The myths about Classic that have fallen apart

[tikcol]

I pointed out how there is next to nothing to do once you hit level 60 since all there is to do is PvP or raiding. What else is there to do? Mess around around with professions maybe? Just because you don't want to admit that I'm right doesn't mean you have the right to insult me.

Someone that thinks arcane frost with presence of mind is a powerful mage pvp spec and says after you reach lvl 60 there's no content is someone that doesn't understand the game on a fundamental level. I can't take you seriously and I'm making sure everyone doesn't either, nothing else

[TheRevenantHero]

Someone that thinks arcane frost with presence of mind is a powerful mage pvp spec and says after you reach lvl 60 there's no content is someone that doesn't understand the game on a fundamental level. I can't take you seriously and I'm making sure everyone doesn't either, nothing else

....Ok, bro. You uh....you keep telling yourself that you're the de facto Classic expert. I'll keep taking the advice of proper guides.

[Carolus Rex]

Except there's PLENTY of people who agree that vanilla raids are easy as hell. Even a lot of people who are huge vanilla fans agree that even Naxx and AQ 40 will be steamrolled in Classic.

Had they been easy, they would've been cleared by more than 0.0001% of the playerbase.

[tikcol]

....Ok, bro. You uh....you keep telling yourself that you're the de facto Classic expert. I'll keep taking the advice of proper guides.

Do you mean this guide?

https://classic.wowhead.com/guides/m...ilds-for-mages

I don't see an arcane frost pvp build with presence of mind/arcane power there. There's one above for pve though. Might want to think things through.

But yea by all means use the pve spec. When I freeze you in place and imp cs your face and blow you up in 2 seconds because you don't have iceblock or ice barrier you can come back here crying

[TheRevenantHero]

Had they been easy, they would've been cleared by more than 0.0001% of the playerbase.

....They were. Once players finally knew how to play the game, everything became ASTOUNDINGLY easy. Vanilla was never hard by design. It was difficult because nobody had any idea wtf they were doing for a long while. By the time AQ40 hit, way more people knew what they were doing and were experiencing the raid content. AQ40 was difficult because C'thun was literally impossible to kill before a hotfix. Naxx's only difficult fight was Four Horsemen.

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Do you mean this guide?

https://classic.wowhead.com/guides/m...ilds-for-mages

I don't see an arcane frost pvp build with presence of mind/arcane power there. There's one above for pve though. Might want to think things through.

But yea by all means use the pve spec. When I freeze you in place and imp cs your face and blow you up in 2 seconds because you don't have iceblock or ice barrier you can come back here crying

Ya know, I never once mentioned ANYTHING about what build I was using. You started blabbering on about builds. All I said was that the build used in PvE is also 100% viable in PvP. You're the one that said anything about an arcane frost build lol. But keep ranting with yourself about being the Classic master.

[Ghostile]

Do you mean this guide?

https://classic.wowhead.com/guides/m...ilds-for-mages

I don't see an arcane frost pvp build with presence of mind/arcane power there. There's one above for pve though. Might want to think things through.

But yea by all means use the pve spec. When I freeze you in place and imp cs your face and blow you up in 2 seconds because you don't have iceblock or ice barrier you can come back here crying

tbf, 1 is nowhere near big enough samplesize

[Lionhearte0]

1. Classic raids are very hard.

Have you cleared MC? AQ? Naxx?
MC is triviliazed today because we're on patch 1.12 with an increased debuff limit. Try harder.

2. Old talent trees are better than the current ones

They are. Your opinion is wrong.

3. It’s about the journey, not the race to 60

It is. Streamers don't speak/act on behalf the 3+ million players.

4. Classic incentivizes player interaction, so everyone will suddenly become sociable and make friends

Nah. I've made plenty of new friends. Maybe you just have a shit personality.

5. Getting into a dungeon group won't be a problem because there's no ilvl, r.io, achievements and armory.

This is just wrong, period. Cry more.

6. Class quests, the holy grail of class fantasy

Good. Shitty players get left behind.

