Best Wow experience and era?

[CiccioBello]

I don't know about actual eras, i guess with an expansion wide timeframe. It would be WotLK, but even during it's more fractured.

BfA
-Another great leveling experience, 3rd best leveling process in my book. Drustvar and Tirigarde Sound especially are great experiences.
-War mode, the ending of 14 year pvp realm jail and the new beginning of a great world experience on my terms.
-Long waited new race customizations via allied races and heritage armors.
-The best and most fun class and spec gameplay of all the 15 years across all classes.

you meant one of the worst iterations in 15 years of wow
why don't you ask if the players who have chosen to play like the enha shaman, arcane mage, arms warr etc.?
In bfa the classes will always be done in the same way, without a soul and with a pruning of skill gone beyond everything with a system of talents often not up to par and the new Azerite armor progression system which was a hole in the water.
Warmode is a perennial celebration of the horde, so the faction imbalance has made this mode very bad especially for alliance players.
A really bland leveling phase and redoing everything with the different alts was a torture.
Different points of view

[Redecle]

you meant one of the worst iterations in 15 years of wow
why don't you ask if the players who have chosen to play like the enha shaman, arcane mage, arms warr etc.?
In bfa the classes will always be done in the same way, without a soul and with a pruning of skill gone beyond everything with a system of talents often not up to par and the new Azerite armor progression system which was a hole in the water.
Warmode is a perennial celebration of the horde, so the faction imbalance has made this mode very bad especially for alliance players.
A really bland leveling phase and redoing everything with the different alts was a torture.
Different points of view

Well as you said it yourself different points of view.

I've enjoyed the heck out of the classes and i do play enha shaman, it's my 3rd favorite spec in the game at the moment after outlaw rogue and fury warrior.
I play my mage also as arcane and quite frankly it's as good as it's been a long time, hasn't really changed.
But granted my entire viewpoint comes from the fact that the best specs are the most simple. If it's a 1 button spam, with 180 actions per minute, sign me up.
To me the more simple the spec is the better it is. 3-button outlaw has never been better (no guile, no poisons, no nothing extra, you build and spend on one to track and one finisher, no thinking just clicking buttons, perfect), 3 button arcane has been that for years. Only one out of those i don't play is arms, but i've never liked arms, ever. Still each class has at least 1 spec that's great, not all of them are, but currently i can play a class and enjoy one spec minimum, for me at least, most have more than 1. Demon hunters which is my least favorite has only 2 specs and even there Vengeance feeling good to play makes it well reach the 50% mark even though Havoc is one of the worst ones in BfA.
Viable? That's a different question, i'm sure if you do high m+ and mythic raiding or ranked pvp all specs are not viable cause their output or survivability as i've understood Vengeance is suffering from. I feel for you, but it's not my problem or risk my enjoyment of playing the specs cause i don't care about viability or what's best. I don't do cookie cutter builds either, i pick what i want when i want, that's the point of an rpg. All of them do just fine in the base content.
With a system of maintaining buffs and debuffs and building up points to spent or priorities, yeah the similarities are there, it's not an endless source of possible combat styles, but that's also great. I got 14 max level toons, minimum 1 of each class, i can play one and hop in another and start playing without having the need to relearn how the basic combat works.

Azerite i can agree completely on. It's pointless useless piece of rng shit tacked on to make gearing "interesting". Which is another point the views probably differ, gearing is never interesting and it has never been imo. The best thing this game could do is to remove stat based gearing. Remove the treadmill and let as assign stat points permanently in to our characters. If you get 1 agi, it's in your character forever, not until you change your shirt or pants. The entire loot game is boring and giving azerite at max level doesn't make it interesting, cause the very baseline of green, blue, purple doesn't make it interesting. But that's just my two cents, out of a million, who are desperately doing anything they can to get better gear.

