Increase boss hp in Molten Core

[Frozenbro]

Those people that where that bad did not raid.

Anyone with time to farm w/e was needed could raid back then, there were no tools to meassure the skill of some1 like today, standards are diff, world first kills with half the raid being useless even proves this.

[Drusin]

*yawns and stretches*

#noChanges Leave my classic alone

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I raided in vanilla and nothing of that is true, we had fucking broadband back then... Where the hell do you live if you have that shitty internet

Rural virginia The best internet my parents can get is DSL lol and they only got that in 2010

[Bryntrollian]

At the rate they're being used up, yup i'd say they are more of a consumable. Its crazy how many classes are coming out of the woodwork with obscure stuff stuff being their BIS.

Those are the weird RPG elements that I really missed when WoW became so streamlined.

[Castration]

I raided in vanilla and nothing of that is true, we had fucking broadband back then... Where the hell do you live if you have that shitty internet and how dumb are you if you play like that? You guys acting like WoW was the first computergame ever made.
EU players did not sit on fucking dialup and crappy internet, unless you where in spain/portugal, they have bad internet and always have. (US still have bad internet).

Those people that where that bad did not raid.

My mistake... you never saw 1 person with this, so it cannot be true for anyone else in the entire world.

And apparently me saying that I saw many with these issues, means that it was me with the issues...

You have won this argument, here is your participation ribbon.

[Uoyredrum]

I raided in vanilla and nothing of that is true, we had fucking broadband back then... Where the hell do you live if you have that shitty internet and how dumb are you if you play like that? You guys acting like WoW was the first computergame ever made.
EU players did not sit on fucking dialup and crappy internet, unless you where in spain/portugal, they have bad internet and always have. (US still have bad internet).

Those people that where that bad did not raid.

My wife raided naxx on shitty DSL back then, so no.

[sopeonaroap]

Please provide patch notes for these "DRASTIC" buffs. I await your links, all patch notes are archived and readily available, and you claim to know all about the changes, so please provide blizzards patch notes outlining these buffs.

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This is somewhat true for mc (although drastically exaggerated) but it is not true for later raids. Watching the "vanilla was hard" crew desperately move the goalposts is the best thing about classic tbh.

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Again, please link the patch notes that indicate these extreme and drastic DPS increases. Not a single person has done so yet.

holy fuck is your position actually "there were no buffs or nerfs from launch to patch 1.12 (which is 1.5 years after launch)?

read the patch notes. EVERY SINGLE CLASS WAS REWORKED by 1.12. EVERY SINGLE PIECE OF GEAR HAD ITS ITEM BUDGET INCREASED by 1.12. EVERY SINGLE RAID WAS TUNED TO BE EASIER by 1.12 (including naxx which was cleared 10 times before 1.12 and about 100 afterward/before BC launched)

you don't seem to understand that the classic patch is the typical "end of expansion/everything is easier" patch. they went with it on purpose, it was the final/most accessible version of vanilla wow. the bc pre-patch changed too many things, added spells, etc and was an overhaul in its own right, but it was an addition. patch 1.12 was the culmination of a year of tuning

where is the proof? in the goddamn patch notes readily accessible by anyone who wants to see them. you can see what was changed and even undocumented changes.

the classic patch was post-tier 3, it's ONE POINT TWELVE, not ONE POINT ONE TWO, they had went from 1.1, 1.2, 1.3, 1.4, etc all the way to 1.12 by then. 12 patches of "tuning, fixing, changing"

just the debuff limit being twice as high as launch was massive, that was 2x the dot damage on a boss than was even possible when MC was the highest raid content

the classic version of wow is the easiest vanilla version of wow. they know what they're doing and they know the average retail player is gonna quit before 60 if it was as aggravatingly tough as early vanilla

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My wife raided naxx on shitty DSL back then, so no.

no she fucking did not. DSL penetration in 2005 was under 10% and already surpassed by cable and less than 1% of people killed a boss in naxx in vanilla, less than .1% cleared the whole raid in vanilla, only 10 guilds cleared it before patch 1.12 came out (6 months before BC launched) and around 130ish (worldwide) cleared it in vanilla. the odds of her raiding naxx on DSL in vanilla are around .08% lol

nobody was being carried and 1 bad player was enough to fuck the whole raid on a few bosses due to the debuffs going out. of the 130 "confirmed" (from the newest info i can find) guilds that cleared naxx, about 30-40 cleared it after 2.0 released (new talents, much more powerful everything with weaker bosses) and 80-90 cleared it in patch 1.12 which was the first "naxx nerf" due to characters/gear just being 25-40% more powerful overall

[Maglen]

#nochanges

/10char

[Jastall]

So Mythic HFC bosses getting blown up in 20 seconds meant it was irrelevant content?

