Increase boss hp in Molten Core

[Lochton]

Starting in 1.12 patch for the release of a server is a change. It comes with class/talent/ and gear buffs that pretty drastically increase dps.

It's no secret that MC is a joke right now. First time Rag kills with no submerge, and 30 second kills on most other bosses. Mana never matters in this environment, and that is super counter to the original design of raiding MC. That has other ramifications, like mana potions and fire prot potions being worth alot less.

Blizzard was lazy. They didn't want to do a progressive patch release plan, instead giving us this. That ship has sailed, I won't dwell on that point.

So, it seems the right thing to do would be to add HP to bosses.

I'm not saying it has to be perfect, but at the very least, mana should be a concern on the first few clears, or else this all feels meaningless, like retail.

Everquest had to do the *exact* same thing, for basically the exact same reasons. Those of us who played those servers saw this, and some other issues, coming a mile away.

I am sorry but Classic is not Vanilla. We know more now. We know what to do, bring, avoid and more. The content in classic has gone from a general challenge to a replay, a rerun. Our battles will never reach what they used to back then.

[aeuhe4yxzhds]

They really should have increased the damage and health of all dungeon/raid mobs by at least 30-50%

[Frozenbro]

They really should have increased the damage and health of all dungeon/raid mobs by at least 30-50%

Why should they, to give the illusion of the game being harder when top guilds are gonna steamroll everything anyways? OP and many others never did hard meaningful content on retail, that means they are gonna struggle with the current classic raids anyways, why make it harder for them? So they again never set foot on Naxx like in the past? or you would rather have classic community see the content this time around? seems like a no brain decision for me.

[Nitros14]

Of course top guilds will faceroll everything, they've already cleared it many times.

You could release mythic Kil'jaeden again and Method would kill it instantly because they've already done 700 pulls on it and know it perfectly.

[Flurryfang]

You're not necessarily wrong. I'm just kinda surprised the no changes people aren't PISSED right now. Maybe cause most of them are not there yet.

Its just a really minor thing. I don't think anybody expected MC to be hard or anything, since it was kids-firsts raid and very forgiving for new raiders, so the no-changes proberly don't see it interfere with the experience.

Some would proberly also say, that this is part of the no-change experience. New people still got into raiding and did MC when Naxx came out, so this current experience matches completly with that.

[Frozenbro]

You could release mythic Kil'jaeden again and Method would kill it instantly because they've already done 700 pulls on it and know it perfectly.

With non max lvls and on greens? hell no, comparing meme MC with M KJ is overdoing it to prove a point.

[apustus]

Of course top guilds will faceroll everything, they've already cleared it many times.

You could release mythic Kil'jaeden again and Method would kill it instantly because they've already done 700 pulls on it and know it perfectly.

Yeah except Method would have to be in Emerald Nightmare/Trial of Valor gear, maybe 1 sub-optimal legendary equipped and around 28 points in their artifact for this to be even close to a valid comparison.

[Bigbazz]

It was as meaningless in 1.12 as it was in 1.3

There wasn't some massive jump in ease that you want to believe there was. MC just was never hard.

Aside from the fact that 1.12 classes are much stronger across the board, 1.12 gear is much stronger across the board? I don't think anyone said MC wasn't hard, but it was definitely harder than it is now because people did it with much, much weaker tools. It's like going back and doing a previous tier with current tier items and buffed classes, obviously a lot easier.

Why does the argument to buff the content back up always end in "it wasn't hard to begin with". It's like, you need to realise there are shades of grey... It wasn't hard to begin with, but it's still considerably easier now than it was when it was released.

[Nitros14]

With non max lvls and on greens? hell no, comparing meme MC with M KJ is overdoing it to prove a point.

People are saying they'll faceroll Naxxramas. And they will, because they'll have plenty of time to farm all the gear they need and they've done it tons of times.

[Annelie]

You can't trivialise something that was already trivial.

Yes you can, but the other raids where not pushowever then, they will be now because we have a different talent/gear system in place.

[Frozenbro]

People are saying they'll faceroll Naxxramas. And they will, because they'll have plenty of time to farm all the gear they need and they've done it tons of times.

Well only time will tell, i still think its a bit overdoing it considering M KJ is among the hardest bosses in wow history, if not the hardest.

[Hey There Guys its Metro]

Pretty funny to see all those sub 1-minute clears on the 1st or second week in there.

[Twdft]

Aside from the fact that 1.12 classes are much stronger across the board, 1.12 gear is much stronger across the board? I don't think anyone said MC wasn't hard, but it was definitely harder than it is now because people did it with much, much weaker tools. It's like going back and doing a previous tier with current tier items and buffed classes, obviously a lot easier.