I'm sure warmode is that. If you pvp. My whole point was the pve side of it. I spent 14 years on pvp server, cause the players i started with wanted the pvp experience and i'm too cheap to buy a transfer when they quit the game like 8 years ago. This mode is the best feature Blizzard has ever added to the game, from the viewpoint of a player who wanted out of pvp realm. Now that it's here, well it apparently didn't fix wpvp in 1 expansion, but maybe just maybe it could actually do something useful in the next 3-4 expansions. Any new feature almost always doesn't work when introduced.

I don't know what leveling phase you did, but i enjoyed the alliance side story. Horde on the other hand was utter shit.
Expansion leveling content has never really been alt friendly. Vanilla was just so large that there were actually multiple routes, but since expansions don't differ between races and continents that much, alts are always going to be boring repetition. I did my main on alliance side, Drustvar and Tirisgarde to me had great stories, i did my horde toon via questing too, just to find out that Vol'dun was mediocre and the rest shit. Then i did 12 other toons with heirlooms running only timewalking dungeons cause it was the fastest thing to do and i already knew how the zones are. At least for me zones and questing and full exploration is always just for main and the rest is whatever is the fastest route.

[CiccioBello]

Well as you said it yourself different points of view.

I've enjoyed the heck out of the classes and i do play enha shaman, it's my 3rd favorite spec in the game at the moment after outlaw rogue and fury warrior.
I play my mage also as arcane and quite frankly it's as good as it's been a long time, hasn't really changed.
But granted my entire viewpoint comes from the fact that the best specs are the most simple. If it's a 1 button spam, with 180 actions per minute, sign me up.
To me the more simple the spec is the better it is. 3-button outlaw has never been better (no guile, no poisons, no nothing extra, you build and spend on one to track and one finisher, no thinking just clicking buttons, perfect), 3 button arcane has been that for years. Only one out of those i don't play is arms, but i've never liked arms, ever. Still each class has at least 1 spec that's great, not all of them are, but currently i can play a class and enjoy one spec minimum, for me at least, most have more than 1. Demon hunters which is my least favorite has only 2 specs and even there Vengeance feeling good to play makes it well reach the 50% mark even though Havoc is one of the worst ones in BfA.
Viable? That's a different question, i'm sure if you do high m+ and mythic raiding or ranked pvp all specs are not viable cause their output or survivability as i've understood Vengeance is suffering from. I feel for you, but it's not my problem or risk my enjoyment of playing the specs cause i don't care about viability or what's best. I don't do cookie cutter builds either, i pick what i want when i want, that's the point of an rpg. All of them do just fine in the base content.
With a system of maintaining buffs and debuffs and building up points to spent or priorities, yeah the similarities are there, it's not an endless source of possible combat styles, but that's also great. I got 14 max level toons, minimum 1 of each class, i can play one and hop in another and start playing without having the need to relearn how the basic combat works.

Azerite i can agree completely on. It's pointless useless piece of rng shit tacked on to make gearing "interesting". Which is another point the views probably differ, gearing is never interesting and it has never been imo. The best thing this game could do is to remove stat based gearing. Remove the treadmill and let as assign stat points permanently in to our characters. If you get 1 agi, it's in your character forever, not until you change your shirt or pants. The entire loot game is boring and giving azerite at max level doesn't make it interesting, cause the very baseline of green, blue, purple doesn't make it interesting. But that's just my two cents, out of a million, who are desperately doing anything they can to get better gear.

I'm sure warmode is that. If you pvp. My whole point was the pve side of it. I spent 14 years on pvp server, cause the players i started with wanted the pvp experience and i'm too cheap to buy a transfer when they quit the game like 8 years ago. This mode is the best feature Blizzard has ever added to the game, from the viewpoint of a player who wanted out of pvp realm. Now that it's here, well it apparently didn't fix wpvp in 1 expansion, but maybe just maybe it could actually do something useful in the next 3-4 expansions. Any new feature almost always doesn't work when introduced.