7. Classic is a great game for casuals, much better than modern WoW

No one ever said this.

Stay salty, Cata baby.

[tikcol]

....They were. Once players finally knew how to play the game, everything became ASTOUNDINGLY easy. Vanilla was never hard by design. It was difficult because nobody had any idea wtf they were doing for a long while. By the time AQ40 hit, way more people knew what they were doing and were experiencing the raid content. AQ40 was difficult because C'thun was literally impossible to kill before a hotfix. Naxx's only difficult fight was Four Horsemen.

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Ya know, I never once mentioned ANYTHING about what build I was using. You started blabbering on about builds. All I said was that the build used in PvE is also 100% viable in PvP. You're the one that said anything about an arcane frost build lol. But keep ranting with yourself about being the Classic master.

You say this,

Lol yes you have lost all credibility. The Frost mage build available online for raid encounters is also an incredibly powerful PvP build. So, I now can't take anything you say seriously.

And then you say this,

Yeah I 100% don't believe you at all. Anyone just playing whatever they want when it comes to talent trees being filled and not filling a proper build is going to be a massive hindrance to a group.

It is not incredibly powerful, it's incredibly bad.

If you find any guide saying it's incredibly powerful, it was probably written by you

[TheRevenantHero]

You say this,



And then you say this,



It is not incredibly powerful, it's incredibly bad.

Ok, buddy.

[kaminaris]

Had they been easy, they would've been cleared by more than 0.0001% of the playerbase.

No thats not how it works. Nax will be steamrolled in day one.

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MC is triviliazed today because we're on patch 1.12 with an increased debuff limit. Try harder.

Has nothing to do with patch 1.12. MC would have been steamrolled regardless of patch. Because it was and still is in classic = piss easy.

[Appelgren]

Less forums more playing Classic no? lol

Gotta do something during those hours in queue ;D

[TheRevenantHero]

Gotta do something during those hours in queue ;D

I haven't had more than a couple of minutes of queue as of late so I don't know why you're waiting hours.

[Darkguyver2020]

The fact that you think "more mechanics = harder" is raw denial.

C'thun has less mechanics but is insanely harder than most retail bosses.

Gotta love the deluded shit that comes out of Classic Zealots mouths sometimes. The only thing that was challenging about C'thun was beating him before you died of boredom. That or getting through the awful mountains of trash mobs that stood between him and the Twin Emperors room.

[PelinalWhitestrake]

can we start banning all of these nochanges trolls?

[Appelgren]

I haven't had more than a couple of minutes of queue as of late so I don't know why you're waiting hours.

The bigger realms are between 2-3 hours queue on peak hours and has been like that since start.

If you have 0 queues then you are playing on a lowpop server

[Uvania]

Classic will soon be 3 weeks old and for many of us it's been a colossal experience in various different ways. On launch day, all my guildies and almost all my B-Net friends were desparately trying to get in, to have this old school experience. Many hours and days of gameplay have been devoted to Classic since then, and during that time we all verified the things we've been told over the months and years leading to the Classic launch ourselves. The hype train is slowing down and by now most people have quit the game already and I'm about to follow. So what about that hype we were being fed, mostly by influencers, streamers and youtubers turned out to be untrue?

1. Classic raids are very hard.

This has already been extensively discussed in other threads, but nonetheless I wanted to get this out of the way first. This was heavily pushed as one of the selling points of Classic. How many hours you have to spend on farming consumables, how many hours you have to spend on getting this and that...in the end it turned out that people below the level cap in greens are able to clear the raids. The only difficulty in clearing the raid is actually getting to level 60.

2. Old talent trees are better than the current ones

This is something that was advertised not only with Classic in mind, but in general in any discussion about the talent system in the current game. These initial weeks of people having access to Classic has shown that not only are those old talents not interesting (the vast majority of them just being +1% dmg on ability), but they also allow no options to pick at all, because resetting them costs a fortune. Depending on the class, about 2-4 talents in the whole tree actually make a difference in your gameplay. The rest is filler that doesn't give any tangible power up.

