[Megathread] Final Fantasy XIV

[Granyala]

It can also make it feel like something of an obligation.
If there were to be something, I'd go with a Title. Those aren't that huge, but do serve as something of an "I did that" badge.

I could live with that.

[Remilia]

What was your ping lol?

Way too high. bns buddy reports 150ms but I'd see spikes to 300+ and consistently missing packets. Only happens with that game. Hell I have a more consistent experience in PSO2 and that server is in Japan.

I was running really low gear tbf in Mushin tower, lol. I just couldn't be arsed to farm past baleful at that point.

[Wrecktangle]

Way too high. bns buddy reports 150ms but I'd see spikes to 300+ and consistently missing packets. Only happens with that game. Hell I have a more consistent experience in PSO2 and that server is in Japan.

I was running really low gear tbf in Mushin tower, lol. I just couldn't be arsed to farm past baleful at that point.

Do you live in NA? The only place geographically that would make sense at 150 would be deep south america, the arctic circle, or EU.

I STILL only have baleful. I STILL only had baleful (maybe rank 6?) by time I killed Yunsang on floor 20, with a half decent leaderboard score. I did not have any lego rings or the bracelet.

[Remilia]

Do you live in NA? The only place geographically that would make sense at 150 would be deep south america, the arctic circle, or EU.

I STILL only have baleful. I STILL only had baleful (maybe rank 6?) by time I killed Yunsang on floor 20, with a half decent leaderboard score. I did not have any lego rings or the bracelet.

NA yeah. Hell at least you're baleful rank 6, I'm like rank 2, :P. I literally have like the lowest gear possible, well not the lowest but still pretty damn low. I'm thinking it's the node jump that my ISP goes through that has issue with their server. Or their server is just weird as shit. This biggest issue for me has always been the dropped packets. Nothing worst than doing nothing when you want it to do something. I don't want to spam ice armor for example cause i may just break it immediately on accident, but it's worse when I just use it and nothing happens.
What class were you? FM is a bit weird to play as for solo when I did. By the way, the biggest problem for FM wasn't 20, it is 19.

[Baconeggcheese]

I don't know what's your definition of shifting away, but WoW constantly removes/permanently changes content almost in every expansion. I don't see how it's good for the game though.

They haven't been overhauling as much these last 2 xpacs, which has been a problem. Stagnation is just as bad as too much change.

Like in FF14, if I don't enjoy something I don't have much hope of it changing, but if I do enjoy something its a lot less likely to grow away from me. Very much a double edged sword. The issue is that even that thing you do enjoy will eventually get stale if there isn't enough added spice as time goes on.

[Rogalicus]

They haven't been overhauling as much these last 2 xpacs, which has been a problem. Stagnation is just as bad as too much change.

Like in FF14, if I don't enjoy something I don't have much hope of it changing, but if I do enjoy something its a lot less likely to grow away from me. Very much a double edged sword. The issue is that even that thing you do enjoy will eventually get stale if there isn't enough added spice as time goes on.

The example was about one-time event with AQ gates in comparison to one-time Ishgard restoration in 5.1, not gameplay systems. Going by that example, WoW still changes almost every expansion with Dark Portal, Siege of Undercity, whole Cata, Theramore destruction, VoEB destruction, Blasted Lands destruction coupled with revamp of UBRS and so on. That doesn't make me feel like the world is alive, it's just removal of content.

As for gameplay, Legion actually changed so much, that I just dropped my warlock and unsubbed from class subforum when you-know-who was replying "NUMBERS ARE FINE" to any gameplay criticism. But I also think that I'd rather see iterations I don't like than play bad class forever like in FFXIV. SE's intent is probably that you continue to level and switch between classes constantly to avoid that staleness, but they are too shallow and homogenized for that.

[Remilia]

They haven't been overhauling as much these last 2 xpacs, which has been a problem. Stagnation is just as bad as too much change.

Like in FF14, if I don't enjoy something I don't have much hope of it changing, but if I do enjoy something its a lot less likely to grow away from me. Very much a double edged sword. The issue is that even that thing you do enjoy will eventually get stale if there isn't enough added spice as time goes on.

I kind of like the stable nature of it sometimes, but yeah they could add it a bit more stuff sometimes. Then again I've played the same class almost all expansion (and randomly go poke at other DPS class), and played like... two classes in PSO2, mainly cause I can't be arsed to make new weapons.

[Baconeggcheese]

The example was about one-time event with AQ gates in comparison to one-time Ishgard restoration in 5.1, not gameplay systems. Going by that example, WoW still changes almost every expansion with Dark Portal, Siege of Undercity, whole Cata, Theramore destruction, VoEB destruction, Blasted Lands destruction coupled with revamp of UBRS and so on. That doesn't make me feel like the world is alive, it's just removal of content.

