10 man mythic raiding would have saved the game for me, keeping 20 mythic raiders together was just too hard after a while, as alliance.
But now I play classic and I love every second of it, unlikely i'll ever return to bfa.
10 man mythic raiding would have saved the game for me, keeping 20 mythic raiders together was just too hard after a while, as alliance.
But now I play classic and I love every second of it, unlikely i'll ever return to bfa.
10m raids were amazing.
I had the best time of WoW in 10m Throne of Thunder.
What was the last boss anyone here has done on Mythic to say that we need 10-man raids back based on Classic?
Classic raids are barely Normal level based on difficulty, and it needs 40 people (well, technically 40 anyways, can be done with way less).
Normal and Heroic raids are flex, which means you can do them with 10 people (they are 10-30 people).
Classic 'raiders' acting like they are the toughest there is, yet they've never seen Mythic progress raiding.
Except...they don't. Scholo, Strath, and BRD were never considered raids by Blizzard, even back in Classic's hey day. They were always intended to be 5-man dungeons. The problem was a combination of the dungeons being over tuned for 5-man groups, and it being more efficient to run them in 10-man raid groups. Every quest within those dungeons, however, were completable only by a 5-man group, they were not flagged as raid quests.
LBRS and UBRS are a bit of a different beast, however. Lower Blackrock Spire was a 5-man dungeon, as the quests in there were flagged as such, but Upper Blackrock SPire was originally considered a "Raid" portion of the same dungeon, and quests up there were actually flagged as Raid Quests. Upper Blackrock Spire also had it's own miniature attunement line with it's sealed key, which required you to look a gem off of three bosses inside the Lower section.
Besides Upper Blackrock, however (Which was a 15-man raid originally, then cut down to a 10-man when Blizzard began enforcing a hard limit on how many people you could bring into the level 58-60 dungeons), the smallest proper raids in Classic were 20-mans, those being Zul'Gurub and the Ruins of Ahn'Qiraj.
Let's not kid ourselves here - Stratholme, Scholomance, and Blackrock Depths were never designed as Raid dungeons. They were 5-mans that people ran with ten people because it drastically reduced the difficulty of them, to the point of them being entirely faceroll.
They cut 10man because it trivializes mechanics too much by picking a to specific comp. We do have that in any raid size, but it get's worse the lower the raid size gets. Siege of Orgrimmar showed anyone with a brain, that two equally hard 10/25 modes can not exist and a flex mode for the lower difficulties is the best compromise. One standard for the hardest content is the right choice to make. If they'd reintroduce the 10/25 split, bosses would get even more dull and generic, for they must be equally hard for both setups, which significantly limits encounter design.
No 10 man raids until TBC.
Classic raids suck horribly, unless you want the mechanics to be piss easy as well in retail? Oh look 1 single mechanic to deal with!
Classic proves nothing about your claim on raiding. If your claim was that raids were never difficult back then, then sure.
20 man set up > 10 man set up because they can design encounters with specific classes/abilities needed since it's more reasonable that a 20 man group would likely have at least 1 of every class. 10 man raids you had those restrictions in place. Unless of course, you were trying to make it Classic style and have half the shit immune, the other half not even phased by most of the classes so if you wanted anything done you should stack a class.
Ooze boss in AQ anyone?
"Why of course the people don't want war…. But, after all… it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country."
/clap
Thank you for saying that. Classic "raiders" never were raiders to begin with. Only a handful of people I know ever touched foot in Mythic raiding, let alone actually did enough meaningful raiding to be able to be classified as true end-game raiders. The rest are just carebears that could barely get past Normal, let alone Heroic.
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Oh yea, I'm in a top 10 guild and I wish they kept 20 man raiding. See how easy it is to make empty claims?
"Why of course the people don't want war…. But, after all… it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country."
But you can do 10 man raiding all you want outside of Mythic and LFR.
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They were not ever intended to be 5 man dungeons, they were intended to be 10 and 15 man dungeons. Just that any group ove 5 is called a raid. They were never raids in the sense of raiding.
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10 man raids should never have been removed.
It's literally twice as hard to assemble a raid group currently, and 10 man raids required better players overall. 1 death in a 10 man raid was crippling compared to the stupid number of deaths you can have in 20 man.
Huh? Classic has 40-man raiding though.
Also, most players are not even close to any form of raiding in classic so how did you work this out?
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Ehm, so "stupid number of deaths" means two deaths in your head?
Really odd.
Congratz, then you have a legit claim there. But don't pretend like the statement holds true for the majority of players.
There is a bunch of reason why blizz chose 20-man for mythic (both gameplay and irl social aspects) but the main thing you have to look at is basic encounter design:
encounters would need to be drastically dumbed down if we cut 10 people from the raid and Blizz has a pretty good team to design encounters around 20 man for the past few years now.
Also, if you are world 500, why do you care about 10 man, you got 20 man.
First of all it worked just fine balancing 10m and 25m mythic content for years. Obviously some bosses were easier in one difficulty compared to the other but really, that was minor.
I'm quite sure they wont add 10m mythic raiding back though. Its just easier to not to support it. Just as you said its easier to design every mythic boss just with 20 people in mind.
Still i wish they would add it back. The whole atmosphere in a 10m raid is so much better. You know everyone so much better. Your whole participation mattered so much more. You had more responsibility and more impact. Nowadays you have your 2-3 callers in a raidgroup and everyone else just listens and follows.
One death in a 10 man group is the same as two in a 20 man group. He made no sense what so ever. Why are you talking about mythic vs HC here? I litteraly said nothing about it and I care little if at all about HC. It's free loot no matter the size of the group you're in.
Its not hard to find guilds that need help with mythic raids and its not much different you would either be farming mythic bosses and be bored or farming heroic bosses and be bored, if a guild is not able to gather 20 players then they dont really need to do mythic content as there are only a few rewards for doing mythic these days
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