The myths about Classic that have fallen apart

[Wilian]

I have literally never seen anyone anywhere ever claim this.

It's true tho'. Most of this list is just blogging personal subjective views tho' and of little value in real discussion.

[Mrbleedinggums]

Old talent trees definitely are better, though.

They only give the illusion of being better because you're slowly unlocking towards your cookie cutter spec. For me, I'm leveling my lock so I just did cookie cutter leveling spec since it's stupid to level any other way. Sure, I was happy when I finally got to the point I could talent into nightfall for that 2/4% proc of an instant-cast Shadow Bolt, but i knew the only reason it seemed interesting/rewarding was because I had to slowly unlock towards it. If it was a talent choice at level 30, i'd still be happy to finally get it. But there are less talent choices and all the "optional" Classic choices such as 1/2/3% more damage with shadow spells I would automatically get at, say, level 40.

All Blizzard did with talent trees is give you the automatic talents that you absolutely should have picked or you would be as optimal as a ret pally. Besides, if they actually wanted people to have more choice then they shouldn't have made respeccing cost a fortune. If the talent respecs were cheaper or at least had a smaller timeframe (it'll only go down 1 cost tier per MONTH) then sure. But as it stands? You have to pick the correct talents at the start with no "Are you sure" mechanic in case you accidentally click the wrong talent. Oops, guess it's either spend 50g or wait a month for it to be reduced to 40g.

[KaPe]

2 is subjective, 3 it rly depends, streamers rushing max lv are not the entire playerbase

i would say onl 1 4 and 5 are true

Streamers influence their followers, who in turn spread it to other people. It will never be "everyone", but it's far more popular than it would have been otherwise. It certainly does hurt the "levelling is a journey" or "dungeons were all about careful pulling and CC" narrative when spellcleave is the dominant strategy.

Not really sure how bad it really is, but it does make it harder to find group as "non-meta" classes.

[sopeonaroap]

For the ten millionth time, tedium is not difficulty. Vanilla raids were tedious, not hard.

naxx had a bunch of mechanics that stopped you from saving yourself and forced others to save you in 2-3 seconds or you died

that's HARD, it's not tedious. nowadays we'll have DBM scream at us so it's easier, but things that kill you if you react too slowly is the definition of hard/difficult

[david0925]

the only takeaway for these kind of threads will just be both sides being extremely toxic to each other and throw out person opinions or anecdotes as "facts".

I do enjoy watching people acting as tribal as possible though so thanks. And for those open enough on either side to actual have a decent discussion, even bigger thanks.

[sopeonaroap]

Bullshit.

Retail's as populated as ever.

All this "X" will kill "Y" bullshit involving WoW needs to be thrown in a dumpster and never viewed again, until the day WoW does actually die.

retail subs are AT BEST 25% of "ever" lol. retail's phasing makes the low population FEEL even lower. retail isn't ok and that's why subs are so low they quit reporting them

[KaPe]

retail subs are AT BEST 25% of "ever" lol. retail's phasing makes the low population FEEL even lower. retail isn't ok and that's why subs are so low they quit reporting them

They never reported Classic subs, so going by this logic, it's also a complete failure?

Ignoring that, what MMO *does* report their subs instead of "accounts created" or "copies sold within X"? It doesn't happen nowadays.

[Steppen]

I agree on each and every point.

I only play Classic when I met some real friends to talk and laugh meanwhile. Otherwise, playin solo is just a fucking pain in the ass and very boring. I never feel like it.

[kamuimac]

Or maybe the fact that blizzard has constantly added new realms and free server transfers and people took advantage of it so they didn’t have to wait 3 hours in queue to play...

That may have played a large role in server populations.

those added servers are still low pop - meaning barely anyone transfered.

but sure keep living in denial

[yoma]

Guess Classic isn't for you. Best of luck.

[Mosotti]

"I will play classic months and years to come" Classic Myth 1
"Classic will kill Retail for good" Classic Myth 2
"We are proud to announce that we will push for world firsts in classic" Method Myth

1. I will
2. Retail is dead anyway, compared to what it was
3. Method never intended to raid classic, they knew they have no chance. They just made an event for money

[Kyranna]

I'm having a lot of fun for the second time, couldn't ask for much more than that. Classic is definitely a great experience, even 15 years later. I'm sorry that some people have to tell others about these "myths", none of which concerns me in the least.
Nothing is "hard" in a MMO, never was, never will be. The hardest part was coordinating logistically a huge raid force.

[RealRevChris]

Almost none of what you wrote is correct, especially 2, 3, and 7.

