Class identity for Druid, already fine?

[Wangming]

The shitty Rogue part is kinda unique right now though. As Feral... well... Sorry, this isn't your expansion.

Wasn't that alway the case since Feral and Guardian split? Feral is simply a worse rogue.

[FAILoZOFF]

Wasn't that alway the case since Feral and Guardian split? Feral is simply a worse rogue.

yes, feels more like 4th rogue spec than its own "class"
Ferals born out of the idea to take a rogue and warr basic ideas/mechanics and make them into their own bastardized forms. On their own they were quite shitty at what they did and how they worked, but whole magic happened when you could utilize both AND even add in some helpful spells to the mix.
After the split we are stuck with slighty less bastardized specs that don't quite feel any special or unique. Do not like.
Again, I am not asking for ferals/or even druids to be the most effective at EVERYTHING as some people are implying. I just want my hybrid/support aspect back.
Also people hurr burrring about bearcatting in cata miss the whole reason why it was even broken in first place. It wasn't because tanks could dps, all tanks could. Its just that because of vengeance other tanks could not... while they were off tanking.... unlike druids. Vengeance is long gone, and tanks can dps just fine regardless if they are tanking or off tanking. Then its just a matter of balance.

[Devilyaki]

Think a lot of classes have a bit of sub classes in them due to the vast differences the specs bring. For druid the main theme is nature but then branches off to their respected fields in such.

[jellmoo]

Wasn't that alway the case since Feral and Guardian split? Feral is simply a worse rogue.

I've never mained a Feral so I'm no expert, but I would say that at least Feral has had more complex and engaging rotations than Rogue specs usually have had.

(Then again, my take has always been that a Feral Druid should feel like a wild animal. Pouncing in combat, pinning the opponent, using speed and aggression. I never felt that the Rogue combo point style really fit the mechanics to fulfill the fantasy)

[Sylar Hao]

So you aren't actually willing to pay the hybrid tax after all? Because that's the price you and your group would have to pay for that.

I am... Trading some of my dps in exchange of doing some semiconstant off-healing, or off-tanking some mobs, helping in critical moments... Seriously... can't your read?

[huth]

I am... Trading some of my dps in exchange of doing some semiconstant off-healing, or off-tanking some mobs, helping in critical moments... Seriously... can't your read?

None of which you can do at remotely competent levels, meaning you're just a millstone they have to carry around.

[Argenon]

As a balance druid, I want to be able to do competitive DPS. The hybrid tax is an outdated idea. As a DPS, my chosen spec should be viable and not a hindrance to my group/raid. I really don't want to do any off-healing/tanking; those are not my chosen role.

IMO, today's definition of a hybrid class should be a class that can perform more than two roles (with melee DPS and caster DPS technically being different roles), which would be druid, shaman, paladin, and monk.

[Sylar Hao]

None of which you can do at remotely competent levels, meaning you're just a millstone they have to carry around.

We can't right now but if the class was changed towards a real shapeshifter (constantly changing between your main spec form and the offspecs forms) and doing off-spec tasks while not in your main form, it could work perfectly fine. That's what I'm trying to suggest, instead of being stuck in a single form for 99,99% of the time of a fight, we could be something like 75% main spec, 25% off specs, supporting.

[Argenon]

We can't right now but if the class was changed towards a real shapeshifter (constantly changing between your main spec form and the offspecs forms) and doing off-spec tasks while not in your main form, it could work perfectly fine. That's what I'm trying to suggest, instead of being stuck in a single form for 99,99% of the time of a fight, we could be something like 75% main spec, 25% off specs, supporting.

I don't see the point of this? When would you not be in your main form? So as a DPS, why would I need to switch during a raid?

Then, if I am only in my form 75% of the time, then I am not pulling the damage I should be and hindering my groups progress; personally I don't think most boomkins would even want this.

[Sylar Hao]

I don't see the point of this? When would you not be in your main form? So as a DPS, why would I need to switch during a raid?

Then, if I am only in my form 75% of the time, then I am not pulling the damage I should be and hindering my groups progress; personally I don't think most boomkins would even want this.

Just different points of view. In my opinion, doing damage and also supporting the raid it's a cool thing. Plus, what's the point of being a shapeshifter if I don't shapeshift at all the whole raid, what's the point of having 3 baseline forms if I use one 99,99% of the time? The current status of druids doesn't fit the fantasy of a shapeshifter who adapts to different situations.

I loved the TBC era when in my raid I was a full feral (cat) focused druid who constantly supported throughout fights, relieving preassure from tanks and or healers and using my whole kit, not just the cat form abilities.

But then again, it's just my opinion and vision of the class.

[Argenon]

Just different points of view. In my opinion, doing damage and also supporting the raid it's a cool thing. Plus, what's the point of being a shapeshifter if I don't shapeshift at all the whole raid, what's the point of having 3 baseline forms if I use one 99,99% of the time? The current status of druids doesn't fit the fantasy of a shapeshifter who adapts to different situations.

I loved the TBC era when in my raid I was a full feral (cat) focused druid who constantly supported throughout fights, relieving preassure from tanks and or healers and using my whole kit, not just the cat form abilities.

But then again, it's just my opinion and vision of the class.

