Mythic+ mentality ruined classic dungeons

[Frozenstorm]

I don't play retail and don't understand this thread. Optimization while leveling has always been a thing, even in classic.

The only difference is, now we have a bigger audience of players using the internet. Often on the internet people go to forums to "COMPLAIN" and not to provide constructive criticism, just like the OP here. Bitching for the sake of bitching I guess? Or because they are ignorant to the fact this existed in vanilla... This is a obvious trigger post to try to get people to argue.

If you really believe that this didn't occur in Vanilla... you are just plain wrong. There were always players trying to do things "Faster". Players "Power leveled" in vanilla, just they didn't stream it and because it wasn't streamed, it never got as popular.

I've had 0 issues finding either AOE groups or normal groups just looking to clear the content at a steady pace. I did 3 SM Lib runs yesterday that was just chill and no one was "AOE SPAM BLAH BLAH BLAH". I don't care how other players decide to enjoy the game. I also see 0 point in posting this crap on the forums to just start flame wars and "internet" fighting.

OP is lame and just trying to trigger people. I know they are coming off as "innocent" and just trying to ask the question, but lets get real... It is brought up so often that I really think some people in this world or just plain stupid to the point that they are pathological liars who kid themselves everyday.

[Tommi]

Oh these Classicucks make me laugh at times...

[StrawberryZebra]

The goal will be achieved, they won't be able to AOE the 60 dungeons, and every other player will be a mage, making it hard for them to get groups for the first time.

I've not been 60 long, but quite literally every single level 60 Dungeon I've done has been an AoE Fest. I'm playing a Warlock and all I do for most of the dungeon is spam Rain of Fire. Maybe Hellfire if the tank is geared up and the healer is fine with it. I even use Demonic Sacrifice on my Imp for the bonus to Fire Damage to AoE better.

My groups AoEd their way through everything from SM all the way through to UBRS. Even the MC pug I joined today before the EU reset just chain pulled their way through the raid and cleared everything to Majordomo in around 90 minutes.

I'm really not sure what you're basing these claims on, but they don't line up at all with my experiences at all.

[munkeyinorbit]

"My xp per hour is low". Thats retail mentality.

You mean all the scrubs from retail are coming to classic and curbstomping vanilla players? Or has this tactic come from the PS as they are the ones who have refined the levelling experience? What is more likely?

I think this is just another attack on the retail base that carry the majority of the classic population. Every day the 4M (from some sources) of us have to endure attacks from people who are severely disappointed that their rose tinted glasses have been shattered. They blame retail players for the perceived ills of the game when in reality they should just be angry at themselves. The game has had 15 years to evolve (and I am only talking about vanilla here) and it is vanillas greatest proponents that have done it.

[kail]

People are letting me tank as a Shaman and I am able to hold aggro better than any Warrior ever could with much more passive mitigation, you do you OP.

If you're clearing dungeons fine with shantanks, good on you. But warriors are the king of threat, no contest. That's just how classic is.

OT: It's called the Meta mentality and exists over the videogame industry. Team shooters have their Meta, MOBAs have theirs as do MMOs, and etc.

[Frozenstorm]

Trying to be cool? I don't know if that was a response to me. I'm too mature to care about this whole "Classic" vs "Retail" BS.

I have my own opinion about the two games and don't care about anyone online who has a different one... because it's a ridiculous argument. Both games are identical at the core. You do the same thing. You play, you gain xp, you get gear, rince repeat.

Retail leveling is brain dead boring and forces players to try and get it done QUICK. 120 Levels did that.

Vanilla (Classic) - Leveling is brain dead boring and forces players to try and get it done quick... Retail didn't cause this, it was the same on launch.

Arguing one effected the other is stupid. They are the same game, built off the exact same principles.

The only thing I will agree on, is the playerbase will RUIN both games. The reason for this, entitlement. Gamers today feel like they are owed every damn fucking thing for nothing. THAT is what is ruining gaming now, and the blame is on the players. This is why you get these blanket statements from Blizzard saying " You think you want it, but you don't ". They have no clue what players want because they have so many piles of shit to sift through.

[neik]

Everywhere you look its people asking for mage aoe or cleave comp or ridiculous level requirements, like 46+ for things like ZF.

The result of years worth creating a playerbase with a "400ilvl minimum for a mythic +1 zerg derp" mentality.

And yes, i know i can make my own groups. Who cares. Its about retail mentality seeping into classic, which sucks balls.

Thoughts?

Can you be more specific? As far as I remember it has always been this way. I remember mages being in demand.

[Monteverdi]

I've played a tank since I started playing the game 13 years ago, and I can tell you that the number one reason why tanks would be labelled as 'good tanks' and be constantly asked to tank things for people they've run with previously is their ability to do things quickly.

Speed is king. This is not a new phenomenon.

[Big Thanks]

There is plenty of food for everyone.

I see those "LF1M Mage spellcleave SM Cath" spaming the chat but there is plenty of normal groups.

I just had a Uldaman run where no one on the group knew the way into the instance. I had to lead as DPS and show them all bosses
Pretty fun experience.