3. It’s about the journey, not the race to 60

Probably one of the most pushed ideas by all the veteran/elite players/streamers. What ended up happening was of course all those people who were pushing this idea went and grinded dungeons in raids with premade groups. Various excuses were employed, but in general the truth was laid bare for everyone to see. Turns out it’s not about the adventure in the zones, as that’s just boring grindfest of poorly balanced quests. It’s getting to the cap as fast as possible that is important, and people just playing normally are treated as some weirdos wasting their time. And for good reason - questing seems to be one of the worst possible ways to level up in Classic. Instance grinding, layer hopping, or just simple mob grinding in one spot are all faster.

4. Classic incentivizes player interaction, so everyone will suddenly become sociable and make friends

This just isn't the case. We can blame the current times and how people are in general these days, but I'm willing to bet it's been like that years ago too. People don't socialize. Sure, they do group up for quests, because those quests necessitate that. They sometimes say "hi", "bye" or "warrior taunt the mob" but usually nothing beyond that. There is absolutely nothing different about grouping in Classic in comparison to grouping through lfg-type systems in retail wow. People enter a party, they do the task, they leave, and never speak to each other again.

5. Getting into a dungeon group won't be a problem because there's no ilvl, r.io, achievements and armory.

False. Everyone and their mother spends their whole day on twitch now, and they already know the “leveling meta” for dungeons. Different class, or a spec without specific aoe abilities the party leader wants? No invite. And sure, I'm not saying you won't ever find a group for dungeon, and you can always make your own group, but about 80-90% of the groups advertised past level 40 are for specific classes and specific comps only. Yes, you will be able to do a dungeon run for quests while leveling, but it will take a long while looking through the "meta only" group advertisements to find one that just wants you as a player, not as an aoe mage. Other than that, thanks to loot options in Classic, most of the groups usually have a list of "reserved items" that you have to agree to pass on when you join the party. So which is worse, requiring a higher RIO, or asking that you pass on 10 items that you actually need?

6. Class quests, the holy grail of class fantasy

Class quests are the epitome of the antiquated game design. Not only are they fully skippable, which makes them horrible for people who are not playing the game on rails following a complete leveling guide for their class, but they often also require a group, and the ability to kill an enemy that is like 10 levels above your current level. For many of those quests you literally have to ask for boost, or you'll not complete them. Them being fully skippable also means that you may end up at a level cap while lacking skills essential to your class. Not only are those quests fully skippable, they also give no mention of the actual final reward in the game itself, so again, you have to follow 3rd party guides to even know what's coming.

7. Classic is a great game for casuals, much better than modern WoW

It is obviously not. In no way, shape, or form. Leveling is broken, imbalanced and just badly designed. Quests are few and far between, and you have to juggle 3-4 zones at once to even keep doing them. Otherwise you just have to grind mobs. As for the mobs themselves, you often die while fighting 1 mob that is on your level on lower. It's not even about everything taking long, it's about you wasting a lot of time if you don't know the proper route or not paying like 10$ for the proper questing addon that will take you through stuff you need to do. Leveling in Classic while not having any prior knowledge or memorized routes is just a pain. But okay - let's say you are a casual and you reach the level cap in a month or two. What can you do? You can level your professions, maybe farm some gold for an epic mount...content ends. You can always level an alt I guess, but why put yourself through that hell again? There is absolutely nothing to do in Classic if you don't plan to raid in it, which is why I personlally quit on level 42. The grind has become really tredious, and I would put myself through it if there was something waiting at the end - and there's not. I'm not afraid of long grinds, I've reached max overal level in the original Runescape 2 (the one osrs is based on) years back. And I'm grinding some stuff on retail wow for years now, on 30 characters. There needs to be an incentive though, and there is none in Classic.

So these are the main ones I know about. If you have any other myths that were completely debunked by Classic's release feel free to post.

1. No, Molten Core and Onyxia has never been hard and was cleared by people in greens back in vanilla aswell (myself ran around with green fire ress items and a few blues first time i went through MC in original vanilla) and Onyxia was killed by 5 people in aq40/naxx40 gear.

