frost, warrior, holy priest and combat need to be nerfed

[potis]

I hAve tO ReStaRt thE saMe diScUsSion ThAt gOt Us rEtAil

Just play the game for fucks sake and don't get so hard on the cutting edge competitive shit that you seem to be imagining. You can be anyone and beat everyone no matter the comp, just be better. But more importantly, just try to have fun. Dying to a warrior should not stop you from having fun.

No. /10char.

Nothing you said makes sense, there is nothing about retail in my post, thats how Vanilla, and Classic works, Warriors dominate, rest heal the warriors.

[barrsftw]

Taxing hybrid in WoW makes no sense to me, especially the way it was done in Classic where the choice wasn't "you can either DPS or heal, but you'll be worse at it than pures", it was "all the classes with healing spells have to heal because their DPS specs completely suck so they might as well never bother",

Shadow, Elemental, Enhancement, and Feral don't suck AT ALL. Ferals are arguably the best spec for WSG. Both Shaman dps specs are great in PvP, above average leveler/farmers, and can fill all roles in dungeons in a pinch. Shadow priest are top tier 1v1, BGs, and one of the better solo levelers. That said, I'll assume you, and most others, are only factoring in endgame boss damage parses for calculating whether a spec "sucks" or not. Definitely a very "retail" way of thinking that doesn't really apply to classic.

Without the hybrid tax, these classes and specs become god tier at 95% of the game (Leveling, Farming, PvP, Dungeons)

[bullseyed]

And still, every raid will want multiple hunters for rage dispells, multiple paladins for blessings.

Arguable the only reason why hunters are doing well on WCL is because you have to bring a few and their gear isn't that usable by other classes, so they can get geared super quickly.

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It's almost like we didn't know already for 13 years that Warriors, Rogues and Mages were by far the strongest dps classes in Vanilla. What did you expect, something different? It's going to get worse, I can assure you.

Well that and typically in RPGs the pure physical, pure magical and stealth guys are the best. In many games either magic is OP or physical is OP, which means most people usually go warrior or mage in RPGs, especially in the time when WoW was released.

[Jastall]

Shadow, Elemental, Enhancement, and Feral don't suck AT ALL. Ferals are arguably the best spec for WSG. Both Shaman dps specs are great in PvP, above average leveler/farmers, and can fill all roles in dungeons in a pinch. Shadow priest are top tier 1v1, BGs, and one of the better solo levelers. That said, I'll assume you, and most others, are only factoring in endgame boss damage parses for calculating whether a spec "sucks" or not. Definitely a very "retail" way of thinking that doesn't really apply to classic.

Without the hybrid tax, these classes and specs become god tier at 95% of the game (Leveling, Farming, PvP, Dungeons)

I like that you need to cite specific activities where these specs are good (1v1 duels, really?) as if that's some sort of accomplishment. If a spec is available in a properly balanced game, I'd expect it to be good (not top tier, but at least good enough) at all of the game's activities, not just select ones. Live doesn't quite achieve that either before you say anything, but it's a damn sight better than arguing SPriests are good because they win duels or that Enhancement is good because it can proc Windfury and destroy one person 5% of the time. Plus nobody's better at leveling and dungeon AoEing than a Mage... which is also a top tier raid DPS and battleground class that hard counters several classes in duels as well. But sure, explain to me why Feral or Ret being able to do decent DPS would shatter the game's oh so tight balance.

So kindly keep the condescending "lul retail mentality" nonsense for yourself. I had those same standards back when I played Classic and one of the reasons I picked Warrior, after informing myself, is because I ended up knowing I could fill two roles in all the game's content without being hamstrung by some idiotic concept that you should be punished for having a healing spec.

[StayTuned]

No. /10char.

Nothing you said makes sense, there is nothing about retail in my post, thats how Vanilla, and Classic works, Warriors dominate, rest heal the warriors.

And?
/chars

[Noxina]

I like how you're running under the assumption that launch talents/tuning would make a difference.
Don't pirate server kids do the exact same on "pRoGreSSivE sErveRs?"

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Well yes. That's what the patches did, balance changes, talent rewamps etc.

[Snackpack]

"That's just the way it is. Some things will never change" - Bruce Hornsby

[barrsftw]

I like that you need to cite specific activities where these specs are good (1v1 duels, really?) as if that's some sort of accomplishment. If a spec is available in a properly balanced game, I'd expect it to be good (not top tier, but at least good enough) at all of the game's activities, not just select ones. Live doesn't quite achieve that either before you say anything, but it's a damn sight better than arguing SPriests are good because they win duels or that Enhancement is good because it can proc Windfury and destroy one person 5% of the time. Plus nobody's better at leveling and dungeon AoEing than a Mage... which is also a top tier raid DPS and battleground class that hard counters several classes in duels as well. But sure, explain to me why Feral or Ret being able to do decent DPS would shatter the game's oh so tight balance.

So kindly keep the condescending "lul retail mentality" nonsense for yourself. I had those same standards back when I played Classic and one of the reasons I picked Warrior, after informing myself, is because I ended up knowing I could fill two roles in all the game's content without being hamstrung by some idiotic concept that you should be punished for having a healing spec.

I was going reply to the original point, which you left out most of in my previous post, but I can tell you're so far removed what what Classic is supposed to be and is. Yet you're still trying your hardest to ruin it for other people because you don't enjoy it. Lol.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

Sort of. I would consider them hybrids in the same way that Priests are. I think the primary difference would be that typically a Warrior or a Priest primarily specs into one of their two roles and they can't readily jump between those as effectively as the other hybrids.