Ah that's fair.

As for gameplay, Legion actually changed so much, that I just dropped my warlock and unsubbed from class subforum when you-know-who was replying "NUMBERS ARE FINE" to any gameplay criticism. But I also think that I'd rather see iterations I don't like than play bad class forever like in FFXIV. SE's intent is probably that you continue to level and switch between classes constantly to avoid that staleness, but they are too shallow and homogenized for that.

Legion overhauled their design philosophy along with the game. They decided they weren't going to do the massive mid xpac overhauls anymore etc etc. Its been 3 years of stagnation at this point. It honestly feels like they're trying to make the game more like the worst parts of FF14 without copying the good parts.

But yeah I agree, I really want to like monk for instance but its design is awful imo. Its funny how often people refuse to acknowledge that the class design in this game is very shallow / homogenized. They only seem to be concerned with number of buttons used rotationally and not that most of the usage is brain dead.

I kind of like the stable nature of it sometimes, but yeah they could add it a bit more stuff sometimes. Then again I've played the same class almost all expansion (and randomly go poke at other DPS class), and played like... two classes in PSO2, mainly cause I can't be arsed to make new weapons.

Yeah I mean, like I was saying its a mixed bag. When you find that thing that just feels damn near perfect you want them to preserve it at all costs. But at the same time if there isn't enough change it gets boring. And if you really want to like something but its not quite there then you have no hope of it becoming that thing you want.

Like Rogalicus said, I'd rather deal with some bad iterations rather than have the game get stale.

[leviathonlx]

Gotta admit that while I do think some of the Eden armor choices were questionable (RIP SAM and MNK getting a slightly modified healer set) I do love how my DRG looks with the full set.

[Wrecktangle]

NA yeah. This biggest issue for me has always been the dropped packets. Nothing worst than doing nothing when you want it to do something. I don't want to spam ice armor for example cause i may just break it immediately on accident, but it's worse when I just use it and nothing happens.
What class were you? FM is a bit weird to play as for solo when I did. By the way, the biggest problem for FM wasn't 20, it is 19.

I'm not sure because I do know a lot of people had issues with connecting to their servers. It was pretty widely known they were absolute cabbage, way worse than even FF14's cabbage ass servers. I was fortunate I didn't have too much packet loss, except when it affected everyone. I played a SIN, very ping dependent. I don't remember 19, was that the warlock or the twin people? The twin people was a fucking pain agreed.

They haven't been overhauling as much these last 2 xpacs, which has been a problem. Stagnation is just as bad as too much change.

Like in FF14, if I don't enjoy something I don't have much hope of it changing, but if I do enjoy something its a lot less likely to grow away from me. Very much a double edged sword. The issue is that even that thing you do enjoy will eventually get stale if there isn't enough added spice as time goes on.

This is @Rogalicus and you. I have to agree that stagnation is just as bad as too much change, I might even argue it's worse (personally). Too much change at least implies TRYING to improve/change, (assuming intent isn't change for the sake of change).

I appreciated that HW was just a more refined ARR. I did not feel the same way with SB and ShB. Expansion after expansion my mains job mechanics have improved (then again nothing is worse than ARR PLD so the bar was low), but I feel like the rest of the game hasn't scaled well with it. I am one of the people who actually likes that WoW changes things up every expansion. Keeps me coming back.

WoW on average gets like maybe 4-5 months out of me before I unsub with a new expansion. FF14 barely makes two months and that's including savage progression that I have to wait a month for.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

Just finished Eden.

Spoiler: 

So... did we drive the only hovercraft back to Amh Araeng, leaving Thancred and Urianger stranded in the Empty, which is saturated with so much Light aspected aether that they are in danger of becoming Sin Eaters?

I wonder why Zodiark would have need of an Oracle. He consumes souls! Hydaelyn doesn't go around seeking aether/power/souls, thus why she relied on a volunteer to do things on her behalf, but Zodiark has no such qualms. Why not just gobble her up, using her aether to give himself more power to break free? I'm guessing that Zodiark remains inactive and that this so-called "Oracle of Darkness" is not actually acting as the voice of Zodiark. Either she worships the Dark, or the Ascians put her up to it. I just can't see why Zodiark would tell some girl "BECOME MY ORACLE OF DARKNESS!".

