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  1. #81
    The Lightbringer
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    Don’t agree with op at all
    Classic talent system is dumb and boring

  2. #82
    Im suprised how people complaining bout class balancing and want more clusters.

  3. #83
    yeah no shit, class halls were originally going to be a warlock thing, then they just stole everything that gave that class flavor to feed mage, DH, and all the others.
    and im someone who likes the new talent trees, but the fact that alot of classes lost alot of their flavor isn't invisible.
    losing class quests also prevented any form of tutorial from existing for each class while lvling, which inevitably led to a lowering of assumed player capacity and a subsequent lowering of the skill-ceiling.

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by scarletanh View Post
    Im suprised how people complaining bout class balancing and want more clusters.
    Balancing is exactly what you will never have if we continue to have this separated, can't you understand that until they make classes with less talent rows to choose and specs, they will get lazier to balance it all. And hope they say goodbye as well to this new gear systems with traits. I miss the old tier sets.
    Last edited by Shakana; 2019-09-18 at 01:41 AM.

  5. #85
    I do not agree and i find it completely pointless regardless.

    I am a defender of spec identity. That is all i need. Imo it was one of the few things Legion did right.

  6. #86
    It is too focused on the specs, but that can't change at this point.
    What it lacks is enough unique elements between all classes.
    I hope they will start by returning key spells from the past, and I believe they will, based on what was said about alter time and warrior stances.
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  7. #87
    Class identity has definitely been lost by getting rid of things like unique quests and things like soul shards, portal runes, paladin sigils, etc., not to mention class specific quests like the warlock and paladin mount quest lines. Class Halls made classes feel distinct and fun, and the Artifact weapons made even specializations fun, I don't care that it sucked for alts, taking that away made them all feel very homogeneous again.

  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyphael View Post
    not to mention class specific quests like the warlock and paladin mount quest lines. Class Halls made classes feel distinct and fun, and the Artifact weapons made even specializations fun, I don't care that it sucked for alts, taking that away made them all feel very homogeneous again.
    Ye Legion had a peak of making classes feels classes even with different specs. Maybe that's why i loved it so much. The mage tower was a piece of amazing content.
    It was solo, but it was really good. Probably something i still miss and it's nice when you see people not running around with your weapon that people didn't got when mage tower came out. Cause it was a unique experience. And a unique reward that is unobtainable now.

    Class identity has definitely been lost by getting rid of things like unique quests and things like soul shards, portal runes, paladin sigils, etc.,
    Indeed, seems like many people has lost some memory about what it was being just a class, and what it is now being a spec. Almost feels like a sub-class.
    Last edited by Shakana; 2019-09-18 at 01:52 AM.

  9. #89
    Classic is not the good alternative, it's at best the opposite extreme, where class balance is ass in how 'different' (i.e. FOTM and garbage) they are to eachother.

    That most classes can do multiple roles is not an issue in the slightest. The issue is that they don't make anything special out of those differences. They used to have some, but then people bitched over balancing...

    What I think is at fault is both the lack of class specific quests and rewards (Mage Tower, pls gieb back), but on the note of quests, it can go both ways... I detested BM 'lore' in Legion something vicious, Survival was so much cooler, didn't care for MM, DH was allright, don't remember druid, but I only really bothered with bear anyway. I kinda wish feral had gotten a more were-cat-ish form instead of...coked out space cat.

    WoW has made leaps and strides when it comes to raid mechanics, I wish they'd make changes for how statuses affect, or rather don't, bosses... I kinda like what GW2 has. Support roles are actually usable, they never would be in WoW, that sort of system cuts down on how much identity you can afford the different classes, and further, specs, without horrible contrivances.

  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyphael View Post
    Class identity has definitely been lost by getting rid of things like unique quests and things like soul shards, portal runes, paladin sigils, etc., not to mention class specific quests like the warlock and paladin mount quest lines. Class Halls made classes feel distinct and fun, and the Artifact weapons made even specializations fun, I don't care that it sucked for alts, taking that away made them all feel very homogeneous again.
    Class Halls probably killed any chance of seeing unique quests again. They were the reason why people believe 7.2 had no content when in actuality it was split 12 ways.

  11. #91
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    Yeah this is something I discussed with my guild for an hour the other day. Blizzard ruined the enjoyment for me when they stopped giving classes their strengths and weaknesses. Not everybody needs mobility. Not everybody needs to be able to heal or stun. Not everybody needs big dps cooldowns.

    Classic is far from perfect, but it did classes well. Youll note I said classes not specs because obviously some specs are useless. But look at the various strengths and cons. Rogues have stun lock, insane burst, and can do great damage. Warriors can close gaps with charge and intercept but are still vulnerable to being kited and focused down. They also have the only MS effect. And its actually 50% not a weak 25% or less one. Hunters, my favorite class in vanilla. Masters at kiting and controlling things but if you get a warrior on them they're screwed. And someone who knows how to abuse the dead zone wrecks them.

    Not every class has everything like on todays WoW. We don't need multiple people with the same buffs. Oh wait I forget in BFA there really are no buffs. Because for some reason its good to not have buffs? I always felt Paladin suffered so much on identity without buffs or auras.