I don't know what leveling phase you did, but i enjoyed the alliance side story. Horde on the other hand was utter shit.
Expansion leveling content has never really been alt friendly. Vanilla was just so large that there were actually multiple routes, but since expansions don't differ between races and continents that much, alts are always going to be boring repetition. I did my main on alliance side, Drustvar and Tirisgarde to me had great stories, i did my horde toon via questing too, just to find out that Vol'dun was mediocre and the rest shit. Then i did 12 other toons with heirlooms running only timewalking dungeons cause it was the fastest thing to do and i already knew how the zones are. At least for me zones and questing and full exploration is always just for main and the rest is whatever is the fastest route.

Surely they are different opinions as we have two different game visions.
I played the enha shaman extensively during Legion and the Bfa iteration is just the shadow of what it was.
Of course the one in Legion was not perfect but the current iteration worsened the good aspects and did not solve the problems he had.
Having said that the fact that WoW during the course of the expansions has gradually removed everything that required the use a brain and this is not an advantage but a disadvantage and a striking example are the classes proposed in BfA.
Of course if you are a player not interested in High rank M + and Raid> = HC this factor does not feel it but for those like me who instead like this content then the speech changes a lot and believe me it is really frustrating to have to abandon your favorite class / spec because in the most fun and competitive content is not viable.
Of course the famous "meta" is something that has always been there but it has never been so much restricted to a few specs as in BfA and the gap between meta and non-meta classes has never been so wide .
Certainly a perfect balance between the classes is practically impossible due to the different nature of the specs but it is precisely what has been done in BfA and this eventually turned out to be counterproductive as it made the classes too trivial and similar to each other in the name of a balance that in fact does not exist.
Honestly, I do not find it right that players who are not interested in the endgame have a say in the classes because, having not explored the true potential of the class, they are not able to give an objective judgment either in a positive sense or in a negative sense and therefore compromise the experience of other players because these during the farming or the different transmo-run etc do not want to use the brain and your sentence "i can play one and hop in another and start playing without having to relearn how the basic combat works" it annoys me a lot because in order not to put ourselves in a minimum of effort and patience, it is satisfied with stupid classes pressing at most 2/3 buttons without using the brain. It's precisely this thought that led us to this hateful class design
Classes so simple and banal that leave so little space to the inventiveness and capacity of the players are boring and in the long run they tire.
Every person is free to play as WoW wants, but honestly I never understood those players not interested in the end game.
It's like buying a Ferrari and driving it without ever passing 60 km / h.
Why buy a car so expensive and powerful if you only take advantage of 1/10 of its capacity and maybe complain that it is difficult to drive?
I repeat, they are just different points of view.

[kaminaris]

I played the enha shaman extensively during Legion and the Bfa iteration is just the shadow of what it was.

That is just your opinion, not a fact. More buttons doesn't meant more fun.

Having said that the fact that WoW during the course of the expansions has gradually removed everything that required the use a brain and this is not an advantage but a disadvantage and a striking example are the classes proposed in BfA.

That is like completely opposite what happened. Look at classic rotations, one button spam, look at classic mechanics = braindead mechanics.
Now you can write PhD thesis about wow combat system. It got so complex over the years it is sometimes impossible to check for upgrades without simming it.

Of course if you are a player not interested in High rank M + and Raid> = HC this factor does not feel it but for those like me who instead like this content then the speech changes a lot and believe me it is really frustrating to have to abandon your favorite class / spec because in the most fun and competitive content is not viable.

M+ balance is a garbage, but raids? Not really, you definitely can play almost every spec which wasn't the case in previous expansion as for example this:
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/st...unt&dataset=80
Best spec = 160k dps
Worst one = 86k
almost 100% difference

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/st...gregate=amount
Current tier:
Best: 55k
Worst: 42k
Difference: 25% (it gets even lower if you cut one worst and one best spec)



Legion had pretty decent balance, similar to BfA, previous expansions were garbage in terms of balance on raids.

Of course the famous "meta" is something that has always been there but it has never been so much restricted to a few specs as in BfA and the gap between meta and non-meta classes has never been so wide .