Warrior has DPS-DPS-Tank ... Shaman has HEALING-DPS-DPS ... I don't see how that is much different. It just so happens that Warrior is the only "proper" tank and they also have 2 high tier DPS specs AND are good in pvp... meanwhile... some of the other hybrids are taxes more heavily than others...

[Jastall]

I was going reply to the original point, which you left out most of in my previous post, but I can tell you're so far removed what what Classic is supposed to be and is. Yet you're still trying your hardest to ruin it for other people because you don't enjoy it. Lol.

Trying to ruin it? Please quote the part where I say these things should be changed. I'm fine with Classic being like that because that's how vanilla was and Classic should be a 1:1 recreation, within what is reasonable at any rate in regards to bugs, latency and the like. I'm arguing that it was terrible game design and one of the reasons that, if I ever reach 60 in Classic, I'm supremely unlikely to partake in endgame activities because while the classes are somewhat designed around leveling (and even then some have boring, craptastic toolkits there, hi Warriors), everything falls apart at 60.

Believe it or not, some people like to discuss game design without changing everything. And believe or not, not everyone who isn't a Classic #1 fan is out for your game's blood.

[phattsao]

Why are you playing on Classic servers if you don't want to play Classic?

Cause I want Vanilla bro. This is like the store brand of cola vs Coke. Close, but they didn't quite get it right.

[rohoz]

Well yes. That's what the patches did, balance changes, talent rewamps etc.

and didn't they clear mc in the first couple days, as well?

[Kithelle]

it's fine as it is. This whole "viable" thing needs to be stopped. The truth is that everything is viable, people just think that they are hardcore by going with the most popular specs.

Everything is viable? You obviously haven't played vanilla.

[Noxina]

and didn't they clear mc in the first couple days, as well?

Who? I don't care about what they did on Private servers, if that's the point you're trying to make? AND private servers had a tendency to tune things harder than what it was in Vanilla, because it's stupid easy. And I'm fairly certain pretty much every pserver I've ever tried, was on the 1.12 client aswell.

MC was released before all those rewamped talent trees and balance changes, that's why it's easy af. That's why pservers tuned up the numbers. It was never a question if MC would be hard in Classic, heck, I think few (who actually had a clue) was surprised it got cleared as fast as it did.

MC is tuned for earlier stages of the game, in a 15 year old game. Not for what we have now.

THUS every spec in the game is viable for raiding, because we wont see any real DPS checks in a long time.

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Everything is viable? You obviously haven't played vanilla.

Have you? You have noticed how Ragnaros just bent over for us the first week? Before people even had any real gear. So yea, any spec is viable just not competative.

[rohoz]

Who? I don't care about what they did on Private servers, if that's the point you're trying to make? AND private servers had a tendency to tune things harder than what it was in Vanilla, because it's stupid easy. And I'm fairly certain pretty much every pserver I've ever tried, was on the 1.12 client aswell.

MC was released before all those rewamped talent trees and balance changes, that's why it's easy af. That's why pservers tuned up the numbers. It was never a question if MC would be hard in Classic, heck, I think few (who actually had a clue) was surprised it got cleared as fast as it did.

MC is tuned for earlier stages of the game, in a 15 year old game. Not for what we have now.

THUS every spec in the game is viable for raiding, because we wont see any real DPS checks in a long time.

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Have you? You have noticed how Ragnaros just bent over for us the first week? Before people even had any real gear. So yea, any spec is viable just not competative.

they did it with mostly mages and rogues lol, not "every spec"

and what happened on pirate servers somewhat matters because rag wouldve still been a cakewalk

[Kithelle]

Who? I don't care about what they did on Private servers, if that's the point you're trying to make? AND private servers had a tendency to tune things harder than what it was in Vanilla, because it's stupid easy. And I'm fairly certain pretty much every pserver I've ever tried, was on the 1.12 client aswell.

MC was released before all those rewamped talent trees and balance changes, that's why it's easy af. That's why pservers tuned up the numbers. It was never a question if MC would be hard in Classic, heck, I think few (who actually had a clue) was surprised it got cleared as fast as it did.

MC is tuned for earlier stages of the game, in a 15 year old game. Not for what we have now.

THUS every spec in the game is viable for raiding, because we wont see any real DPS checks in a long time.

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Have you? You have noticed how Ragnaros just bent over for us the first week? Before people even had any real gear. So yea, any spec is viable just not competative.

How many Ret Pallies, Arms Warriors, and Enhancement Shaman you think they used? Really?

[Daffan]

No. Idio... I mean Purists who thought they knew (or remembered) what Vanilla was wanted this. And this is how it should stay forever. Let them play their failure and I can enjoy peaceful refined retail.

Or be me and just read forums laff.

[Aphrel]

Trust me as someone who played in a competitive server first multiple boss kill guild, as the gear arc rises, you will see other classes shine, especially Hunter. Hunters in Tiers 2 & 3 can and will easily be top dps.

while this is 100% contrary to what ive heard about hunters im looking forward to seeing you on the logs if true.

[Hyral]

Cause I want Vanilla bro. This is like the store brand of cola vs Coke. Close, but they didn't quite get it right.

And what you are asking in your post is Pepsi.

[kamuimac]

while this is 100% contrary to what ive heard about hunters im looking forward to seeing you on the logs if true.

the only reason this happened is because he played with .... back then .

and hunters have extremly low skillcap to pull average numbers

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And what you are asking in your post is Pepsi.

i so like this answer