One undertuned boss with no mechanics at the start of the fight got blown by a raid completely stacked with a specific spec meant for absurdly insane ST burst, using full Mythic gear and abusing an OP legendary that could only be obtained after many weeks of grinding, and that happened after more than a year of HFC if memory serves.

MC bosses get rekt in blues and some entry level epics by unstacked raids less than a month after Classic's launch.

[zhero]

Making bosses take 20 more seconds to kill won't magically make the raid harder.

MC is the first raid, it's not supposed to be an insurmountable challenge.

it was supposed to be difficult at the very least, especially if people were still sporting greens o' plenty and everyone not max level.

[Tiwack]

You're free to go in with less players as has already been suggested. Doubling hp wouldn't stop threads like this from appearing. It was a simple raid and classic is a sandbox museum.

[Beet]

Unfortunately this is the problem we knew we'd get with patch 1.12. Blizzard should have given us true progression like vanilla. Give us the patch when Rag died for example for our Molten Core experience. This means most classes wouldn't have had their gigantic revamp yet so they'd be a lot worse, but that would also allow it to be a true recreation. Increasing health wouldn't do much now. That ship has sailed. BWL is going to be the same thing too. AQ40 is when we will see a wall for many people. Don't get me wrong, the best people will clear it super fast still but your average guild isn't going to enter it and clear Cthun night one. In fact I suspect Sartura will stomp a lot of people because of how weird she was to tank. Then you've got Huhuran who will still require NR on at least ten people. But the big cockblock for many will be Twin Emperors.

[Dch48]

It was as meaningless in 1.12 as it was in 1.3

There wasn't some massive jump in ease that you want to believe there was. MC just was never hard.

It was for my guild back in Vanilla. We had to stack about 8 Warlocks for the banishes on that rock boss and his adds. It took us at least 15 tries to down Rag.

[RuneDK]

I notice that split running with 20 people has become a thing. I could get behind that, but it's kinda odd to have to divide your guild into 2 teams like that.

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I wait with baited breath for the non-existant parses from first time MC clears in late 04/early 05 that had pre-submerge Rag kills and 30 second kills on other bosses.

You're just blatantly wrong here.

MC was never hard, you have to realize that internet connections were a major issue for most of Vanilla wow. Also, 15 years later players are just better...so...yea...then it didn't happen...not it can because of these reasons.

[agentsi]

Quoted for truth.

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OP is gonna be so dissapointed when top guilds faceroll everything naxx included, but thats classic, if you expect anything different then you are insanely delusional.

Seconded for truth. OP is one of those delusional kids playing Classic for "clout".

""We killed this raid boss in 30 seconds, it took you 90 seconds 15 years ago. HAH! IN your face.""


Once my guild had some decent gear, and everyone was 60+, it would only take 1-2 mins to kill a boss. It was clearing all the trash that ended up taking forever. That was with 20+ folks just being friends and us needing to have warm bodies in the raid to help where they could.

Raiding classic to be the "best" at it, might be one of the most pathetic things I've seen in MMO gaming in a long time. No one plays TLP servers to be the best, they play to experience content as it was meant to be experienced.

[aeuhe4yxzhds]

holy fuck is your position actually "there were no buffs or nerfs from launch to patch 1.12 (which is 1.5 years after launch)?

read the patch notes. EVERY SINGLE CLASS WAS REWORKED by 1.12. EVERY SINGLE PIECE OF GEAR HAD ITS ITEM BUDGET INCREASED by 1.12. EVERY SINGLE RAID WAS TUNED TO BE EASIER by 1.12 (including naxx which was cleared 10 times before 1.12 and about 100 afterward/before BC launched)

you don't seem to understand that the classic patch is the typical "end of expansion/everything is easier" patch. they went with it on purpose, it was the final/most accessible version of vanilla wow. the bc pre-patch changed too many things, added spells, etc and was an overhaul in its own right, but it was an addition. patch 1.12 was the culmination of a year of tuning

where is the proof? in the goddamn patch notes readily accessible by anyone who wants to see them. you can see what was changed and even undocumented changes.

