Why exactly are people so anti-LFR?

[Frozenbro]

Something needs to replace it then because if the vast majority finish their gearing in a month, what do you expect them to do? Why is it raiders should be the only ones with long term progression goals?

Thats why you leave warforge in, you just remove titanforge cause its overkill, warforge means you still wanna keep doing the highest content you are able to for those warforge upgrades, but titanforge without a cap is just nonsense, in fact if they cap it so items cant go over +15 ilvls, then i would be just as happy.

You are an heroic raider and you are way over normal mode? good, you dont need it cause titanforge is removed/caped <--- this is what needs to happen but it doesn't.

[Redroniksre]

Thats why you leave warforge in, you just remove titanforge cause its overkill, warforge means you still wanna keep doing the highest content you are able to for those warforge upgrades, but titanforge without a cap is just nonsense, in fact if they cap it so items cant go over +15 ilvls, then i would be just as happy.

You are an heroic raider and you are way over normal mode? good, you dont need it cause titanforge is removed/caped <--- this is what needs to happen but it doesn't.

What about instead of that, just do lockouts again? I like the Benthic system (minus the occasionally op item) because it is a mix of RNG and planning. And if a rank 100 mythic raider feels obligated to do them to keep up with Method, then i cant really feel sorry for them.

[scarletanh]

Thats not the point, the point is that it happens regularly, yes dont pretend it doesnt cause it does, and this is the issue, the chance for an LFR item being better than a normal one shouldnt exist, the chance for a normal item being better than an heroic one shouldnt exist, and so on, you get the idea, the chance for this should be 0, thats why they should leave warforge in and remove titanforging, since it affects the linear progression that wow always had, im a cutting edge raider and we still do heroic runs cause surprise, titanforge still fucking exists, it should be removed for good, and yes it would indirectly affect LFR lucky drops, but who cares, you dont need an LFR titanforge for the content you do anyways.

Most of the time what I see is warforged. Titanforged is not like pebble along the roads. But then again, let just say it does happened, so they have 1 piece titanforged out of sheer absurd luck; WoW have 18 equipment slots, minus 2 for tarbard and shirt, helm, chest and shoulder cant be titanforged, neck is fixed, now they only have to work their luck for the other 11 slots?
My point being, because of the chance of TF, it's not giving any overwhelming advantages that you should be complaining, unless you are aiming for that world first or something.

[Frozenbro]

What about instead of that, just do lockouts again? I like the Benthic system (minus the occasionally op item) because it is a mix of RNG and planning. And if a rank 100 mythic raider feels obligated to do them to keep up with Method, then i cant really feel sorry for them.

Benthic is fine, i dont dislike it, its just poorly balanced cause they are extremely strong, they would've been fine as an heroic/mythic placeholder item so you are more useful during progression, but they arent, they are literally your Bis items until the tier ends, a catchup item being your BiS for a whole tier, something never seen before and probably the reason why most top tier raiders hate it.

[Frozenbro]

Most of the time what I see is warforged. Titanforged is not like pebble along the roads. But then again, let just say it does happened, so they have 1 piece titanforged out of sheer absurd luck; WoW have 18 equipment slots, minus 2 for tarbard and shirt, helm, chest and shoulder cant be titanforged, neck is fixed, now they only have to work their luck for the other 11 slots?
My point being, because of the chance of TF, it's not giving any overwhelming advantages that you should be complaining, unless you are aiming for that world first or something.

It does give an overwhelming advantage, you know that split runs are stronger than ever thanks to titanforging right? or are you suggesting that titanforging is fine cause it rarely happens TO YOU? what about the other 19 guys in the raid? oh now you see the issue right? and i never said anything about advantages tbh, i aimed at the fact that it encourages split runs way too much and makes the linear progression that wow always had be, well, not linear anymore.

[Redroniksre]

Benthic is fine, i dont dislike it, its just poorly balanced cause they are extremely strong, they would've been fine as an heroic/mythic placeholder item so you are more useful during progression, but they arent, they are literally your Bis items until the tier ends, a catchup item being your BiS for a whole tier, something never seen before and probably the reason why most top tier raiders hate it.

I dont know why we need it to be catch up. Like how dungeons now have a gear parallel with raiding, why cant we do the same with the open world? We know the majority of players dont raid above LFR, and i doubt they do much for M+ as well. Blizzard has proven they can make hard solo content (Mage Tower) so with a fresh Xpack why cant we just have an open world gear parallel too?

[Frozenbro]

I dont know why we need it to be catch up. Like how dungeons now have a gear parallel with raiding, why cant we do the same with the open world? We know the majority of players dont raid above LFR, and i doubt they do much for M+ as well. Blizzard has proven they can make hard solo content (Mage Tower) so with a fresh Xpack why cant we just have an open world gear parallel too?

That would be dope tbh, im always up for more content, i hate the removal of it, but like you are pointing out, said content should come along with appropiate difficulty, benthic isnt the case, you get them by drolling on your keyboard and boom BiS for the whole raid tier.