[erifwodahs]

Optimal comps have always been a thing. Wasn't it Vanilla players who said that community would shut down such behaviour? if you can 4 mage a dungeon, why not? You pick your play style, which is so sought after thing! "wanna be rogue tank? be one!" Why would any reasonable person choose to go slowly through the dungeon when they can go fast? First time - sure, second time, maybe. 3rd or 4th time you just want to wing it. You find the skips, shortcuts, optimal pulls instead of having that "first time exp of 2hrs of ZF"

[clevin]

I'm thinking that it won't over the long run. This is a long-running argument about whether or not the configuration of the content can really control behavior. Many have invested in the idea that it can and it must with Classic. I don't really think it will. 2019 gamers will find ways to play the game and content the way they've grown used to. We won't really know for a few months yet. A lot of people still need to decide if they want to invest in Classic for the long haul.

we'll see. The thing is, there's no real benefit to running dungeons really fast, over and over. There aren't badges and for leveling dungeons, it only matters if you're trying to level in them. At 60, there won't be a real reason to speed run them aside from saving time and I'm not sure you save much time if you spend a lot more time trying to gather a group. Obviously if you have a set group or a list of people who all want to do it that way it will help.


But there are a lot of people playing Classic precisely because we don't want to gogogo, pull everything OMG go faster!!!! The real question to me is whether those people who want to clear 5 mans fast stick around once they get to 60 and don't get any advantage from doing it (i.e. no faster leveling and no badges).

This is a long-running argument about whether or not the configuration of the content can really control behavior.

Control isn't the right word. But design absolutely can influence behavior. I don't think that's really disputable. LFG in 3.3 being across servers influenced how people made groups for 5 mans. Daily heroic quests also introduced then definitely influenced people to run heroics often. Badges, starting in TBC, gave people reasons to speed run Kara and some 5 mans. So it's not really up for dispute that design influences things.

I've also found myself grouping for quests in Classic (being invited to open world groups and inviting people to mine) and can't remember the last time that happened in retail. Part of that is the population of each game but part of it is that I simply don't have any need to get help in retail whereas it can certainly help speed things in Classic.

[Nite92]

Everywhere you look its people asking for mage aoe or cleave comp or ridiculous level requirements, like 46+ for things like ZF.

The result of years worth creating a playerbase with a "400ilvl minimum for a mythic +1 zerg derp" mentality.

And yes, i know i can make my own groups. Who cares. Its about retail mentality seeping into classic, which sucks balls.

Thoughts?

The majority of dungeons is probably done by cleave grps.
But would there be significantly less groups for dungeon quests? I doubt that, because the majority (of people who quest) does each dungeon for the quests, and maybe once more for gear.

If that is somewhat true, the 'spam' you see is from people doing dungeons instead of questing, and not instead of running a dungeon for Q's with you. Which would mean, you get mad about people playing the game in a way you don't like.

And one more side note, most dungeons groups wanted always a mage/wl for aoeing smaller mobs.

[Irian]

A lot of people guessed this would happen to begin with. Time can't just be reversed to a state where people don't know shit anymore, and gaming culture can't just be changed because of nostalgia. As time goes on and people want to get shit done more and more you'll see more people selling carries and boosts and less of the good will out in the world and eventually you won't be able to tell the difference between the two communities.

What people need to realize is that what ruined retail is in no small part the players themselves. Once the honeymoon phase wears off we'll start to see the ugly side of the playerbase again because honestly WoW's average player is not the type to take something slow for the sake of others.

[Barzotti]

"Damn Retail! They ruined Classic by... draws a random card... making things more efficient!"

[Yunaqt]

There's a bunch of groups that just run these dungeons to do the quests etc. There's also groups there for a specific purpose, to chain run a specific part for XP instead of questing which is comp based.

Just go with the first of these groups.

[shinji204]

Everywhere you look its people asking for mage aoe or cleave comp or ridiculous level requirements, like 46+ for things like ZF.

The result of years worth creating a playerbase with a "400ilvl minimum for a mythic +1 zerg derp" mentality.

And yes, i know i can make my own groups. Who cares. Its about retail mentality seeping into classic, which sucks balls.

Thoughts?

Farm groups always happened in vanilla. Either you weren't playing back then or you are use to retail.

[Dziubla]

"My xp per hour is low". Thats retail mentality.

Call it retail mentality if you want, but it has very little to do with retail actually, and more with how gamers evolved. Nowadays everything (in every game, not just retail WoW) is about efficiency. People no longer want to waste time as they used to do in vanilla, doing one quest for over an hour, or spending several hours running one dungeon. Nowadays if you CAN do something fast, you SHOULD (or, for some people, MUST) do it fast. And it's not likely to change, so I guess you either have to adapt, or just ignore what others are doing, and play at your own pace, and do what is fun for YOU, not for others.

[Unholyground]

If you're clearing dungeons fine with shantanks, good on you. But warriors are the king of threat, no contest. That's just how classic is.

OT: It's called the Meta mentality and exists over the videogame industry. Team shooters have their Meta, MOBAs have theirs as do MMOs, and etc.

Well I also have 10 years experience as a tank so that does help, and a deeper understanding of classic WoW mechanics than most have. I am sure it helps but my goal is to change the meta enough so that Shaman that know how to Tank can get groups without cockbags dismissing them.

[Fred Skinner]

Yeah, i think the missing novelty (everyone knows the content, the general boss and class mechanics already) and the nowadays toxic existing community will make classic another piece of content, nothing more.

Consumed asap, just to be forgotten one month later.

[Snufflupagus]

People are letting me tank as a Shaman and I am able to hold aggro better than any Warrior ever could with much more passive mitigation, you do you OP.

Could you make a post in shaman forum detailing how to do this for young padawans like me who want to become strong in the ways of enhance?