I'm guessing the next elements will be Ice -> Fire and/or Wind -> Lightning. Though water is being restored to the First, the oceans will still remain still without Wind and the world's tectonic activity (Fire and Earth) to instill motion into the ocean. That said, Ice will be needed to keep the oceans from overflowing and drowning coastal settlements, so that should probably be done before we start making the oceans move. AFAIK Lightning has the least impact of the world's ecology of the six elements and should be saved for last.

It'd be cool if we'd get to keep Eden as our transdimmensional spaceship (after all this time, the Scions still don't even have their own airship!), but considering only one room was modeled and raid locations are never visited again after their story is finished, I have a feeling Eden will either be destroyed, lost, or drained of its power by the end of the story anyway.

[Granyala]

It's also possible that Eden will play a role in getting the scions back into the first.

[leviathonlx]

Somewhat tangentially related to the topic:

One thing I always liked about XIV is that when you invest in something, it often stays relevant forever - or at least a long time. I hated that in WoW you had to put so much into every new patch's content only to see it pushed aside for the next rep grind, the next set of followers, the next zone development, etc etc. Not to mention needing to do it again for each new class you wanted to play. Eventually I just stopped wanting to bother because...you know, why sink hours and hours into something that's going to be taken away shortly?
.

I like how you literally just described Eureka thru all of SB. The reality often is that the negatives tend to exist in both games.

Speaking if Eureka, I feel for all the poor bastards that didn't do it when it was relevant since it's impossible to get a SB relic now due to Eureka becoming dead content the moment ShB released exactly like everyone said it would.

[Dugna]

I like how you literally just described Eureka thru all of SB. The reality often is that the negatives tend to exist in both games.

Speaking if Eureka, I feel for all the poor bastards that didn't do it when it was relevant since it's impossible to get a SB relic now due to Eureka becoming dead content the moment ShB released exactly like everyone said it would.

yep but Yoshi said in further SHB patches they will either make it soloable or light party friendly.

[Katchii]

Somewhat tangentially related to the topic:

One thing I always liked about XIV is that when you invest in something, it often stays relevant forever - or at least a long time. I hated that in WoW you had to put so much into every new patch's content only to see it pushed aside for the next rep grind, the next set of followers, the next zone development, etc etc. Not to mention needing to do it again for each new class you wanted to play. Eventually I just stopped wanting to bother because...you know, why sink hours and hours into something that's going to be taken away shortly?

This is MMO's in a nutshell, at least as far main character power progression goes. All the new shinies are largely irrelevant whenever the next patch comes out.

The fun glamours/transmog type stuff won't ever go away which is why content surrounding it doesn't really ever turn irrelevant, it just gets old and stale for those that have already done it.

This is why I typically don't spend much time or effort farming tomes and doing the high end content because the gear I'm farming will be WAY easier to get next patch and eclipsed by even better gear and I don't even need gear that high level because I don't do the content that's designed around having it.

[leviathonlx]

yep but Yoshi said in further SHB patches they will either make it soloable or light party friendly.

I'll believe when we see it. We're still waiting on those egi glamours too.

[Wrecktangle]

This is MMO's in a nutshell, at least as far main character power progression goes. All the new shinies are largely irrelevant whenever the next patch comes out.

The fun glamours/transmog type stuff won't ever go away which is why content surrounding it doesn't really ever turn irrelevant, it just gets old and stale for those that have already done it.

This is why I typically don't spend much time or effort farming tomes and doing the high end content because the gear I'm farming will be WAY easier to get next patch and eclipsed by even better gear and I don't even need gear that high level because I don't do the content that's designed around having it.

This is why I think that the next generation of MMO's really needs to embrace user supplemented content. They need to be designed from the ground up to support design, collaboration and sharing IN GAME.

I look at WoW's API and addon culture. Look how that builds such an ENORMOUS and widely supported genre of content in that game. Not only that, but look how the developers see how it's being used and can glean data from it. They see something that 97% of the install base is using, and they go, well shit maybe we should build this into the game.

Taking that concept a step further, I always lean on side content in FF14 as an avenue that could literally keep me subbed 24x7. Look to modern examples of widely praised design to use as insight.

If you could make chocobo racing play like mario kart (or CTR IMO), let players design and share tracks, let people spectate races, build in single player time trials, leaderboards, bet gil/stuff, etc. BUT HERE'S THE KICKER. Don't just abandon it. Every new tileset that gets released, update the content. Keep it DEEP.

That's just one piece of side content, that damn well could be a standalone game built into the theme park MMO.

You could make Bliztball and model it after Rocket League, A HUGELY popular game. Instead of cars, it's your avatar, instead of a field, it's a water globe, but the mechanics and gameplay would be similar. Again, don't just let it die, build the content out to be deep. Add modes, build in single player, matchmaking, spectating, etc. You could have that same sensation that you'd see during League of Legends finals where people will watch their favorite teams and players, etc.

