View Poll Results: Lockboxes - should rogues be allowed to roll "need" in a PUG dungeon group?

Voters
585. This poll is closed
  • Yes

    132 22.56%
  • No

    453 77.44%
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  1. #801
    The Lightbringer gutnbrg's Avatar
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    im gonna start master looting bosses bc im a warrior, if u cant tank it, u cant get the loot.....sorry

  2. #802
    For me its not about the chest etc. Anything of rarity/value should be rolled for. So if the locked chest has BoEs/Recipes etc its a group roll, the vendor trash and gold/food etc stuff is whatever (rogue/BS/Engi etc). As others have said, its a group effort to get to the chest, if the rogue feels that entitled for spending a few minutes per level opening a few lockboxes which they should be anyway because of the value of doing it whilst leveling, then I wouldnt want them in my group, as most likely they will also be the person who needs a minor upgrade over a big upgrade to someone else. If you cant share a chest simply because its locked in a group area, says more about your attitude to loot/gold than being a good group member. Ill keep good rogues on friends list (if I havent leveled one yet) and ask if the can open lockboxes for me anyway and generally with a decent tip each, so really being greedy for that locked chest in a dungeon for most likely a green will possibly cost you a few gold long term.

    Same reason when I did UBRS etc back in vanilla we would roll for hide of the beast and other rare or valuable items. Normal skins/ores etc are pretty worthless so arent comparable as should just be thought of as a perk of the profession much like enchanting mats and expecting buffs which cost reagents. If its a recipe or crafting item you need, then you discuss with the group about needing it and if the group is ok fine.

  3. #803
    Honest question: Why should everyone greed roll lockboxes? If everyone rolls need, then it can't be ninjad right?

  4. #804
    Legendary! Lord Pebbleton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monteverdi View Post
    Not what I'm saying. I'm saying that saying Rogue gets what they want, but blacksmith with key shares with the group, doesn't make a lot of sense.
    I see where the confusion comes from. I didn't mean to say that, if someone has a key, then everyone rolls; what I mean is that everyone able to open it should roll. So just the blacksmith and the rogue in this case.

  5. #805
    Everyone rolls need on it, rogue charges 2-3g to open it. This is the most fair approach.

  6. #806
    Quote Originally Posted by tacoloco View Post
    SMH. Your position is a textbook example of entitlement.
    For differing viewpoints, yes. "Entitlement" is subjective.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Katchii View Post
    It fits the literal definition of the word.... but Ok. Agree to disagree then on them constituting group loot. I think you’re in the minority here though.
    It fits the literal definition of the word, but so does my example. You are just being close minded in only recognizing entitlement when it suits your argument. But literally anything is entitlement if you feel entitled to it. Rich and poor people are both benefiting from entitlement to the other party. Being in the minority is irrelevant.

  7. #807
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnusthegreat View Post
    For differing viewpoints, yes. "Entitlement" is subjective.
    Wrong. The idea that locked boxes belong to a rogue is entitlement. I hope you get kicked out of every dungeon run and blacklisted.
    I'm a crazy taco.

  8. #808
    I consider "need" to be "I am going to equip this or use this in some meaningful way" and greed "I am going to sell/vendor this".

    So a blacksmith needing on a blacksmith plan is fine. A rogue needing on a lockbox? No. The winner can always pay a rogues/smith to open it later, so the rogue has no special privilege to it. It is also a decent vendor price so even if they do not open it, it's worth something to everyone. The rogue would only be needing to vendor what is inside of it.
    “You can never get a cup of tea large enough or a book long enough to suit me.”
    – C.S. Lewis

  9. #809
    Quote Originally Posted by tacoloco View Post
    Wrong. The idea that locked boxes belong to a rogue is entitlement. I hope you get kicked out of every dungeon run and blacklisted.
    The idea that someone with no access to something has a right to take it from someone who does is entitlement.

    Fun thought exercise we're having here! I remember doing a similar one in middle school civics class!