MC raids today go in with a lot of quest greens, I'm sure this counts as much weaker tools too.

It isn't only the the difference of 1.3 to 1.12 that makes MC easier today, it's also 14 years of players getting better at the game.

[Gaidax]

They could boost MC bosses HP by 200% and it still would be an LFR level joke raid.

There won't be any sort of challenge until like AQ40 and tbh I think that one will drop dead pretty fast too. Vanilla is simply nowhere near what raids offer nowadays, there are dungeons harder than whole raids in classic right now.

[arkanon]

Starting in 1.12 patch for the release of a server is a change. It comes with class/talent/ and gear buffs that pretty drastically increase dps.

It's no secret that MC is a joke right now. First time Rag kills with no submerge, and 30 second kills on most other bosses. Mana never matters in this environment, and that is super counter to the original design of raiding MC. That has other ramifications, like mana potions and fire prot potions being worth alot less.

Blizzard was lazy. They didn't want to do a progressive patch release plan, instead giving us this. That ship has sailed, I won't dwell on that point.

So, it seems the right thing to do would be to add HP to bosses.

I'm not saying it has to be perfect, but at the very least, mana should be a concern on the first few clears, or else this all feels meaningless, like retail.

Everquest had to do the *exact* same thing, for basically the exact same reasons. Those of us who played those servers saw this, and some other issues, coming a mile away.

Please provide patch notes for these "DRASTIC" buffs. I await your links, all patch notes are archived and readily available, and you claim to know all about the changes, so please provide blizzards patch notes outlining these buffs.

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Yes you can, but the other raids where not pushowever then, they will be now because we have a different talent/gear system in place.

This is somewhat true for mc (although drastically exaggerated) but it is not true for later raids. Watching the "vanilla was hard" crew desperately move the goalposts is the best thing about classic tbh.

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Aside from the fact that 1.12 classes are much stronger across the board, 1.12 gear is much stronger across the board? I don't think anyone said MC wasn't hard, but it was definitely harder than it is now because people did it with much, much weaker tools. It's like going back and doing a previous tier with current tier items and buffed classes, obviously a lot easier.

Why does the argument to buff the content back up always end in "it wasn't hard to begin with". It's like, you need to realise there are shades of grey... It wasn't hard to begin with, but it's still considerably easier now than it was when it was released.

Again, please link the patch notes that indicate these extreme and drastic DPS increases. Not a single person has done so yet.

[Uoyredrum]

Because the whole entire raid died in about 1-2 minutes per boss.

So Mythic HFC bosses getting blown up in 20 seconds meant it was irrelevant content?

[NihilSustinet]

Please provide patch notes for these "DRASTIC" buffs. I await your links, all patch notes are archived and readily available, and you claim to know all about the changes, so please provide blizzards patch notes outlining these buffs.

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This is somewhat true for mc (although drastically exaggerated) but it is not true for later raids. Watching the "vanilla was hard" crew desperately move the goalposts is the best thing about classic tbh.

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Again, please link the patch notes that indicate these extreme and drastic DPS increases. Not a single person has done so yet.

are you really sitting here denying that class balance and power didnt vastly increase between 1.1 and 1.12? really?

[arkanon]

are you really sitting here denying that class balance and power didnt vastly increase between 1.1 and 1.12? really?

Everyone talks about it as an absolute fact that cannot be denied, im simply asking for someone to link the readily available patch notes outlining these "drastic buffs to dps". Honestly, i dont think it is asking too much at all.

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So Mythic HFC bosses getting blown up in 20 seconds meant it was irrelevant content?

while it was current?

[NihilSustinet]

Everyone talks about it as an absolute fact that cannot be denied, im simply asking for someone to link the readily available patch notes outlining these "drastic buffs to dps". Honestly, i dont think it is asking too much at all.

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while it was current?

all the patch notes between 1.1 and 1.12 are readily available online. why are you demanding links to things you can easily google?

[Hinastorm]

Please provide patch notes for these "DRASTIC" buffs. I await your links, all patch notes are archived and readily available, and you claim to know all about the changes, so please provide blizzards patch notes outlining these buffs.

- - - Updated - - -



This is somewhat true for mc (although drastically exaggerated) but it is not true for later raids. Watching the "vanilla was hard" crew desperately move the goalposts is the best thing about classic tbh.

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Again, please link the patch notes that indicate these extreme and drastic DPS increases. Not a single person has done so yet.

It's common knowledge, especially talent buffs. I'm sorry you are not in the know. Feel free to look it up yourself. Ya lemme just spend an hour looking up and posting facts for a random person on the internet, only for him to just say they aren't real.