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  1. #141
    Quote Originally Posted by Bigbazz View Post
    Yeah Ret and Enhancement are fantastic too! What a guy.
    No, as in competitive with rogues and mages.

    You REALLY don't know what you're talking about, i'll help you out. Check out Shedo on youtube, he can educate you.

  2. #142
    Herald of the Titans Will's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigbazz View Post
    Yeah Ret and Enhancement are fantastic too! What a guy.
    No, feral are actually good. Way ahead of ret and enh. Feral can easily reach top 5.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Tuhokoura View Post
    No. Idio... I mean Purists who thought they knew (or remembered) what Vanilla was wanted this. And this is how it should stay forever. Let them play their failure and I can enjoy peaceful refined retail.
    If vanilla were a failure the game wouldn't be where it is today. Just because you don't enjoy / something doesn't appeal to you, it does not make it a failure.

  3. #143
    Mechagnome Drpizka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poe View Post
    https://classic.warcraftlogs.com/zon...1000#class=DPS

    https://classic.warcraftlogs.com/zon...#class=Healers

    These specs are ridiculously overtuned. Classes like hunter, paladin, druid and shaman have absolutely no chance at performing on a viable level. I understand people want no changes but if the tuning looks this bad (PS this tuning is worse than BFA) then I do not understand why the game is getting so much praise.

    It's a shame when half of the classes in the game are not viable. I think of this as an absolute development failure.
    hahahahahahahahahhahaha

    NO

  4. #144
    Quote Originally Posted by Grimbolt View Post
    You dont need parses and logs to play classic. Thats one of the charms of classic. Stop worrying about it and play the class you like and want to play and find a guild that needs a body. There are plenty of guilds that needs bodies and any class and spec and it will only get easier and easier to find a spot.
    ^ This. Nothing in classic is remotely difficult. Especially if you have been playing retail.

  5. #145
    Quote Originally Posted by awadh View Post
    And yet there are 9 dps classes present on the kill of the FINAL boss on the FINAL difficulty of the raid. Man, so many dps classes simply not viable!1 dang!
    Yes? and the guy i quoted said that classic (which is known for being the worst in balance) said that in regards to class stacking its better than BFA, when not even the world first needed to class stack, you are dense AF go back to school so you can learn to read again.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Leanne View Post
    Yeh, it's much less boring pressing your Frost Bolt button until the boss dies. /sarcasm off

    This is the biggest myth about classic class design tbh - that classes were somehow superior mechanically or more enjoyable when in fact hey had almost 0 depth.
    Quoted for truth, i cant stop laughing when people say that classes in classic had depth when they are 1 button rotation or just autoattacks, you can be mentally handicapped and still top the charts on classic.

  6. #146
    Quote Originally Posted by OriginalName View Post
    No, as in competitive with rogues and mages.

    You REALLY don't know what you're talking about, i'll help you out. Check out Shedo on youtube, he can educate you.
    Check warcraftlogs. Ferals are no where near mages or rogues. That being said, they are far better than rets and enhances

  7. #147
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    I guess you have not played the game in forever then. Most classes have unique utility and that has been fairly significant over multiple encounters and types of content over the years.
    I raided mythic as recently as legion. What's unique about elemental or enhancement shaman that another class can't do?

  8. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poe View Post
    https://classic.warcraftlogs.com/zon...1000#class=DPS

    https://classic.warcraftlogs.com/zon...#class=Healers

    These specs are ridiculously overtuned. Classes like hunter, paladin, druid and shaman have absolutely no chance at performing on a viable level. I understand people want no changes but if the tuning looks this bad (PS this tuning is worse than BFA) then I do not understand why the game is getting so much praise.

    It's a shame when half of the classes in the game are not viable. I think of this as an absolute development failure.
    Classic was demanded, Classic was delivered. I cant muster any sympathy because what was asked for was delivered.

    --- Want any of my Constitutional rights?, ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
    I come from a time and a place where I judge people by the content of their character; I don't give a damn if you are tall or short; gay or straight; Jew or Gentile; White, Black, Brown or Green; Conservative or Liberal. -- Note to mods: if you are going to infract me have the decency to post the reason, and expect to hold everyone else to the same standard.

  9. #149
    Quote Originally Posted by OriginalName View Post
    No, as in competitive with rogues and mages.

    You REALLY don't know what you're talking about, i'll help you out. Check out Shedo on youtube, he can educate you.
    I don't know what I'm talking about, yet the feral druid in my own guild who has a few of the rank 1 parses for feral dps right now on classic is basically bottom of the dps with the top dps doing 3x as much damage. There are literally zero (0) logs on private servers or classic where Feral is doing anywhere near what would be viable damage relative to the top classes, if it was retail people would be crying to the stars at how bad the spec is but in your eyes because this is classic doing 1/3-1/2 of the dps of your other raiders while getting a rank 1 parse is somehow competitive?

    By all means prove me wrong, with some actual proof rather than soothing your feelings by telling me I don't know what I'm talking about. Being better than Ret is not the same thing as being competitive with rogues and mages.
    Last edited by Bigbazz; 2019-09-17 at 10:58 PM.
    Probably running on a Pentium 4

  10. #150
    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Midnight Bomber View Post
    Paladin, Druid, and Shaman all have to pay the Hybrid Tax.
    Isn't warrior technically a hybrid?