  10. #810
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnusthegreat View Post
    For differing viewpoints, yes. "Entitlement" is subjective.

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    It fits the literal definition of the word, but so does my example. You are just being close minded in only recognizing entitlement when it suits your argument. But literally anything is entitlement if you feel entitled to it. Rich and poor people are both benefiting from entitlement to the other party. Being in the minority is irrelevant.
    1) I’ve never argued any one person is entitled to anything only that it should be treated as group loot. If you want to call that entitlement, fine.
    2) Being in the minority may be irrelevant to the argument, but it does mean your stance is likely not well liked and that the majority sees this kind of behavior and attitude as being an asshole. Obviously doesn’t prevent you from having it, though.

  11. #811
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnusthegreat View Post
    And that's fine, everyone is different.

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    My stance is that locked chests are for people that can unlock chests, and no one else, regardless of circumstance.

    You can't just assume things that you want to be true to be true. What makes you an asshole is your entitlement.

    Seriously.
    This is where I think you lose your argument. When you join a group of 5, or 10, or 40 people... then you relinquish your individuality to become part of that group.

    Really it is no different than you going into a dungeon and rolling need on every single thing that drops because you can, and because you can vendor it if nothing else. While your lockpicking skill is your skill... the chest in the dungeon is the group's chest. Locked or not. If the rogue cannot pick, then too bad so sad... bring a better rogue next time.

    Again, do what you want... but if I ever do run into someone who has your attitude, I'll quietly find a replacement then drop you from group. DPS is a dime a dozen to put up with someone who thinks getting a chest or two's worth of value is better than making friends with 4 other people.

  12. #812
    It would make sense for only rogues to roll on it if that rogue was the only rogue on the server and nobody else could open them. Otherwise this is a stupid question

  13. #813
    Had this same issue in a run last night, rogue opened locked chest and took what was inside, stated he was only one that could open it so that's that. Booted him from group, got another rogue while the first rogue rage-whispered me. That was that. I'll do that in every case that a rogue thinks he can just have that chest and no rolling.
    ** When you realize the person you're talking to is so clueless that they think you're the idiot **

  14. #814
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grogo View Post
    Had this same issue in a run last night, rogue opened locked chest and took what was inside, stated he was only one that could open it so that's that. Booted him from group, got another rogue while the first rogue rage-whispered me. That was that. I'll do that in every case that a rogue thinks he can just have that chest and no rolling.
    Good, I do hope more people do this. Thank God I have not had to deal with a greedy rogue yet, but I would do the same thing.

  15. #815
    Quote Originally Posted by Katchii View Post
    1) I’ve never argued any one person is entitled to anything only that it should be treated as group loot. If you want to call that entitlement, fine.
    2) Being in the minority may be irrelevant to the argument, but it does mean your stance is likely not well liked and that the majority sees this kind of behavior and attitude as being an asshole. Obviously doesn’t prevent you from having it, though.
    1) But my argument saying that it is NOT group loot inherently means if you can't open a chest and expect it to be rolled, you are entitled. I honestly don't remember what you've said over the last week, but the point is that saying rogues with my opinion are entitled really doesn't mean much because my argument says the same about those that disagree. Entitled is not an effective word to use.
    2) Correct. It also doesn't prevent the minority from seeing the majority as assholes. Again, not really effective in arguments to just call those that disagree with you assholes.

  16. #816
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnusthegreat View Post
    1) But my argument saying that it is NOT group loot inherently means if you can't open a chest and expect it to be rolled, you are entitled. I honestly don't remember what you've said over the last week, but the point is that saying rogues with my opinion are entitled really doesn't mean much because my argument says the same about those that disagree. Entitled is not an effective word to use.
    2) Correct. It also doesn't prevent the minority from seeing the majority as assholes. Again, not really effective in arguments to just call those that disagree with you assholes.
    It's widely accepted that rogues that keep everything for themselves from a chests just because they opened it are selfish assholes. It's not entitled for a group to expect a rogue to roll on loot found in a chest. It IS entitled for a rogue to think he has all rights to a chest's contents simply because he opened it. Try looking up the definition of entitled.

