Is it possible that Anduin would be instrumental in Sylvanas' sort of "redemption"?

[Soon-TM]

It isn't bad to have peaceseeking characters per se. But when the world bends over backwards to make sure they're right in all instances and the whole cast is composed of such, the plot loses proactivity and conflict.

There is an interesting read here, where we can see that Manduin has a lot of elements of a Mary Sue type of character, "black hole" version.

As for Baineboi, I'd start to getting seriously worried if I was appointed as Warchief, no matter by whom. That would mean that in a couple of years I'd very probably get over-the-rainbow crazy - in fact, as soon as the writers find themselves temporarily out of villains.

[Powerogue]

She has to kill Anduin. And Jaina. Yes, that will turn every player against her I am sure!

I'm pretty sure she could kill and zombify every single Horde leader and we'd still see at least a solid 30% approval rate on her polls.

We saw the same with Garrosh as we saw into his head his insane fantasy of killing every Horde and Alliance leader and drowning the world in purple Old God madness and still had some people going "yeah, okay, that's fine."

I really don't see Sylvanas "I see myself as a goddess of unparalleled death and destruction" touching azerite finding common ground with Anduin "I see a world of butterflies, peace and rainbows" touching azerite finding common ground and working together any time soon.

[Kyphael]

I'm pretty sure she could kill and zombify every single Horde leader and we'd still see at least a solid 30% approval rate on her polls.

WoW player Waifu #1 no matter what.

[Super Dickmann]

I'm pretty sure she could kill and zombify every single Horde leader and we'd still see at least a solid 30% approval rate on her polls.

Don't undersell it. Killing pretty much any of her rebel opposition that wasn't a plot device created to die like Zelling would vastly improve her in my eyes. It'd be the first time she meaningfully improved the Horde since she took her position. Killing all of the rebel leadership would make her one of the greats.

[KrakHed]

She has to kill Anduin. And Jaina. Yes, that will turn every player against her I am sure!

No, see, she has to kiss Anduin's feet and beg forgiveness. No one would tolerate her after that.

[Wangming]

I think Saurfang is still salvageable. But I could live with Baine dying.
And the Tauren actually have replacements.

If she would kill Saurfang and Baine I would forgive her. If they stay dead I will resub.

[Super Dickmann]

No, see, she has to kiss Anduin's feet and beg forgiveness. No one would tolerate her after that.

Now here's someone who knows what's up.

@Nymrohd

Saurfang is a great character conceptually but his role in the story and the story and setting itself are absolutely foul vis a vis him, which is why he's so insufferable and why I'll pop open a cold one when he kicks the bucket in some faux heroic death while mournful violin music plays in the background. Bob just needs a change of motivation while doing the exact same thing to be a coherent character, that is a massive ungrateful pussy. All the others are fifty shades of irrelevant.

Baine is Baine.

[Powerogue]

I think Saurfang is still salvageable. But I could live with Baine dying.
And the Tauren actually have replacements (not to mention that if Baine died, I could see Magatha going for it; also I could totally see Magatha coming to the rescue during a Siege of Thunder Bluff)

Good lord, Magatha coming to "save the day" would be the most ridiculous moment ever.
Magatha: You can't take over Thunder Bluff! That's my job!

[KrakHed]

I think Saurfang is still salvageable. But I could live with Baine dying.
And the Tauren actually have replacements (not to mention that if Baine died, I could see Magatha going for it; also I could totally see Magatha coming to the rescue during a Siege of Thunder Bluff)

I honestly think all the characters are salvageable, but that requires them to be placed into a very different story context. Saurfang is good so long as he's allowed to be what he was made to be. A man of action who does badass shit because he's both an orc warrior and a meme. This story pulled him out of his proper role.

Baine is a sadly underdeveloped mess of a character. He's so often forced to be the token good Horde that he's not allowed to ever fight for the Horde. He needs to be relevant outside the context of the faction war in order to grow, but he was cut from Legion where he would have had the chance to do so.

[Super Dickmann]

I honestly think all the characters are salvageable, but that requires them to be placed into a very different story context. Saurfang is good so long as he's allowed to be what he was made to be. A man of action who does badass shit because he's both an orc warrior and a meme. This story pulled him out of his proper role.