the classic patch was post-tier 3, it's ONE POINT TWELVE, not ONE POINT ONE TWO, they had went from 1.1, 1.2, 1.3, 1.4, etc all the way to 1.12 by then. 12 patches of "tuning, fixing, changing"

just the debuff limit being twice as high as launch was massive, that was 2x the dot damage on a boss than was even possible when MC was the highest raid content

the classic version of wow is the easiest vanilla version of wow. they know what they're doing and they know the average retail player is gonna quit before 60 if it was as aggravatingly tough as early vanilla

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no she fucking did not. DSL penetration in 2005 was under 10% and already surpassed by cable and less than 1% of people killed a boss in naxx in vanilla, less than .1% cleared the whole raid in vanilla, only 10 guilds cleared it before patch 1.12 came out (6 months before BC launched) and around 130ish (worldwide) cleared it in vanilla. the odds of her raiding naxx on DSL in vanilla are around .08% lol

nobody was being carried and 1 bad player was enough to fuck the whole raid on a few bosses due to the debuffs going out. of the 130 "confirmed" (from the newest info i can find) guilds that cleared naxx, about 30-40 cleared it after 2.0 released (new talents, much more powerful everything with weaker bosses) and 80-90 cleared it in patch 1.12 which was the first "naxx nerf" due to characters/gear just being 25-40% more powerful overall

Imagine lmao thinking america have any relevancy. DSL was common in wealthy advanced EU cities. 0.5mbit where it started, then 8mbit and finally before ethernet(what retards call fiber) 24mbit or something. All you needed was a phone line and a station close by that was converted or some shit

Really dont remember anyone not being on broadband (aDSL) that played. Shitters got removed, anyone that complained about "lag" whenever they entered BRM slowly got replaced.

Another thing i remember was the first guild(rival guild on other faction) killed ragnaros before submerge. Melee had to run out to not get flown away, that lowered dps a bit. People have to remember vanilla is more about your gear matter. The skill ceiling is much lower but you cant get away from going oom in fights and eventually wiping. In retail you just bring warlocks lmao etc. Different game and you cant compare them any more.

Keyboard turners were hated as much as today as then. Talents, specs and how to play was available online just as it is now with icyveins. Shit guilds today would be shit back then.

[barackohmama]

Lmao MC was never ever hard. Player quality and skill has skyrocketed in the past 15 years.

MC is the entry level raid. And skills has not skyrocketed. They pruned a lot of abilities.. current wow is a joke. all you have to do is be aware of incoming boss abilities and move away from shit. It's an arcade joke of a game. No wonder why people prefer Classic over Retail, they don't like the Counter-Strike wow has become and prefer a game that has some originality to it.

[phattsao]

Repeat after me: Vanilla raids were never hard.

Maybe not...but they certainly were never this easy. Something is clearly wrong.

[FelPlague]

I notice that split running with 20 people has become a thing. I could get behind that, but it's kinda odd to have to divide your guild into 2 teams like that.

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I wait with baited breath for the non-existant parses from first time MC clears in late 04/early 05 that had pre-submerge Rag kills and 30 second kills on other bosses.

You're just blatantly wrong here.

before TBC prepatch.
i think this was a BWL group, based on the gear. so these guys have been doing BWL (Down nefarian atleast once as they do have some nef gear but alot of them still seem to be in pretty weak gear) oh i do see a tiny bit of AQ gear I THINK and decide to go back and kill rag in 1:15 pre submerge.

[ThrashMetalFtw]

Why do you think bosses go down faster than before if there is no DPS increse? You do know that DPS stand for Damage Per Second right?

And do you think peple have become better att pressing their one damage ability button today than they where in 2005?

The improved classes and extra debuffslots plays a part yes, but the by far biggest increase in damage comes from people actually having a clue how to gear their chars properly, use consumables, better PCs/connections and actually know how to play their classes today.

Or do you actually think that people didn't manage to improve on anything from Classic during 15 years of private server theorycrafting?


If MC had been released as it was the very first time: With the worst version of the Classic talents, the hardest version of the bosses, and the worst version of gear available, Apes would still have raped Rag. They might have used 7 days instead of 6 from the launch, but they would still have breezed through MC like the joke it is.

Pretty sure most privateservers did what I wrote above with their progressive content releases, AND further buffed all raids by a significant amount, just because they were deemed "too easy" by the community.

[Kikoku]

Yes

How did you manage to ignore -video link-?
It's still 6.2.

@HFC Speed Clear

You are right that it was current and still within 6.2. However, 6.2 lasted well over a year and considering the video has an upload date of May 2016 and HFC was released in June 2015. It doesn't surprise me that people would be over geared and stack a powerful class to do this feat. It's not like they could've done this after a month.