    OT: Something parses and logs don't show is buffs - unfortunately .. and only caring about DPS ends up killing any type of support class. Though, this is a little extreme.

    You can have the classic experience and still fix some of these classes.
    Last edited by Self Inflicted Wounds; 2019-09-17 at 10:59 PM.

  11. #151
    Quote Originally Posted by bmjclark View Post
    People wanted classic, they're getting classic. And all the "balance" that comes with it.
    We wanted Vanilla with proper progression.

    We got Classic with spellpower greens, 1.12 talents and nerfs to content plus items in their final form.

  12. #152
    Quote Originally Posted by Lemonpartyfan View Post
    Isn't warrior technically a hybrid?
    Sort of. I would consider them hybrids in the same way that Priests are. I think the primary difference would be that typically a Warrior or a Priest primarily specs into one of their two roles and they can't readily jump between those as effectively as the other hybrids.
    “The biggest communication problem is we do not listen to understand. We listen to reply,” Stephen Covey.

  13. #153
    Bloodsail Admiral Firatha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sezh View Post
    Are you revealing to us that Blizzard has been working on tuning and bringing classes closer to each other performance wise over the years and the first iteration of their game had less balance than the current?
    SNIP
    The resolution of this is just gorgeous.
    My rogue RIP 2004-2019
    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Amadeus View Post
    No they don’t learn and evidence suggests that. Behavior also doesn’t change and if there is any hope of learning behavior has to change.

    Not meaningless declarations easy to say after he regrets offering up evidence he’s a racist.

  14. #154
    Quote Originally Posted by bmjclark View Post
    Check warcraftlogs. Ferals are no where near mages or rogues. That being said, they are far better than rets and enhances
    Quote Originally Posted by Bigbazz View Post
    I don't know what I'm talking about, yet the feral druid in my own guild who has a few of the rank 1 parses for feral dps right now on classic is basically bottom of the dps with the top dps doing 3x as much damage. There are literally zero (0) logs on private servers or classic where Feral is doing anywhere near what would be viable damage relative to the top classes, if it was retail people would be crying to the stars at how bad the spec is but in your eyes because this is classic doing 1/3-1/2 of the dps of your other raiders while getting a rank 1 parse is somehow competitive?

    By all means prove me wrong, with some actual proof rather than soothing your feelings by telling me I don't know what I'm talking about. Being better than Ret is not the same thing as being competitive with rogues and mages.
    Generally no1 talks about vanilla class output from the perspective of prebis/mc, it's pointless. BWL will be the 40 man raid that lasts the longest, from P3 to P5, then we can start talking actual tiers, because right now only rogues and warriors exist and sometimes mages.

    But sure, you're completely right that feral in prebis isn't as good as the current S tiers, even though no1 cares about this tier, at all.

  15. #155
    Quote Originally Posted by Sezh View Post
    Are you revealing to us that Blizzard has been working on tuning and bringing classes closer to each other performance wise over the years and the first iteration of their game had less balance than the current?

    I just need this quoted in it's full glory

  16. #156
    You seem to not understand what viable means though. Every spec is viable in Classic. Literally any spec. Especially in MC/Ony, which are entry raids and stupid easy with 1.12 balances.

    Are some specs miles behind others, yes. Does it matter? No.
    Quote Originally Posted by atenime45 View Post
    The 10% reward. It's was unspoken rule that you DONT attack other faction so everyone could enjoy the 10% reward. But now no one cares about that anymore

  17. #157
    Quote Originally Posted by Noxina View Post
    You seem to not understand what viable means though. Every spec is viable in Classic. Literally any spec. Especially in MC/Ony, which are entry raids and stupid easy with 1.12 balances.

    Are some specs miles behind others, yes. Does it matter? No.
    viable, yes. competitive, no

    0/0/0 is viable in molten core on pmuch any class, too.

  18. #158
    Quote Originally Posted by OriginalName View Post
    Generally no1 talks about vanilla class output from the perspective of prebis/mc, it's pointless. BWL will be the 40 man raid that lasts the longest, from P3 to P5, then we can start talking actual tiers, because right now only rogues and warriors exist and sometimes mages.

    But sure, you're completely right that feral in prebis isn't as good as the current S tiers, even though no1 cares about this tier, at all.
    The problem with that is that mages and rogues and warriors all scale far better than feral. As far as i know, ferals are currently wearing BiS pieces for not just this phase, but the entire game (crowd control pummeler, the energy helm that i can't remember its name). I don't really think there's a light at the end of this tunnel.

  19. #159
    Quote Originally Posted by rohoz View Post
    viable, yes. competitive, no

    0/0/0 is viable in molten core on pmuch any class, too.
    Yeah, thats what I said. Any spec is viable.
    Quote Originally Posted by atenime45 View Post
    The 10% reward. It's was unspoken rule that you DONT attack other faction so everyone could enjoy the 10% reward. But now no one cares about that anymore

  20. #160
    hmm..a frost specced war that is able to heal and has awesome combat skills. *NEERRRRRRF!*
    The hunter hoe with the least beloe.

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