Actually, most of what he wrote is correct. I am loving Classic, but it is not anything like people were saying. If you believe it is, then you are living in a fantasy world.

[Shigma]

You guys are boring and spamming the forum with these useless posts is getting old pretty fast.

You like Classic? Good.
You don't like Classic? Good.

Now peace out.

[Sondrelk]

I am just looking forward to once the Ahn'qiraj event has come and gone and the players start asking for changes in earnest. Given the small amount of servers, and the high level of knowledge on how the game works, i cannot imagine the Scarab gong event will be what people remember, it will probably end up being a whole bunch of raiders who get it easily, and a much larger group of players complaining about how they were not available, or were on vacation or something for when it happened on their server.

And suddenly the crying for new servers, or a reset or whatever will come back in force.


Classic will probably end up pretty nice once the dust has settled from that and Naxxramas being defeated though, when the core playerbase has solodified and most of the players who ride the hype-wave have left, leaving a small but dedicated community.

[unbound]

Classic will soon be 3 weeks old and for many of us it's been a colossal experience in various different ways. On launch day, all my guildies and almost all my B-Net friends were desparately trying to get in, to have this old school experience. Many hours and days of gameplay have been devoted to Classic since then, and during that time we all verified the things we've been told over the months and years leading to the Classic launch ourselves. The hype train is slowing down and by now most people have quit the game already and I'm about to follow. So what about that hype we were being fed, mostly by influencers, streamers and youtubers turned out to be untrue?

1. Classic raids are very hard.

2. Old talent trees are better than the current ones

3. It’s about the journey, not the race to 60

4. Classic incentivizes player interaction, so everyone will suddenly become sociable and make friends

5. Getting into a dungeon group won't be a problem because there's no ilvl, r.io, achievements and armory.

6. Class quests, the holy grail of class fantasy

7. Classic is a great game for casuals, much better than modern WoW

1 - Please stop with your straw man arguments. Few actual said this. What they did say is that Classic raids weren't going to super cake walks to any noob who walks in...and that remains true.

2 - They absolutely are. You get some progress with every level once you hit 10. You have choices...it isn't like Retail where you pick a spec and have maybe 3 real choices. You can focus on one or more trees, and, in reality, plenty of people aren't playing default cookie-cutter specs. You may prefer Retail talents, but you can't objectively say they are better with far fewer choices, most of which don't really matter.

3 - Rofl...demonstrably false. The starter zones are *still* packed. You can't say "Look, I found a relative handful of people who raced to max level", ignore 95% of the player base, and try to call yourself right. That's just straight up lying.

4 - Rofl...again, demonstrably false. Zone chats are alive again. People are helping each other. There is far far more interaction than in Retail. It isn't even close. Again, you are straight up lying.

5 - Rofl...again, demonstrably false. In fact, I'm having a far easier time getting into dungeon groups than I remember (reality is because there are so very many people playing) on three different toons now, and watching the LFG add-on, I don't see people waiting for more than a few minutes most of the time. Again, you are straight up lying.

6 - How is your argument any different than what actually occurs in Retail? Because you have something pop up on your map? In other words, because Blizz put the same functionality into the game that you can get via an add-on? Try following Retail directions without looking at your map...yep, it hasn't changed one bit.

7 - Rofl...again, demonstrably false. All kinds of casuals out here in Classic.

Overall, I'd give you about 1/10 troll. I've seen better arguments from elementary school aged children.

[Specialka]

naxx had a bunch of mechanics that stopped you from saving yourself and forced others to save you in 2-3 seconds or you died

that's HARD, it's not tedious. nowadays we'll have DBM scream at us so it's easier, but things that kill you if you react too slowly is the definition of hard/difficult

Do you have any kind logs of MM raid or achievement mythic to back up your claim?

And current raid are designed around players using DBM btw.

[jakeic]

They only give the illusion of being better because you're slowly unlocking towards your cookie cutter spec. For me, I'm leveling my lock so I just did cookie cutter leveling spec since it's stupid to level any other way. Sure, I was happy when I finally got to the point I could talent into nightfall for that 2/4% proc of an instant-cast Shadow Bolt, but i knew the only reason it seemed interesting/rewarding was because I had to slowly unlock towards it. If it was a talent choice at level 30, i'd still be happy to finally get it. But there are less talent choices and all the "optional" Classic choices such as 1/2/3% more damage with shadow spells I would automatically get at, say, level 40.