[Justpassing]

This is why I think that the next generation of MMO's really needs to embrace user supplemented content. They need to be designed from the ground up to support design, collaboration and sharing IN GAME.

I look at WoW's API and addon culture. Look how that builds such an ENORMOUS and widely supported genre of content in that game. Not only that, but look how the developers see how it's being used and can glean data from it. They see something that 97% of the install base is using, and they go, well shit maybe we should build this into the game.

Taking that concept a step further, I always lean on side content in FF14 as an avenue that could literally keep me subbed 24x7. Look to modern examples of widely praised design to use as insight.

If you could make chocobo racing play like mario kart (or CTR IMO), let players design and share tracks, let people spectate races, build in single player time trials, leaderboards, bet gil/stuff, etc. BUT HERE'S THE KICKER. Don't just abandon it. Every new tileset that gets released, update the content. Keep it DEEP.

That's just one piece of side content, that damn well could be a standalone game built into the theme park MMO.

You could make Bliztball and model it after Rocket League, A HUGELY popular game. Instead of cars, it's your avatar, instead of a field, it's a water globe, but the mechanics and gameplay would be similar. Again, don't just let it die, build the content out to be deep. Add modes, build in single player, matchmaking, spectating, etc. You could have that same sensation that you'd see during League of Legends finals where people will watch their favorite teams and players, etc.

User-made content is all fun and games till someone makes up a swastika or a boner.

[Faroth]

Forgive me, but what is New Game + exactly? Have a link that I might learn the details?

Basically will allow you to go back and replay Heavensward and Stormblood with your current level. No quest rewards from it, but you can go back and play through quest chains and see the MSQ solo trials again, etc.

I believe you're able to hop out of it and return to what you're doing and then go back to New Game+ MSQ when you wish as well.

[Katchii]

This is why I think that the next generation of MMO's really needs to embrace user supplemented content. They need to be designed from the ground up to support design, collaboration and sharing IN GAME.

I look at WoW's API and addon culture. Look how that builds such an ENORMOUS and widely supported genre of content in that game. Not only that, but look how the developers see how it's being used and can glean data from it. They see something that 97% of the install base is using, and they go, well shit maybe we should build this into the game.

Taking that concept a step further, I always lean on side content in FF14 as an avenue that could literally keep me subbed 24x7. Look to modern examples of widely praised design to use as insight.

If you could make chocobo racing play like mario kart (or CTR IMO), let players design and share tracks, let people spectate races, build in single player time trials, leaderboards, bet gil/stuff, etc. BUT HERE'S THE KICKER. Don't just abandon it. Every new tileset that gets released, update the content. Keep it DEEP.

That's just one piece of side content, that damn well could be a standalone game built into the theme park MMO.

You could make Bliztball and model it after Rocket League, A HUGELY popular game. Instead of cars, it's your avatar, instead of a field, it's a water globe, but the mechanics and gameplay would be similar. Again, don't just let it die, build the content out to be deep. Add modes, build in single player, matchmaking, spectating, etc. You could have that same sensation that you'd see during League of Legends finals where people will watch their favorite teams and players, etc.

I don't disagree that having user generated content would be amazing, I personally have never really taken part in much of it....besides the obvious of using the add-ons, but those aren't content, they're tools

A chocobo racing circuit similar to Mario Kart would be absolutely amazing and I'd play the shit out of it. The current iteration is so sub-par it's not even fun to me because it's all about stats, and almost nothing to do with skill. That's not racing, that's a pretty tunnel with the illusion of racing involved.

Blitzball would be fun too, not my thing, but would likely check it out and would absolutely support fleshing it out to be a full blown set of side content, like a full fledged game inside of a game.

The stuff that always get's me back is unique content that you either haven't experienced yet or that provides unique experiences each time you do it (like a racing, fighting or sports game; same activity, but can turn out differently each time). I don't count dungeons in this because even though the experiences can be slightly different, you as a character are usually doing almost the exact same thing in every one. In my experience, the thing that really keeps people coming back for this type of content is not the content itself but the people they're experiencing the content with.

Rarely do I find content that is the same every time to be entertaining, the two exceptions to that are usually FPS and Assassins Creed/Hitman type games (sneaky, stabby, action games with multiple ways to approach a situation), because those 10-30 seconds of action you get that repeat every so often are just SO fun and exciting. The majority of MMO's just can't replicate that kind of action currently. Blade and Soul and the Jedi Knight/ Sith Warrior class in SW:ToR come close (IMO anyway) to where simply having an excuse to play is enough because the game play is just THAT fun and entertaining.