[scarletanh]

It does give an overwhelming advantage, you know that split runs are stronger than ever thanks to titanforging right? or are you suggesting that titanforging is fine cause it rarely happens TO YOU? what about the other 19 guys in the raid? oh now you see the issue right? and i never said anything about advantages tbh, i aimed at the fact that it encourages split runs way too much and makes the linear progression that wow always had be, well, not linear anymore.

Not sure if it just happened to you but for my playtime in BFA, I rarely see a TF, that's to me and to other 19 guys in the raid, yes. Split run to aim for a TF, sure, the chance of the piece you want to drop is there, multiple that with the chance of a TF happens to that piece, seem like a huge chance? @Avskildhet: and how many people have such luck like you? 1% of player base, no?

I would say this though, the ilvl inflating is mainly due to M+ reward item on raid level, that's the problem, if they can fix that, then it should be fine.

[Frozenbro]

Not sure if it just happened to you but for my playtime in BFA, I rarely see a TF, that's to me and to other 19 guys in the raid, yes. Split run to aim for a TF, sure, the chance of the piece you want to drop is there, multiple that with the chance of a TF happens to that piece, seem like a huge chance?

Im using 3 titanforge items atm, only 1 happened to me, the other 2 were traded to me, guess the reason why people were able to trade them to me, yep, you guessed right, titanforges on split runs/m+, but i wouldnt blame it on m+, its entirely on titanforging existing, m+ just makes it even more notorious cause people are able to trade stuff between them 24/7 thanks to the split run/m+ formula, even i have titanforges i have 0 use of outside of making me able to trade stuff for that slot to some1 else.

[Raelbo]

just remove titanforge cause its overkill

It's not overkill. The low probability of high TF ensures that.

titanforge without a cap is just nonsense

Nope, it's fine just as it is. Substantiate your point and maybe then there will something to discuss.

You are an heroic raider and you are way over normal mode? good, you dont need it cause titanforge is removed/caped <--- this is what needs to happen but it doesn't.

No heroic raider ever "needed" to run normal for TF items. It's entirely optional. What "needs" to happen is that the players who feel compelled to run lower modes for a slim chance of an incredibly lucky TF roll must get a grip and learn how to say "no" to content that they neither need nor enjoy.

[scarletanh]

Im using 3 titanforge items atm, only 1 happened to me, the other 2 were traded to me, guess the reason why people were able to trade them to me, yep, you guessed right, titanforges on split runs/m+, but i wouldnt blame it on m+, its entirely on titanforging existing, m+ just makes it even more notorious cause people are able to trade stuff between them 24/7 thanks to the split run/m+ formula, even i have titanforges i have 0 use of outside of making me able to trade stuff for that slot to some1 else.

It's not overkill. The low probability of high TF ensures that.



Nope, it's fine just as it is. Substantiate your point and maybe then there will something to discuss.



No heroic raider ever "needed" to run normal for TF items. It's entirely optional. What "needs" to happen is that the players who feel compelled to run lower modes for a slim chance of an incredibly lucky TF roll must get a grip and learn how to say "no" to content that they neither need nor enjoy.

Thanks Raelbo for phrasing my point to him once again. The point of TF is its low chance, you can force yourself to engage in that grind of stupid low chance, or just be normal and enjoy the thing.

[Frozenbro]

No heroic raider ever "needed" to run normal for TF items. It's entirely optional. What "needs" to happen is that the players who feel compelled to run lower modes for a slim chance of an incredibly lucky TF roll must get a grip and learn how to say "no" to content that they neither need nor enjoy.

Do i really need to explain again that we arent talking about your very own titanforge chance only? if you can't realize why titanforge affects item lvl inflation, split runs and how a raid core gets geared, then you probably should just be happy with your LFR titanforges, cause anyone who plays at a semi decent lvl knows the harm of titanforge, but yeah enjoy your lucky titanforges on droll worthy content.

[Lurker1]

They miss controlling other players its as simple as that.

[Raelbo]

It does give an overwhelming advantage, you know that split runs are stronger than ever thanks to titanforging right? or are you suggesting that titanforging is fine cause it rarely happens TO YOU? what about the other 19 guys in the raid? oh now you see the issue right? and i never said anything about advantages tbh, i aimed at the fact that it encourages split runs way too much and makes the linear progression that wow always had be, well, not linear anymore.

Split runs happened long before TF existed and will continue to happen even if TF is removed.

Split runs exist because of a small but highly competitive sub-community in the game who have time to burn and are prepared to do whatever they can to gain a competitive advantage over others. It has nothing to do with TF.

TF exists to serve everyone in the game, not just the <1% who bother with split runs.

[Lurker1]

Do i really need to explain again that we arent talking about your very own titanforge chance only? if you can't realize why titanforge affects item lvl inflation, split runs and how a raid core gets geared, then you probably should just be happy with your LFR titanforges, cause anyone who plays at a semi decent lvl knows the harm of titanforge, but yeah enjoy your lucky titanforges on droll worthy content.