You got it completely wrong. Raids meta were in shambles in MoP with few classes being so OP nobody could ever compete. Thanks to snapshotting. Tanks being the best DPSes, disci priest being uber OP. Truth is, raids never been better balanced than now.

M+ is still new, balance there was always garbage, since day one it was introduced.

Certainly a perfect balance between the classes is practically impossible due to the different nature of the specs but it is precisely what has been done in BfA and this eventually turned out to be counterproductive as it made the classes too trivial and similar to each other in the name of a balance that in fact does not exist.

Just your opinion. I played all specs since Mop and the only time they all got changed much was MoP -> WoD transition.

Honestly, I do not find it right that players who are not interested in the endgame have a say in the classes because, having not explored the true potential of the class, they are not able to give an objective judgment either in a positive sense or in a negative sense and therefore compromise the experience of other players because these during the farming or the different transmo-run etc do not want to use the brain and your sentence "i can play one and hop in another and start playing without having to relearn how the basic combat works" it annoys me a lot because in order not to put ourselves in a minimum of effort and patience, it is satisfied with stupid classes pressing at most 2/3 buttons without using the brain. It's precisely this thought that led us to this hateful class design

9 Cutting edges since MoP, and I call this false. Gameplay is purely subjective, for me current demo lock is the best spec ever created. Timeless incontestable masterpiece that no spec in entire WoW history can even hold a candle to.

Classes so simple and banal that leave so little space to the inventiveness and capacity of the players are boring and in the long run they tire.
Every person is free to play as WoW wants, but honestly I never understood those players not interested in the end game.
It's like buying a Ferrari and driving it without ever passing 60 km / h.
Why buy a car so expensive and powerful if you only take advantage of 1/10 of its capacity and maybe complain that it is difficult to drive?
I repeat, they are just different points of view.

As rotation helper addon developer I can only tell you this: No human being is able to perform perfect rotation aside from few specs: BM hunter, Warrior fury and maybe ret pala. Classes being easy? Not even close.

Unless your definition of "trivial" means getting 70% performance compared to other human beings. My definition of trivial class is getting 90%+ while smashing random buttons.

[Shakana]

Probably Wotlk for pve and world content and pvp, it has all of it on point. Cata i enjoyed only firelands and PVP, mostly PVP.

And hold on, Legion. Legion was definitely my second favorite expansion and era after Wotlk. I have never been so happy in my life on a expansion like those 2 expansions. Made loads of friends, brought me back playing and staying awake all night as i used to in Wotlk. The world was comfortable to stay playing in. I loved Broken isles and exploring every single thing.

[Mirishka]

MoP, Wotlk and Legion, in that order. And my best experience was getting over the hill from the Horde starting area in the Jade Forest and seeing this massive zone that just kept on and on. It was the perfect start of the adventure in a new land and I loved it.

MoP was near perfect for me in every aspect, including the dailies(except Golden Lotus gating) with amazingly fun class gameplay, beautiful zones and music, compelling story, interesting raids and an overall nice experience.
Jade Forest is still one of my absolute favorite zones and I still enjoy walking/flying around in it.

Wotlk for the fun I had with guild and pugs and for the theme and music, it also had Ulduar which I still think is one of the best raids ever.

Never gonna forget getting to the XT boss with no-one in the raid knowing anything and we all wiped from laughing our asses off.

Legion for its rich content, interesting story, Suramar, class order hall content, class mounts, mage tower challenges and mostly interesting zone design. The biggest downer however was that some classes were changed too much and never recovered. But it was still a fun experience for the most part.

Seeing Suramar up close and sneaking around in the city using jars to hide in and slingshots to avoid the guards was so much fun.

Pretty much this, except I would rank Legion slightly above Wrath personally because it encouraged me to break a 10 year rut of only playing 2 classes. In Legion I played everything - literally every spec of every class. It was such a breath of fresh air.

Mists IMO offered the best class design the game has had, and I still look back fondly on my guild's Siege raids.