I disagree. Saurfang could be, and in fact is a decently fleshed out character following his A Good War and even in-game characterization at least until Lost Honor when he becomes a completely lost cause. But this is a black and white story where for every character but him, good has no cost and when even he abdicates all responsibility and has it never referenced again. BFA Saurfang can only be a good character in a morally grey setting where his introspective journey is the actual focus and where consequence is a thing that exists.

However, he's basically a glorified side character and author's pet who simultaneously appears too much and too little, while being used to shill the only character even worse than he and his two amigos Baine and Thrall. This added to by being cast as a towering rebel leader who did nothing wrong and who everyone is immediately fine with despite guilt, reflection on his past and present actions and so forth being his main traits in this story.

[derpkitteh]

i wish order hall stories would have continued from legion, and my highlord could have given her the only redemption she deserves, pumping holy energy through her chest with ashbringer.

so, that form of redemption could be possible from anduin, since his sword's got holy energy in it now.

i think at this point, the main reason i want her to die is to hurt her beta orbiters, more than i want her to die for anything she's done in game.

[KrakHed]

I disagree. Saurfang could be, and in fact is a decently fleshed out character following his A Good War and even in-game characterization at least until Lost Honor when he becomes a completely lost cause. But this is a black and white story where for every character but him, good has no cost and when even he abdicates all responsibility and has it never referenced again. BFA Saurfang can only be a good character in a morally grey setting where his introspective journey is the actual focus and where consequence is a thing that exists.

However, he's basically a glorified side character and author's pet who simultaneously appears too much and too little, while being used to shill the only character even worse than he and his two amigos Baine and Thrall. This added to by being cast as a towering rebel leader who did nothing wrong and who everyone is immediately fine with despite guilt, reflection on his past and present actions and so forth being his main traits in this story.

And the issue in Lost Honor is his failing to be a man of action, moping in a fucking cell instead. If he has to be introspective, he should still be a badass at the same time.

[Aresk]

I think an interesting choice would be someone young that is not yet so marked by loss and trauma that he can only think in terms of death and war. Someone that still believes in the Horde's ideals: Zekhan.

After Thrall and his horrible decision-making, I'm personally hoping that any young Warchief would have at least some leadership experience.

- - - Updated - - -

I think Saurfang is still salvageable. But I could live with Baine dying.
And the Tauren actually have replacements (not to mention that if Baine died, I could see Magatha going for it; also I could totally see Magatha coming to the rescue during a Siege of Thunder Bluff)

The Grimtotem are the only tauren tribe to have an official alliance with the Alliance; I would not think that that the leader of the tribe would make a great Horde leader. But then I'm still pissed at Magatha for the whole mak'gora thing and the first time she seized Thunder Bluff, so I'm probably biased in this topic.

- - - Updated - - -

Re: New Warchief. There are legitimately no good candidates. Ideally we'd have a young orc do it, but there are no young orcs since Mists killed them all. I do think Baine is the likeliest choice though, given his build up and the dev statements about how every race would have their place in the chair. He's a singularly awful pick, but preferable to Thrall in the sense that if Thrall gets in the chair, there's no getting him out, whereas Baine has a larger chance to fail and be replaced.

I wouldn't mind Nazgrim. If people are already torn between an orc (Saurfang) and an undead (Sylvanas), why not just take the best of both worlds?

[Super Dickmann]

And the issue in Lost Honor is his failing to be a man of action, moping in a fucking cell instead. If he has to be introspective, he should still be a badass at the same time.

A character like him doesn't necessarily suffer from having a moment where he's unable to proceed. Just not in this way. Saurfang not being able to recommit immediately after his peptalk with memeboi and later still walking out would be a very strong beat in another, much better story. But not in this one. A characterization and mental profile like that when in a scene opposite "Can do no wrong" Wrynn is just out of place. Saurfang and A Good War in general is from a different genre and even setting from the story that followed and so is Old Soldier. It's like if Mike Ehrmantraut were opposite a Carebear.

@Aresk

This is a patrician thought.

[Black Goat]

The most convoluted and mongoloid plan I have ever seen. Sylvanas should retire then, she is not fit to be a world savior.

I mean, it's more plausible than your psycho-analysis of a fictional character. When I read your post it actually reads like you think you've spoken to Anduin and you know him like a real person, kind of like when you talk about your waifu Alleria. I find it extremely creepy that a real person pretends to know this much about a fictional character. But, I mean, your posts usually go too far, anyway. Par for the course.