"but yeah enjoy your lucky titanforges on droll worthy content. "Sounds like someone is mad here to me it will be ok sir you can still play you hard trash.

[Raelbo]

Do i really need to explain again that we arent talking about your very own titanforge chance only? if you can't realize why titanforge affects item lvl inflation, split runs and how a raid core gets geared, then you probably should just be happy with your LFR titanforges, cause anyone who plays at a semi decent lvl knows the harm of titanforge, but yeah enjoy your lucky titanforges on droll worthy content.

Do I really need to explain how what you're talking about is a tiny fraction of the playerbase who will game every aspect of the system in order to extract whatever advantage they can?

Do I really need to explain that a system like titanforging was designed taking an holistic view of the playerbase at large?

Maybe it's time you slowed down, evaluated the choices you're making in the game and re-assess your priorities. Because it's pretty clear to me that you're not in a good space, and while you'd love to lay the blame for your dissatisfaction on a feature like TF, it's pretty clear that it's not the problem at all.

[kebabmasterxd]

It's not overkill. The low probability of high TF ensures that.



Nope, it's fine just as it is. Substantiate your point and maybe then there will something to discuss.



No heroic raider ever "needed" to run normal for TF items. It's entirely optional. What "needs" to happen is that the players who feel compelled to run lower modes for a slim chance of an incredibly lucky TF roll must get a grip and learn how to say "no" to content that they neither need nor enjoy.

please explain why titanforging is fine.

[Alphatorg]

Im both agree and disagree with your point, it surely helps said MMO a lot of people make emotional connection, but with todays toxicity in communities do you think this will happen? guilds nowdays want you to have cutting edge of every raid of the last 2 expacks, have near-mythic gears, have 1.6k score in Raider IO and crazy warcraft logs or your option is a casual guild that will most likely waste your time because people come not giving a shit about what time they should get online or dont even know the name of the boss they will face in the raid.

Im done looking for hardcore Mythic guilds, but I also dont want to waste 3 hours because of said reasons.

Edit: That being said I love to join a guild if they are atleast near my standards.

Maybe just think for a tiny second about what you're spouting. Guilds actually need new players very much. They can't just arbitrarily set insanely inflated requirements, because then they won't be able to fill/sustain their roster. In reality recruitment mostly boils down to logs.
Maybe it's not them that's toxic, but a certain someone with an inflated sense of entitlement.

[Feral Druid ist Op]

Incredibly aggressive? LOL. Aggressive is better than making up fake facts and not being able to support any of the things you claim about how LFR has made WoW into a raiding utopia. You consistently try to warp my statements into something they aren't, and you're hypocritical with the usage of ad hominem to support your posts and opinions.

You're what's called "thoroughly defeated". I'd quit if I were you, too.

just ignore him if he would have spent half as much time in the game as in the froums trolling ppl he would have been 8/8 HC or 3/8 Mythic for a long time

This trash can of a response is absolutely what you expect from a turd who spends his life posting 5000 trash can posts on a wow forum, what are you doing AFKing in Stormwind while constantly spamming the forums? Honestly if you think LFR is worth playing, you must be one of the kids who plays games on the easiest setting and feels accomplished. Also report me for calling you a trash can Idc about my forum account you trash can.

this is exactly what they are doing trolling 5 hours a day in the froums and claiming they have no time to raid

[Raelbo]

please explain why titanforging is fine.

Please explain why it's not. I mean, that's the real problem with you people. If you guys want to make the assertion that TF is terrible, it's on you to explain why, and it's on you to make sure your argument is robust enough to stand up to scrutiny.


But yeah, sure, I'll bite - if nothing else to contrast just how pathetic the anti-TF "argument" has been thus far:

The purpose of titanforging is to enhance the gearing process in a manner that ensures that players continue to find gear rewards much deeper into a tier. Because of the way the feature is implemented, it tends to have a relatively small impact early in the tier where players are rapidly gearing up with new equippment. The real impact from TF is later in the tier when regular upgrades have tapered off almost entirely.

The benefits of TF are numerous to the game:
1) It makes the content rewarding for longer.
2) It helps to ensure that guilds that are hitting walls in progress can continue to grow in gear power even where, previously, no further upgrades would be possible. It's kinda like a gradual nerf over time, but based on long term effort rather than just handing the players a nerf.
3) It makes a lot more of the content potentially relevant to everyone without making it mandatory.

Titanforging is effective because it removes one of the most significant barriers preventing players from participating in content, namely the certainty that you won't get a reward. If there is zero chance of getting gear from a boss, then it's going to feel pointless killing the boss. But that doesn't mean that there needs to be certainty of getting a reward to make people feel like the activity is worthwhile. All they need is the knowledge that there is a chance, even if it's pretty small.

Titanforging is not about giving people a reason to go out and do content that they don't enjoy. It's about taking away the single biggest reason people will avoid doing content that they would otherwise be happy doing.

When I hear some random guy on MMO-C moaning about how terrible TF is because it's forcing him to do a whole ton of content he hates, I just facepalm. Because clearly he doesn't get it.