2. No, theyre not better but you get something each level and thats what people have been asking for on retail and loot can be rare in vanilla so % dmg here and there helps alot.

3. Yes, its about the Journey and i create dungeon groups only for quests when its time to complete them, im currently on 37 and planning to run SM quests tomorrow when i reach 38 and ive been QUESTING all the day juggling between 3-4 zones and its great fun to travel around instead of doing a streamlined questchain through an entire zone.

4. Yeah, ive added 4 people on battle.net so far that i group up with and i've found contact with atleast 10 old irl friends that came back for classic launch.

5. No, no problems i create my own groups and put a level req and bring in max 2 of each armor type, no stupid spellcleaves proper full runs it is no rush to 60.

6. Class quests is nice

7. Perfect for casuals, do some quests and logout.

[KaPe]

Gotta love the deluded shit that comes out of Classic Zealots mouths sometimes. The only thing that was challenging about C'thun was beating him before you died of boredom. That or getting through the awful mountains of trash mobs that stood between him and the Twin Emperors room.

That's kinda pushing it. C'thun is one of the few vanilla bosses that could compare to modern raiding. Not Mythic level (at least not beyond entry level), certainly, but he'd be an acceptable fight, with multiple phases, spreading, adds that were soft dps check, different "realms". Far more than can be said for the rest of the instance, where Poison Resistance and frost wands were appearently peak of difficulty.

'Course, the myth of C'thun incredibly difficulty has nothing to do with the actual challenge, but remaining bugged and unkillable for months - and then crumbling right after it was patched. Which will also happen in Classic - with the main issue being lack of mounts and having to walk through the entire instance on foot.

[Zantera]

When it comes to the social aspect, personally I feel like if the only way to get you to talk to other people and add them is by forcing you to do it with elite quests everywhere, maybe the issue is with you and not the game? I used to be very socially awkward and while I have been in many guilds since i started playing the game all those years ago, I remember Cataclysm well as an expansion where I was quite miserable because I had barely any friends in the game and I spent a lot of it alone. Contrasted with Legion and BFA where I've upped my social game and I've met tons of great people that I have social interactions with daily.

This isn't meant as a retail VS classic post or any crap like that, I guess my point is any game is what you make it. I feel like if you want to meet new people and play with the same people and have great times, make friendships and form memories then that is definitely achievable in retail just like it is in classic, or any other game.

[sopeonaroap]

Do you have any kind logs of MM raid or achievement mythic to back up your claim?

And current raid are designed around players using DBM btw.

if you want that info it's free and widely available and the fact that you haven't already seen it makes me wonder what you're building your whole argument on anyway if not just simple "feelings"

blizz has reported mythic stats for years now and we've had vanilla naxx stats for over a decade. we know how many players there were at 60, how many cleared naxx, how many guilds had kills and each guild clear was verified, etc

this would be a good time to start your own research instead of asking those of us informed about it all to do it for you. stop being lazy. if the desire for factual information doesn't motivate you then nothing i say can and you're just another hater with an opinion pulled from their ass.

how you respond will paint the proper picture of you

[Specialka]

if you want that info it's free and widely available and the fact that you haven't already seen it makes me wonder what you're building your whole argument on anyway if not just simple "feelings"

blizz has reported mythic stats for years now and we've had vanilla naxx stats for over a decade. we know how many players there were at 60, how many cleared naxx, how many guilds had kills and each guild clear was verified, etc

this would be a good time to start your own research instead of asking those of us informed about it all to do it for you. stop being lazy. if the desire for factual information doesn't motivate you then nothing i say can and you're just another hater with an opinion pulled from their ass.

how you respond will paint the proper picture of you

?

"naxx had a bunch of mechanics that stopped you from saving yourself and forced others to save you in 2-3 seconds or you died

that's HARD, it's not tedious. nowadays we'll have DBM scream at us so it's easier, but things that kill you if you react too slowly is the definition of hard/difficult"

That is your post and I asked if you had some of your MM logs where you cleared such content since it seems you find it easy to do.