All Blizzard did with talent trees is give you the automatic talents that you absolutely should have picked or you would be as optimal as a ret pally. Besides, if they actually wanted people to have more choice then they shouldn't have made respeccing cost a fortune. If the talent respecs were cheaper or at least had a smaller timeframe (it'll only go down 1 cost tier per MONTH) then sure. But as it stands? You have to pick the correct talents at the start with no "Are you sure" mechanic in case you accidentally click the wrong talent. Oops, guess it's either spend 50g or wait a month for it to be reduced to 40g.

This is all just half truths. Take for instance your assertion that the choice is an illusion because some talents are really good, well of course some talents are really good that’s what makes talent trees interesting. Furthermore, talents are not equal at all times and are not universally coveted, for example Blessing of Kings (widely considered the best buff in the game) is not a priority to get while leveling or how mages reduction in chance to resist has crazy high value yet hunters don’t prioritize a similar talent. On top of that, how you progress down the talent tree is part of the journey, because even if you end up in some fairly standard build you may have prioritized Improved Heroic Strike over Deflection or first put points in a talent that increases your movement speed rather than your damage or vise versa.

The first talent respec costs a gold, which is not a great deal by the time you’re 60, then goes by 5g levels up to 50g. If you were to respec twice a month it would take over 9 months to reach the 50g cost. This could become prohibitively expensive, fortunately nothing in the game requires respecing at such a rate. Nearly everyone will respec a few times when they first reach 60 to try things out and get a feel, but then they will settle in, there will however be those that will respec as often as possible and even though the cost effects them they do not care what the cost is they would respec anyway.

So I guess what I’m saying is that you’re wrong.

[Specialka]

This is all just half truths. Take for instance your assertion that the choice is an illusion because some talents are really good, well of course some talents are really good that’s what makes talent trees interesting. Furthermore, talents are not equal at all times and are not universally coveted, for example Blessing of Kings (widely considered the best buff in the game) is not a priority to get while leveling or how mages reduction in chance to resist has crazy high value yet hunters don’t prioritize a similar talent. On top of that, how you progress down the talent tree is part of the journey, because even if you end up in some fairly standard build you may have prioritized Improved Heroic Strike over Deflection or first put points in a talent that increases your movement speed rather than your damage or vise versa.

The first talent respec costs a gold, which is not a great deal by the time you’re 60, then goes by 5g levels up to 50g. If you were to respec twice a month it would take over 9 months to reach the 50g cost. This could become prohibitively expensive, fortunately nothing in the game requires respecing at such a rate. Nearly everyone will respec a few times when they first reach 60 to try things out and get a feel, but then they will settle in, there will however be those that will respec as often as possible and even though the cost effects them they do not care what the cost is they would respec anyway.

So I guess what I’m saying is that you’re wrong.

He is wrong in your opinion but he is right by mine.

And in Vanilla, if you did pvp and pve, you were screwed because talents for Pvp were nothing alike for pve. And same if you wanted to tank/heal to help a friend or something like that.

[Mrbleedinggums]

This is all just half truths. Take for instance your assertion that the choice is an illusion because some talents are really good, well of course some talents are really good that’s what makes talent trees interesting. Furthermore, talents are not equal at all times and are not universally coveted, for example Blessing of Kings (widely considered the best buff in the game) is not a priority to get while leveling or how mages reduction in chance to resist has crazy high value yet hunters don’t prioritize a similar talent. On top of that, how you progress down the talent tree is part of the journey, because even if you end up in some fairly standard build you may have prioritized Improved Heroic Strike over Deflection or first put points in a talent that increases your movement speed rather than your damage or vise versa.

The first talent respec costs a gold, which is not a great deal by the time you’re 60, then goes by 5g levels up to 50g. If you were to respec twice a month it would take over 9 months to reach the 50g cost. This could become prohibitively expensive, fortunately nothing in the game requires respecing at such a rate. Nearly everyone will respec a few times when they first reach 60 to try things out and get a feel, but then they will settle in, there will however be those that will respec as often as possible and even though the cost effects them they do not care what the cost is they would respec anyway.

So I guess what I’m saying is that you’re wrong.

Yea? Well that's just, like, your own opinion man.

Also, you're wrong too but that's another story. Also who needs to respect a few times to feel out anything? lol, the game has already been out for years and all the secrets/best paths have already been known or found out. Just follow a cookie cutter spec and boom, you're done. There is literally no reason to "play around with talents" except for just being a fool with your money.

But hey, you go and pvp in your raiding spec and see how you can try to balance both out with only 2 respecs a month lol