  17. #817
    Quote Originally Posted by Maudib View Post
    This is where I think you lose your argument. When you join a group of 5, or 10, or 40 people... then you relinquish your individuality to become part of that group.

    Really it is no different than you going into a dungeon and rolling need on every single thing that drops because you can, and because you can vendor it if nothing else. While your lockpicking skill is your skill... the chest in the dungeon is the group's chest. Locked or not. If the rogue cannot pick, then too bad so sad... bring a better rogue next time.

    Again, do what you want... but if I ever do run into someone who has your attitude, I'll quietly find a replacement then drop you from group. DPS is a dime a dozen to put up with someone who thinks getting a chest or two's worth of value is better than making friends with 4 other people.
    I disagree with this stance.

    It is a Blizzard approved stance that every player can roll need on anything. I disagree with that mindset, as well as your point in this paragraph.

    And you can do that. I can also kick you if you put up a stink about it. As you said, principles are important. Ours our opposed. If you can't handle being around people that are different, then don't.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    It's widely accepted that rogues that keep everything for themselves from a chests just because they opened it are selfish assholes. It's not entitled for a group to expect a rogue to roll on loot found in a chest. It IS entitled for a rogue to think he has all rights to a chest's contents simply because he opened it. Try looking up the definition of entitled.
    It's not widely accepted, and you don't know what entitlement means. I literally just explained it.

  18. #818
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnusthegreat View Post
    I disagree with this stance.

    It is a Blizzard approved stance that every player can roll need on anything. I disagree with that mindset, as well as your point in this paragraph.

    And you can do that. I can also kick you if you put up a stink about it. As you said, principles are important. Ours our opposed. If you can't handle being around people that are different, then don't.

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    It's not widely accepted, and you don't know what entitlement means. I literally just explained it.
    Expecting a rogue to let the group roll on loot in a locked chest that the GROUP HELPED THE ROGUE GET TO is not entitlement. If you think it is, then you're absolutely insane. As I said, the rogue thinking he can take everything from a chest he opened is literally textbook entitlement.

    People like you are why the vanilla and classic communities get a bad name.

  19. #819
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnusthegreat View Post
    1) But my argument saying that it is NOT group loot inherently means if you can't open a chest and expect it to be rolled, you are entitled. I honestly don't remember what you've said over the last week, but the point is that saying rogues with my opinion are entitled really doesn't mean much because my argument says the same about those that disagree. Entitled is not an effective word to use.
    2) Correct. It also doesn't prevent the minority from seeing the majority as assholes. Again, not really effective in arguments to just call those that disagree with you assholes.
    We're both entitled I guess. IMO I just feel your stance is one of deeper (not sure if it's the right word, but I'm sure you get my point) entitlement because my stance is that everyone gets a chance at the loot, not that any one person is more deserving of it over anyone else.

    I'm not using the word asshole because I disagree, I'm using the word asshole because the stance you're using is an extremely self centered and selfish one. I don't think it's much of a stretch to say that having and exercising such a self centered and selfish attitude means most people would call that being an asshole. I'm also not trying to use it as an argument, just saying that this is an asshole-ish thing to do and because of that you'll be judged in groups.

    There's no right or wrong here, but there is acceptable and not acceptable, as far as the community is concerned. If the group your in, or the community as a whole says that your stance is "unacceptable" and you exercise it anyway you aren't likely to get a good reputation and could have trouble finding a guild, being invited to PUGS etc... because of the negative reputation. Doesn't change your right to have this stance and opinion.

  20. #820
    Herald of the Titans Racthoh's Avatar
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    if the logic behind stealing lockboxes is because they can open them, well so can i just ask a random rogue in trade and tip him

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