[classic] Forgo Ammo Bag/Quiver

[Bellatrex-Saga]

So I got into a discussion today in the Barrens because I said that I don't use an ammo bag because I'd rather have more bag space and the 10% buff wasn't good enough to give up the bag space. Everyone acted like I was crazy.

Edit - I am only talking about leveling - not end game. For clarity - having more bag space means more gold which means a mount at 40 which means faster leveling. I don't think a 10% buff makes up for the gold I gain by being able to sell more things.

[ryjkur]

just sim it it and check if 10% attack speed is worth it

[Bellatrex-Saga]

you cant really sim the value of extra bag spaces

[ryjkur]

you cant really sim the value of extra bag spaces

Well, IIRC attack speed only affects auto shots in vanilla, so if your auto shoot is 50% of your damage you'll lose about 5% dmg when not equipping 10% quiver so it's not that big of a deal.

[Knaar]

Depends if you have a whole bunch of 4 slots bags or if you have nearly max bag space possible. If you always goes around with 2/3 of your bags full of junk or if you keep an almost empty and clean bag.

[last1214]

I don't think you are crazy when we are speaking about low levels, but at high levels you'd be crazy to not carry a ton of ammo. The bag space becomes less valuable, and you don't want to go back to town very often if you can help it.

[Seranthor]

you cant really sim the value of extra bag spaces

but you CAN sim an extra 10% attack speed, can you not?

[sopeonaroap]

Well, IIRC attack speed only affects auto shots in vanilla, so if your auto shoot is 50% of your damage you'll lose about 5% dmg when not equipping 10% quiver so it's not that big of a deal.

it's a big deal and if everyone is 5% shittier than they should be in naxx, you won't clear naxx.

people are going to be shocked by the jump in difficulty between BWL and full naxx clears (even though we're getting a slightly nerfed version of the raid in patch 1.12)

if you're willing to give away 5% of your damage for bag slots, you're not 100% everywhere else either i'm sure

[Biomega]

you cant really sim the value of extra bag spaces

You can. It's 0.

Sims only make sense if you actually care about damage. That's literally their purpose. Anything that doesn't contribute damage is 0. Anything that REDUCES damage is less than 0.

If nobody cares about your damage, you don't need to justify your choices to anyone. Do what you enjoy.

If people DO care about damage, you'd need some pretty good arguments not to maximize. If you're in a raid, for example, going "I just like having more bag space" is not a very good reason to be doing less damage. 39 other people are relying on you, and you stiff them because you're too lazy to go to your bank? That doesn't seem right.

[ryjkur]

it's a big deal and if everyone is 5% shittier than they should be in naxx, you won't clear naxx.

people are going to be shocked by the jump in difficulty between BWL and full naxx clears (even though we're getting a slightly nerfed version of the raid in patch 1.12)

if you're willing to give away 5% of your damage for bag slots, you're not 100% everywhere else either i'm sure

we are talking about leveling here, and auto shoot is actually less than 50% of total damage for hunters, it's less than 5% even.

secondly, you can clear naxx even if everyone did 5% less damage

[Bellatrex-Saga]

You can. It's 0.

Sims only make sense if you actually care about damage. That's literally their purpose. Anything that doesn't contribute damage is 0. Anything that REDUCES damage is less than 0.

If nobody cares about your damage, you don't need to justify your choices to anyone. Do what you enjoy.

If people DO care about damage, you'd need some pretty good arguments not to maximize. If you're in a raid, for example, going "I just like having more bag space" is not a very good reason to be doing less damage. 39 other people are relying on you, and you stiff them because you're too lazy to go to your bank? That doesn't seem right.

but you CAN sim an extra 10% attack speed, can you not?

it's a big deal and if everyone is 5% shittier than they should be in naxx, you won't clear naxx.

people are going to be shocked by the jump in difficulty between BWL and full naxx clears (even though we're getting a slightly nerfed version of the raid in patch 1.12)

if you're willing to give away 5% of your damage for bag slots, you're not 100% everywhere else either i'm sure

I guess I didnt say it in the original post - but I'm only talking about leveling - not end game.

[Seranthor]

I guess I didnt say it in the original post - but I'm only talking about leveling - not end game.

I dont see how this answers my question... nor negates the reason that I asked it in the first place.

[rohoz]

we are talking about leveling here, and auto shoot is actually less than 50% of total damage for hunters, it's less than 5% even.

secondly, you can clear naxx even if everyone did 5% less damage

uh wat

autoshot is like, your 2nd highest damage source if you're bm, first if you aren't (or have an underleveled pet)

[Bellatrex-Saga]

I dont see how this answers my question... nor negates the reason that I asked it in the first place.

I can sim an extra 10% attack speed. I can not sim the value of more bag slots and the value of not having to run to a vendor more often.

[Seranthor]

I can sim an extra 10% attack speed. I can not sim the value of more bag slots and the value of not having to run to a vendor more often.

Only you can make the decision on what you believe to be the right course of action for you.

[bullseyed]

You can. It's 0.

A bit like saying don't move out of fire because you'll lose DPS.

If you have to hearth back to town because your bag is full, your DPS is zero.

[Biomega]

If you have to hearth back to town because your bag is full, your DPS is zero.

What kind of an argument is that? You came to a raid with bags full of stuff you (evidently) could have dropped off in town? You somehow looted 20 indispensable items during a raid?

We're not talking about literally sacrificing all your bag slots here. This just seems like a ludicrous response.

[FurryRedVixen]

the loss of bag slots is very annoying, compound that with having to have both food (for you and your pet) and water plus space for quest items, that limits your inventory by alot.

That said though your quiver will always be bigger then the bags you will have anyways, if not th en you are really behind on getting a quiver/bullet upgrade.

[Bepples]

They were right. You are crazy to forgo a quiver.

10% attack speed is substantial. Consider that Rapid fire, our major 5 minute cooldown which is a major DPS increase when active, is 40%. Passing up a permanent 10% attack speed boost is nuts. That could easily be the difference between success or failure on hard solo mobs.

As for bag spaces... no matter what, you will have to use bag slots on ammo and quivers always carry more than bags at each level. You may think you can get clever with bag space management but you will inevitably find yourself in an unaccounted-for situation where you spend longer away from a vendor than you thought you would and run out when you need it.

As long as you get decent bags early on you won't have too much vendor trouble and I wouldn't even imagine you would lose even 1 gold to your bags being full if you are vendoring stuff regularly.

Well, IIRC attack speed only affects auto shots in vanilla, so if your auto shoot is 50% of your damage you'll lose about 5% dmg when not equipping 10% quiver so it's not that big of a deal.

Keep in mind that a DPS increase of **1%** from an item upgrade is generally considered to be a major upgrade. 5% DPS is huge, actually.

we are talking about leveling here, and auto shoot is actually less than 50% of total damage for hunters, it's less than 5% even.

secondly, you can clear naxx even if everyone did 5% less damage

Lol!? Auto Shot is MOST of your DPS as a Hunter while levelling aside from the pet.

Hell, this is even the case for BFA, and classic Hunters are way more dependent on Auto Shot than BFA. You're just making up numbers at this point and they're not even close to accurate.

[KrayZ33]

How many bagslots do you even gain from not using a quiver, considering that the new bag has to hold your arrows/bullets anyway?
Why would you forgo the attackspeed bonus for like 1-4 slots at most (by buying less ammo)?
What's the point when you have to go visit a town anyway even though your bags aren't full just to buy more arrows?