  12. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyphael View Post
    Class identity has definitely been lost by getting rid of things like unique quests and things like soul shards, portal runes, paladin sigils, etc., not to mention class specific quests like the warlock and paladin mount quest lines. Class Halls made classes feel distinct and fun, and the Artifact weapons made even specializations fun, I don't care that it sucked for alts, taking that away made them all feel very homogeneous again.
    Artifact weapons were garbage because of AP, without it - or rather - without AP being too overpowered compared to the gear, it wouldn't suck so much for alts.

    That's being said, classes felt homogenized in legion, each class got the same = artifact, class hall, class mount. So how did that made distinction between classes if all of them had pretty much the same features just with a different textures?

  13. #93
    Actually I literally do not care at all to have abilities from other specs, all this talk of retail "lacking class identity" is just a bunch of dumb shit being parroted by the classic crowd cuz somebody on youtube told them to think and say that.

    You people complain about homogenization somehow yet you want to homogenize 36 unique fully fleshed out specs into 12 classes with less clear identities than what we currently have now. If I'm a demonology warlock I don't care to have access to abilities from destruction, all that does is water down my spec and make any distinction completely meaningless.

    No I absolutely do not want to go back to vanilla style "class identity" as you call it i.e. being pigeon holed into one single style of play per class.

  14. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by Beet View Post
    Not every class has everything like on todays WoW. We don't need multiple people with the same buffs. Oh wait I forget in BFA there really are no buffs. Because for some reason its good to not have buffs? I always felt Paladin suffered so much on identity without buffs or auras.
    Thats wrong, classes have buffs in BfA, legion didn't have them, memory malfunctioning?

  15. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by gd8 View Post
    Actually I literally do not care at all to have abilities from other specs, all this talk of retail "lacking class identity" is just a bunch of dumb shit being parroted by the classic crowd cuz somebody on youtube told them to think and say that.

    You people complain about homogenization somehow yet you want to homogenize 36 unique fully fleshed out specs into 12 classes with less clear identities than what we currently have now. If I'm a demonology warlock I don't care to have access to abilities from destruction, all that does is water down my spec and make any distinction completely meaningless.

    No I absolutely do not want to go back to vanilla style "class identity" as you call it i.e. being pigeon holed into one single style of play per class.
    I'm not saying to go back to vanilla/classic, obviously the world evolves, i don't want to have a wand and auto attack things and level weapons on RETAIL. I'm saying the separated specs feels clunky and forgotten when it comes to identify a class, because in a expansion or some point of a patch that same class will almost forget about one spec that is almost unplayable. Going to give this example:

    - Frost DKs were a mess in the beginning of BFA, with GCD's and bad blizzard balance, no one wanted to be frost but unholy.
    - Feral druid fiasco, Feral druid was never a good option too

    If you're a class that can't even reroll to a spec you like, why would you want specs that sit there doing nothing, hum?

  16. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by glowpipe View Post
    The fact that you complain about retails class identity when you play a mage in classic is hilarious.

    https://classic.warcraftlogs.com/rep...done&source=16

    Sorry. i mean a lvl 60 frostbolt
    that's a really dumb way of looking at vanilla classes. for example a mage cannot AOE farm by just frost bolting. there's also pvp, where if you get frost locked you still have fire and arcane spells you can cast.

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by kaminaris View Post
    Thats wrong, classes have buffs in BfA, legion didn't have them, memory malfunctioning?
    That's wrong indeed. They even brought mage and priest buffs in BFA. And add War-scrolls just in case.

  18. #98
    Pit Lord Beet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kaminaris View Post
    Thats wrong, classes have buffs in BfA, legion didn't have them, memory malfunctioning?
    Oh yeah sorry I forgot they brought back two buffs right? Thats 100% a start, I wish theyd just bring them all back though honestly. I think many people want a medium between classic and BFA, where class buffs would be a great way to get there again. Just don't give the same buff to other classes.

  19. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by Shakana View Post
    I'm not saying to go back to vanilla/classic, obviously the world evolves, i don't want to have a wand and auto attack things and level weapons on RETAIL. I'm saying the separated specs feels clunky and forgotten when it comes to identify a class, because in a expansion or some point of a patch that same class will almost forget about one spec that is almost unplayable. Going to give this example:

    - Frost DKs were a mess in the beginning of BFA, with GCD's and bad blizzard balance, no one wanted to be frost but unholy.
    - Feral druid fiasco, Feral druid was never a good option too

    If you're a class that can't even reroll to a spec you like, why would you want specs that sit there doing nothing, hum?
    The specs fluctuate in viability just like they would if they were made to be watered down hybrid classes, even if there were only 5 specs in this game at least one of them would be bad and not played. That being sad the specs and classes are pretty much as close to each other in viability as they've ever been all things considered and there's really nothing unplayable right now.

  20. #100
    Pit Lord Beet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glowpipe View Post
    The fact that you complain about retails class identity when you play a mage in classic is hilarious.

    https://classic.warcraftlogs.com/rep...done&source=16

    Sorry. i mean a lvl 60 frostbolt
    And how many abilities does the mage have in vanilla? Just because optimal DPS is frostbolt doesn't mean theres a lack of class identity. That was part of the issue with Blizzard and retail too. They pruned all the cool abilities that werent used in DPS rotations because reasons. Some of us liked it when mages had the ability to decurse or hunters could control their pet with EotB

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