Wrath of course, because the storytelling was much better than vanilla or BC's.

[CiccioBello]

That is just your opinion, not a fact. More buttons doesn't meant more fun.



That is like completely opposite what happened. Look at classic rotations, one button spam, look at classic mechanics = braindead mechanics.
Now you can write PhD thesis about wow combat system. It got so complex over the years it is sometimes impossible to check for upgrades without simming it.



M+ balance is a garbage, but raids? Not really, you definitely can play almost every spec which wasn't the case in previous expansion as for example this:
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/st...unt&dataset=80
Best spec = 160k dps
Worst one = 86k
almost 100% difference

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/st...gregate=amount
Current tier:
Best: 55k
Worst: 42k
Difference: 25% (it gets even lower if you cut one worst and one best spec)



Legion had pretty decent balance, similar to BfA, previous expansions were garbage in terms of balance on raids.



You got it completely wrong. Raids meta were in shambles in MoP with few classes being so OP nobody could ever compete. Thanks to snapshotting. Tanks being the best DPSes, disci priest being uber OP. Truth is, raids never been better balanced than now.

M+ is still new, balance there was always garbage, since day one it was introduced.



Just your opinion. I played all specs since Mop and the only time they all got changed much was MoP -> WoD transition.



9 Cutting edges since MoP, and I call this false. Gameplay is purely subjective, for me current demo lock is the best spec ever created. Timeless incontestable masterpiece that no spec in entire WoW history can even hold a candle to.



As rotation helper addon developer I can only tell you this: No human being is able to perform perfect rotation aside from few specs: BM hunter, Warrior fury and maybe ret pala. Classes being easy? Not even close.

Unless your definition of "trivial" means getting 70% performance compared to other human beings. My definition of trivial class is getting 90%+ while smashing random buttons.

I see we don't understand each other.

1) make the comparison with the classes of the Classic does not make sense because you have times that were Vanillia was a new game on the market full of contradictions that in the course of the expansions have been partly improved.

2) Who ever said more buttons = more fun.
On this I agree with you.
Coming back to enha shaman, BfA's has not lost so many buttons compared to legion's, the one that lost all the passive artifacts that completed the spec and did not return, except in a very bland and clumsy way.

To give you an example first the primal build primer you had it base-line with the artifact, vanished Alfa-Wolf, the perk of legendary hands disappeared etc. .. are not buttons but are passive that in the passage from Legion to Bfa were removed meaningless.

Returning to the logs you posted, you are yet another person who merely looks at them superficially and bases everything on the mere dps without analyzing them a little in depth.

The first data to be taken into consideration are the parse.

Those of BfA are hallucinating clearly unbalanced if you add up the last half of the parse you arrive around to make the parse of the Havoc.
But besides this there is a clear disparity between the first half and the last half, there is the empty thing which is not so marked in the Hellfire Citadel log (except for the first 2 specs).
Not to go back too far, take for example the parse of legion
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/17 - Antorus
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/13 - Tos
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/11 - NightHold
See how the parses are more distributed and homogeneous than bfa.
Why?
Simple, the spec / classes were better thought out and more interesting to play.

This means that in spite of players who use the classes in the middle, they have an adequate ILV, but these fail to excel even in favorable situations (they are mostly mediocre) because:

1) they do not have the necessary tools to compete with the other specs and not only in terms of pure dps.
Example: take the arms warrior into consideration.
Why, despite being in mid-position, does it have such low pars (around 1500 against the 54,000 of havoc)?
Because it is a spec it dies too many times and therefore not desirable.
The BM also dies several times but this is a spec that has many utilities that the arms warrior does not have (immunty, stun base-line etc).
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/st...#metric=deaths

2) many fights fit little into these classes.