There is a larger picture to what Sylvanas is doing. Blizzard is just turning the pages at a snail's pace. If you still think Sylvanas just wanted to burn the Tree for shits and giggles only, stay tuned.

I personally feel like Anduin would want to redeem her. Forgiveness seems to be his thing, not that killing nonsense.

[Mardux]

I mean, yes. How is she supposed to rule the Tauren people if Sylvanas kills them? Magatha wants to rule the tauren which means that the tauren are actually important to her.

By that logic, the people of stormwind are just as important to Sylvanas.

[Varodoc]

I mean, it's more plausible than your psycho-analysis of a fictional character. When I read your post it actually reads like you think you've spoken to Anduin and you know him like a real person, kind of like when you talk about your waifu Alleria. I find it extremely creepy that a real person pretends to know this much about a fictional character. But, I mean, your posts usually go too far, anyway. Par for the course.

There is a larger picture to what Sylvanas is doing. Blizzard is just turning the pages at a snail's pace. If you still think Sylvanas just wanted to burn the Tree for shits and giggles only, stay tuned.

I personally feel like Anduin would want to redeem her. Forgiveness seems to be his thing, not that killing nonsense.

Your first paragraph is a bunch of BS. Having a very good understanding of a fictional character doesn't make you a freak. Alleria is not and never was my waifu, since I don't like her only for her physical appearance, and I barely talk about her nowadays.

I stopped thinking Sylvanas just wanted to burn the tree for shit and giggles back when A Good War was released, so more than a year ago. Sylvanas having an ulterior motive doesn't change the fact that she committed genocide. The "larger picture" of Sylvanas is nonsensical, forced, and could have easily been avoided if she had just made some kind of peace summit instead of committing genocide to "unite the factions against a common enemy" (we all know this is her big picture, that's how predictable Blizzard's writing is).

What you feel doesn't matter. Facts don't care about your feelings. Anduin made it clear several times that he thinks there can be no peace so long as Sylvanas is warchief.

[Thetruth1400]

Anduin straight up said, "There can be no peace as long as she leads the Horde." and it's unlikely she's just going to give that up and accept punishment, up to and most likely including, permanent death to pay for her crimes as a leader.

He may grieve for her, but she has to go, there's no way around that.

Frankly, I think it'll be extremely poor writing if they pull the "Oh she had her reasons for all she did so everyone just has to totally accept it and forgive her!" That's shit writing, especially with the scope of her crimes. She literally committed genocide, you don't just get to do that and have everyone forgive it at the end of the day.

[Black Goat]

What you feel doesn't matter. Facts don't care about your feelings. Anduin made it clear several times that he thinks there can be no peace so long as Sylvanas is warchief.

Well, coming from a person who posted a paragraph about their "feels" about what Anduin would or would not do, I don't take much away from you telling me what I feel doesn't matter. Your post was 100% not a fact, either, bud.

You'd be wise to take some of your own medicine. What you feel Anduin would or would not do is not a fact, and he doesn't have a track record for killing people, despite your level of understanding.

None of what you said is a fact. It's common sense that he wants her ousted, but that's a far cry from killing her himself. Unless you aim to change your story now?

[Varodoc]

Well, coming from a person who posted a paragraph about their "feels" about what Anduin would or would not do, I don't take much away from you telling me what I feel doesn't matter.

You'd be wise to take some of your own medicine. What you feel Anduin would or would not do is not a fact, and he doesn't have a track record for killing people, despite your level of understanding.

None of what you said is a fact. It's common sense that he wants her ousted, but that's a far cry from killing her himself. Unless you aim to change your story now?

I didn't present my feels, I explained why the OP's proposal is not happening based on Anduin's characterization.

and he doesn't have a track record for killing people, despite your level of understanding.

Because he doesn't want to kill people. He wants to minimize the losses. Hence why he only wants Sylvanas dead.

None of what you said is a fact. It's common sense that he wants her ousted, but that's a far cry from killing her himself. Unless you aim to change your story now?

The topic of discussion is not "if he will kill her", it's "if he will forgive her", and no, it's not happening. You just admitted it yourself. It's common sense that he wants her ousted, not forgiven.