmolation]

The only thing I didn’t take Varian seriously about was his god awful anime hair and his god awful “lol I was chosen by a night elf ancient over a night elf.”


Well that and the whole making Tyrande stupid to make him look good.

[Shadowferal]

Several of you need to reel it in. There is no reason to be hostile during discussion.

It's trash talk...like what happens in sports events.

Edit: All the more reason for it to cease. Save mudslinging for ingame pvp.

[Darkeon]

I approve your nerd RP mannerisms. Big thumbs up.

[Mehrunes]

Garrosh its another example, from an Emo Orc, to a bloodthirsty warrior (how you were emo 6 months ago wtf) to the most Honorable Warrior becoming Warchief without his willing (because thats an important thing that everyone forgets... he didnt want to be a Warchief, he is a warrior) to at the end of Cata becoming a Bloodthirsty Warmonger, to a literally CONQUISTADOR of the new land to becoming a simple npc that you DONT EVEN KILL....

Garrosh made sense though. Because the reason why he was emo is because he thought his father was a disgrace. But then he learned he redeemed himself and that reopened the daddy issues shaped hole in his heart. Which he tried to fill by emulating the worst parts of his father's legacy that were the entire reason why he was emo over him in the first place because he had no introspection whatsoever. He also projected some of his daddy issues onto his advisers and when that didn't work at all he grew more and more pissed off.

The only thing I didn’t take Varian seriously about was his god awful anime hair and his god awful “lol I was chosen by a night elf ancient over a night elf.”


Well that and the whole making Tyrande stupid to make him look good.

IMO the worse offender in regards to his looks is his chin. Though is hair is a bit too much hasagi...

[Shadowferal]

And then we have Varian's son: https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wo...as-really/5589

how can Anduin not defeat Sylvanas? Even in patch 8.1 the Alliance is just weeks away from victory without even using their full might against the Horde. But ho wait, no worries, Sylvanas has an ace up her sleeve because of course, she is one above all for … reasons!

[Dagoth Ur]

I'm definitely not a fan of Varian, but I'd take him over Anduin any day of the week. At least he contributed to the conflict actually happening and it didn't all have to go over Horde's back.

With him, there also weren't those ridiculous moments where he'd break the 4th wall to tell us how evil Horde's Warchief is.

[Leyre]

Just keep embarrassing yourself, doesn't affect me none

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I'm not sold on Anduin yet or his strategies(how do you NOT anticipate blight while trying to sack the undercity lol).

Same way his idiotic father did not had the foresight to bring either archers or god damn riflemans

The wrynns are a bunch of incompetent morons

[Feanoro]

Same way his idiotic father did not had the foresight to bring either archers or god damn riflemans

The wrynns are a bunch of incompetent morons

Blizzard's writers and developers:

1) Don't know jack shit about military matters

2) Fall for the idiotic meme about bows being wimpy. Yeah. We know from skeletal remains that European archers had arms like gorillas and trained from childhood.

3) Don't like scary guns and consequently haven't the slightest damned idea of the differences between them or how they would affect a sword and armor battlefield.

(I love when the visual is a musket, but they call it a rifle, or call something a shotgun but describe a rifle's behavior)

[Super Dickmann]

I'm definitely not a fan of Varian, but I'd take him over Anduin any day of the week. At least he contributed to the conflict actually happening and it didn't all have to go over Horde's back.

With him, there also weren't those ridiculous moments where he'd break the 4th wall to tell us how evil Horde's Warchief is.

This opinion is correct. Listen to it.