Furthermore you have posted an 80% ETP parse while the 90% ETP parse are even higher and 95% is similar to the 90% numbers.
So this invalidates your statement "As rotation helper addon developer I can only tell you this: No human being able to perform perfect rotation aside from few specs: BM hunter, Warrior fury and maybe ret pala. Classes being easy? Not even close . "
So it seems to me that there are many players who manage to use their class to the maximum by making few mistakes, thanks to the over-simplified nature that the different specs have.
I myself have been playing for several years and I have never felt the need for a tool to tell me what to do especially in bfa.

And anyway back to the topic, the best iterations in my opinion were seen in Wotlk with Mop to follow and finally Legion

[Muxtar]

WotLK is the best for me with TBC as close 2nd place. Had lots of free time and desire to play and raid back then. Zombie event was just awesome!
Legion was good as well but I didn't already have a lot of of free time due to real life growing up etc, so I had to quit during 7.2.

[babyback]

I enjoyed the game the most in TBC. The guild I played in performed really well and competed for world firsts up until it disbanded.

I had a huge amount of spare time to play. Once Wotlk came I didn’t have as much time and it wasn’t as enjoyable as it probably could’ve been.

Had a lot of fun in the beginning of Cata too. Realm first 85 priest woooo.

[TheDeeGee]

The past 10 months has been the best experience, cuz i havn't played

[whywhatwhowhenhow]

1) TBC for the nostalgia.
2) MoP for the gameplay (the golden era for Warlocks).
3) WotLK for the raiding. Everything else in WotLK was a bit shit, especially the dungeons.

[Kataroku]

1. MoP

- dungeons were a one-and-done affair
- the daily quest grind at launch was excessive
- cast while moving, minimal GCD, much fun
- PvP bugs went unnoticed for entire seasons (hunter stampede exploit, endless shaman lava burst procs, warrior taste-for-blood experiment)
- endless PvP CC chains (scatter shot -> freezing trap -> fear -> chastise -> repeat)

2. Legion

- would be #1 without the pathfinder nonsense

3. BfA

- leveling zones and instances were top-tier, outdoor content not so much
- you never feel as though you've "beaten the game" as in previous expansions
- pathfinder nonsense

4. Cata

- heroic dungeons before nerf = perfection
- PvP well balanced
- disjointed zones, portal hell

5. WotLK

- badge system was great, expansion hasn't aged well, however.

6. WoD

- despite the first raid being exceptional, the entire continent was one big Timeless Isle, which is not what
I wanted to spend an entire expansion doing immediately after the MoP content drought.
- pathfinder nonsense.

[terminaltrip421]

pre-wrath patch / pre-wrath nerfs. despite what felt like ruining feral for me by splitting feral and guardian ret getting the love it deserved and becoming OP and TG warriors' brief OPness made that pre-nerf time really fun. and made having been an altoholic worthwhile in that I got to play the flavor of the month pre-nerf.

[shise]

TBC was easily the best era.

My best memories are there, but also in WotLK. Both eras I played the most.

I´d probably go with when I killed Archimonde and defeated Illidan. We had just rerolled from the horde to the alliance and the last thing I thought we´d manage is to kill those while they were still current content! Not only that but we were the realm 3rd guild

[DSmithz]

While not a massive PvP guy I have few great wow experiences. I actually ran battlegrounds and arenas fairly regularly during Wrath, but hardly ever since. And yes I agreed Mists and Legion both provide good fun

[kaminaris]

1) make the comparison with the classes of the Classic does not make sense because you have times that were Vanillia was a new game on the market full of contradictions that in the course of the expansions have been partly improved.

And you think classes were super complex in TBC or wrath? Lol no, TBC was still mostly one button spam, Wotlk has slight complexity but people were still able to create one button macros.

2) Who ever said more buttons = more fun.
On this I agree with you.
Coming back to enha shaman, BfA's has not lost so many buttons compared to legion's, the one that lost all the passive artifacts that completed the spec and did not return, except in a very bland and clumsy way.

You literally lost one active ability and a bunch of passives/procs that might be as well be completely replaced by flat damage increase:
https://i.imgur.com/NQqLGCg.png

To give you an example first the primal build primer you had it base-line with the artifact, vanished Alfa-Wolf, the perk of legendary hands disappeared etc. .. are not buttons but are passive that in the passage from Legion to Bfa were removed meaningless.