I don't think we lose the identity of shapeshifter. We still shapeshift to fill certain roles, we just keep that role for the whole encounter (boss fight). Depending on needs of each boss fight you could switch roles and shapeshift into what is needed in the same raid. I know sometimes our raid needs an extra healer for certain fights and another one of our Moonkins will go tree to fill the need, so they are switching during the raid.

It sounds like you are wanting to shapeshift in the middle of a specific encounter and even this happens in game. As a Moonkin, I shapeshift in certain fights to move around; tiger dash can be very helpful. Other small circumstances of this have shown up randomly but not necessarily as Blizz intended; I remember in Cata in Dragonsoul, I went bear during Ultraxion to help the tanks cleave something or other. Even more, I shapeshift all the time into travel form (land/air/sea).

Finally, I think what you are looking for doesn't necessarily exist in WoW. In the RPG we play there are three roles (role check confirms this) and they are tank, damage, and healer. So we play our chosen role. You want a 4th role of support or hybrid, which exists in other Blizz games like Heroes or Overwatch, but not in WoW.

[huth]

Just different points of view. In my opinion, doing damage and also supporting the raid it's a cool thing. Plus, what's the point of being a shapeshifter if I don't shapeshift at all the whole raid, what's the point of having 3 baseline forms if I use one 99,99% of the time? The current status of druids doesn't fit the fantasy of a shapeshifter who adapts to different situations.

I loved the TBC era when in my raid I was a full feral (cat) focused druid who constantly supported throughout fights, relieving preassure from tanks and or healers and using my whole kit, not just the cat form abilities.

But then again, it's just my opinion and vision of the class.

But you're not supporting your raid. Your raid would be better off getting somebody dedicated to the role. That's why the hybrid tax was removed in the first place, the whole concept just wasn't working out.

[Tyze]

Balance is more sun and moon. We used to be more nature which I miss, such as hurricane.

[Shadowferal]

I used to think of the old specs (original talent trees) as: Healing; Root and nuke; and shapeshifters.
And I loved being a shapeshifter.

[Ashenhoof]

Amazing how most of the discussion here is about playstyle.

"Neeey, I like to shapeshift around doing nothing."

You people realize that todays specs for druid more closly mirror druidic lore.

Guardian druids are Druids of the Claw from Warcraft 3.
I didn't see them switching between multiple forms during WC3.

Blizzard enriched on this lore with other druidic circles like the Druids of the Moon and Druids of the Branch.

I for one like my druid of the claw bear character and the current direction Blizzard was/is going with druids.

Well, you all could play Classic where druidic circles don't really matter. *shrug*

[Shakana]

Druids don't suffer from class identity, druids are a complex class doesn't mean they suffer from identity, which they really don't.

[Lora]

>druid main since beta of vanilla OG.

Druid has lost class identity the most out of all classes throughout the years. It's also had the strongest but it's deteriorated massively. We used to automatically have everything across the specs. Then they made the awful decision to split feral into feral and guardian and THAT was a fucking insanely big stab through the back. They removed tree form as the resto form. They've removed iconic abilities like hurricane and renamed other ones. They fucked with our powershifting for a while with shapeshifting not removing roots or snares and there was a fuckton of backlash for it and they reverted that god awful change. Blizz can't seem to do right by us anymore.

[Ashenhoof]

>druid main since beta of vanilla OG.

Watch out, don't choke on your epeen.

Druid has lost class identity the most out of all classes throughout the years. It's also had the strongest but it's deteriorated massively. We used to automatically have everything across the specs. Then they made the awful decision to split feral into feral and guardian and THAT was a fucking insanely big stab through the back. They removed tree form as the resto form. They've removed iconic abilities like hurricane and renamed other ones. They fucked with our powershifting for a while with shapeshifting not removing roots or snares and there was a fuckton of backlash for it and they reverted that god awful change. Blizz can't seem to do right by us anymore.

Yeah, well, no. Actually Blizzard enriched the class identity of druids through spec identity, but sure, stay in your weird nostalgia bubble. You do you, you have classic for that.

[Lora]

Watch out, don't choke on your epeen.



Yeah, well, no. Actually Blizzard enriched the class identity of druids through spec identity, but sure, stay in your weird nostalgia bubble. You do you, you have classic for that.

thanks for your unnecessary toxicity m8. v useful.

[Shelly]

>druid main since beta of vanilla OG.

Druid has lost class identity the most out of all classes throughout the years. It's also had the strongest but it's deteriorated massively. We used to automatically have everything across the specs. Then they made the awful decision to split feral into feral and guardian and THAT was a fucking insanely big stab through the back. They removed tree form as the resto form. They've removed iconic abilities like hurricane and renamed other ones. They fucked with our powershifting for a while with shapeshifting not removing roots or snares and there was a fuckton of backlash for it and they reverted that god awful change. Blizz can't seem to do right by us anymore.

I'd say that all the changes made to push for spec identity actually make the Druid class far closer to the druid of WC3 and the druids as put out by lore in the game.

The simple fact that our characters can and do change to multiple forms already makes them incredibly OP compared to druids of lore where the form you choose is directly related to the druidic school/path you follow. Druid of the Claw, Druid of the Talon, Druid of the Grove, Druid of the Fang and so on.

If anything I'd like to see druids push for more spec or class customization based on picking druidic schools for alternate forms.