Because it didn't really alter your rotation, instead your spec was more RNG reliant. Again, required you to have specific item.

And the truth is, when expansion transitions from the end of legion to begining of bfa your bases stats such as haste are being reduced a lot, thats why you think spec is "bland". And system where you have to get specific item (legendaries) for your class to feel good is shit system.

Those of BfA are hallucinating clearly unbalanced if you add up the last half of the parse you arrive around to make the parse of the Havoc.
But besides this there is a clear disparity between the first half and the last half, there is the empty thing which is not so marked in the Hellfire Citadel log (except for the first 2 specs).
Not to go back too far, take for example the parse of legion
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/17 - Antorus
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/13 - Tos
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/11 - NightHold
See how the parses are more distributed and homogeneous than bfa.
Why?
Simple, the spec / classes were better thought out and more interesting to play.

Lol no. Class balance has nothing to do with how fun is class to play, they were not better thought out. In fact some abilities were complete garbage in terms of lore and gameplay -> sidewinders.

This means that in spite of players who use the classes in the middle, they have an adequate ILV, but these fail to excel even in favorable situations (they are mostly mediocre) because:

1) they do not have the necessary tools to compete with the other specs and not only in terms of pure dps.
Example: take the arms warrior into consideration.

The ONLY class that excels in raids in terms of something different than just pure dps is warlock because warlock is tanky as fuck. Maybe just Havoc can hold a candle.

Why, despite being in mid-position, does it have such low pars (around 1500 against the 54,000 of havoc)?
Because it is a spec it dies too many times and therefore not desirable.
The BM also dies several times but this is a spec that has many utilities that the arms warrior does not have (immunty, stun base-line etc).
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/st...#metric=deaths

You are really taking some weird not related statistics. Arms if far less seen in mythic simply because it has low APM and Fury is generally better. It is a spec where you can brew yourself a tea while doing rotation.

2) many fights fit little into these classes.

Furthermore you have posted an 80% ETP parse while the 90% ETP parse are even higher and 95% is similar to the 90% numbers.
So this invalidates your statement "As rotation helper addon developer I can only tell you this: No human being able to perform perfect rotation aside from few specs: BM hunter, Warrior fury and maybe ret pala. Classes being easy? Not even close . "

Nope try again, 100% is still bound by human limitations, write good bot for all classes, make all dpses use it and you will see your ranks being at 95%+ (cause it also depends on rng, gear and tactics).

So it seems to me that there are many players who manage to use their class to the maximum by making few mistakes, thanks to the over-simplified nature that the different specs have.

Those "many players" are really small percentage compared to whole participation.

I myself have been playing for several years and I have never felt the need for a tool to tell me what to do especially in bfa.

Because you don't. Unless you are aspiring to top 1-200, you might also play any spec you like. You never needed one, but on the other hand, I havent seen much people who can play better. AND most important thing. Here is the rotation for enh shammy for legion:
https://github.com/kaminaris/MaxDps-.../main.lua#L152

And here is for BfA:
https://github.com/kaminaris/MaxDps-...nhancement.lua

In simcraft it is:
Legion:
https://github.com/simulationcraft/s...hancement.simc

BfA APL:
https://github.com/simulationcraft/s...hancement.simc

Which one is more complex?

[CiccioBello]

And you think classes were super complex in TBC or wrath? Lol no, TBC was still mostly one button spam, Wotlk has slight complexity but people were still able to create one button macros.

Tbc I played little for work reasons so I do not judge it, Wotlk instead yes better class design hands down.
Moreover I absolutely forbid the famous "one-button rotation macro" and the different add-ons like GSE. For me it's like cheating.

You literally lost one active ability and a bunch of passives/procs that might be as well be completely replaced by flat damage increase:
https://i.imgur.com/NQqLGCg.png

Few passive, but they made the difference, which you no longer have or you have, but you are always renouncing to something else because put in a bad way via talents or azibonus.

Lol no. Class balance has nothing to do with how fun is class to play, they were not better thought out. In fact some abilities were complete garbage in terms of lore and gameplay -> sidewinders.

Exactly, and that's exactly what I try to make you understand.
There is a reason why there was more variety in the classes earlier than now. In the first place there was the meta, and yet you saw classes that were not really performing, having good parse.
Why is this not happening in bfa? The answer is that they are ugly and too similar to each other more than in the past.
It is normal that then at that point I play the class that performs best
By Parse I mean not the percenitle but the number of iterations that that class has had in a given period of time.
The higher the value, the more people play that class.

The ONLY class that excels in raids in terms of something different than just pure dps is warlock because warlock is tanky as fuck. Maybe just Havoc can hold a candle.

subjective this thing

You are really taking some weird not related statistics. Arms if far less seen in mythic simply because it has low APM and Fury is generally better. It is a spec where you can brew yourself a tea while doing rotation.

Take the first mythical ETP boss
The same player plays the fury first and then the arm.
% Activity in both cases> 99% so it has not undergone particular mechanics to justify any downtime.

APM Arms: 72.6, dps 56K over 3min fight
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...t=1&type=casts

APM Fury: 68.69, dps 50K over 3min fight
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...t=1&type=casts

So it is absolutely not true that the arms is always less dps, less apm than a fury with the same gear
Here again give proof that you don't know what you're talking about.
Certainly a fury is slightly more banal than a arms.
In Bfa there is no longer the difficult class, maybe a little bit sub-rogue.

Nope try again, 100% is still bound by human limitations, write good bot for all classes, make all dpses use it and you will see your ranks being at 95%+ (cause it also depends on rng, gear and tactics).

What you say is true but it is also true that reaching certain standards is much simpler than then and not thanks to macros or anything else.

Those "many players" are really small percentage compared to whole participation.

and in any case at the level of numbers of parse are HC> MY> NM> LFR. So the hc, my players are not as few as you think.
The farmers, trasmo-runners, the battlePetters, for me they don't count because for them having a class that works (both in terms of numbers and game-play) or not, doesn't really matter.

Because you don't. Unless you are aspiring to top 1-200, you might also play any spec you like. You never needed one, but on the other hand, I havent seen much people who can play better. AND most important thing. Here is the rotation for enh shammy for legion:
https://github.com/kaminaris/MaxDps-.../main.lua#L152

And here is for BfA:
https://github.com/kaminaris/MaxDps-...nhancement.lua

In simcraft it is:
Legion:
https://github.com/simulationcraft/s...hancement.simc

BfA APL:
https://github.com/simulationcraft/s...hancement.simc

Which one is more complex?

I read your bfa file lua file.
And thanks to the fucking thing that is more complex you put in code on talents that nobody uses from the beginning of expansion, trinket that someone doesn't even use, weapons too, you put the primal primer build that nobody uses for months.
Furthermore your code is more complex due to the different perks coming from external sources and net of this it is reduced a lot, like (if not less) than the legion code.
In the legion code, where are the legendaries?

[Linri]

2006 - 2010
so some Vanilla through end of Wrath or something like that

basically the first few years i started playing lol

[Raugnaut]

Imo, A few expansions had different "Best" experience. MoP, for instance, had both the best tanking, and the best version of warlocks. Imo, Cata was best for Druids, WOD best for warriors, hunters/DKs had the best version in Wrath, and Paladins had the best version in BC (Before Blizz started stripping Paladins of utility buffs)

[Bjay]

Imo people's best wow experience will be at the time they had the best group of people to play the game with and will have much less to do with the game itself.

This guy nailed it. The topic is so incredibly subjective which makes this really the only credible answer. Beginning of Cataclysm was the best time for me (as well as my friends). It's not because the game was better then than in other expansions, it was because my tight knit group of friends were all playing enthusiastically together.