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  1. #181
    Merely a Setback FelPlague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MiiiMiii View Post
    As I said, the TBC model. Some raids are easy. Some are hard. It's OK that your guild can't beat Sunwell. Your guild is still happy to progress in Black Temple. It's fine. Not all guilds have to be doing the exact same latest and greatest raid.
    people cry now about not enough content coming out, imagine being told "yeah this content your paying for, you cant have it, cause your not good enough to even see it"

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by swatsonqt View Post
    Remove Mythic. Nobody needs that mode and it's too time consuming. I mean...that's of course also a problem of guilds an community perception but if i need to keep my char maxed out for 3 Month with at least 3 evenings of raiding a week..well yeah that mode is going to die anyways
    i do miss the days of being able to complete a raid before the next raid comes out without having to be like super ultra pro...
    i have gotten so tired of mythic raiding i quit it recently, because i the mythic fights have become so insane, like compare lich king to azshara and its mental.
    i miss the days of finishing a raid before the next one came out without being in the top like 200.
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    My ideas are objectively good

  2. #182
    Quote Originally Posted by darkthunder View Post
    My suggestion:

    Remove the "LFR" tier altogether, as well as the "wing" style. When a new raid is released, all bosses will be accessible immediately.

    Normal (10-player raids, can be queued or premade)
    Heroic (10-player raids, can be queued or premade)
    Mythic (20-player raids, can't be queued, only premade)

    Normal and Heroic will enforce a 2 tank/2 healer/6 damage setup when queued. Full Premade, optional setup.

    Loot:
    Normal: Equivalent of Mythic 0 (end boss will have higher itemlevel drops)
    Heroic: Equivalent of Mythic 5 (end boss will have higher itemlevel drops)
    Mythic: Equivalent of Mythic 10 (end boss will have higher itemlevel drops)

    The itemlevel will scale upwards over the course of the expansion, similar to the way Seasons have been in BFA. Reducing the number of difficulties, will also significantly reduce the inflation of gear itemlevels over the course of the expansion.
    Problems with your post:

    Queued Heroic raids. LOL
    Non flex normal/heroic. LOL
    Normal raid being as easy as m0. LOL
    Heroic raid being as easy as m5. LOL
    Mythic raid being as easy as m10. LOL
    Trying to balance raids that force a certain 10 man composition. LOL

    Only good thing about your post:

    Remove LFR

  3. #183
    Dont fix whats not broken, you cant possibly expect majority of ppl to adapt to minority just bcs you are part of it...

    simple solution: you lack motivation raiding bcs there are four difficulties? dont raid, nobody forces you to, but theres just NO reason to take from ppl something they enjoy bcs you dont enjoy it...

  4. #184
    Quote Originally Posted by MiiiMiii View Post
    As we all know we have 4 difficulties of raids. LFR, Normal, Heroic and Mythic.

    In something like Classic, there is only 1 difficulty. 1 difficulty makes beating a boss, all have the exact same experience, all have the exact same loot dropping, all have the exact same feel of guild progression once it dies.

    In Retail... You do a raid in LFR. Then it's not really a challenge, nor do you get any good gear from it. OK. Then you maybe find a guild and they do Normal. Still. The gear is just, meh, compared to M+. You already beat all the bosses on LFR, so it's not that cool to see a boss die. Repeat at Heroic difficulty. 3rd time I kill him? Eh ok. Same loot, just scaled to better ilvl? Eh ok. Mythic raiding. We already beat the same bosses on 3 different difficulties with the only benefit being scaled up gear. Why would we bother pushing into mythic? ...

    Why not go back to the TBC model. Some raids (early raids) are easy. Some raids are small 10 man raids. Some raids are 25 man raids. Some 25 man raids are easy. Some 25 man raids are hard. Everyone has something to do.

    I think the "Oh shit I beat Illidan!" feeling is completely gone in Retail due to the 4 difficulties. When you tell your friend you killed a boss, his first response should be "damn thats so cool!", not "what difficulty m8?"...

    This multiple difficulty tactic from Blizzard might work on paper, more % of the playerbase see all raids than ever, probably... but at what cost? At the cost of anyone caring about getting gear enough to see a cool raid boss.

    "Seeing that raid", "beating that boss" and "getting that loot" used to be the main motivator to rise up to be more hardcore. Not just "if u wanna beat same boss for the same gear scaled, go ahead m8. Maybe we throw in some mount for it too lol"...

    Raids don't even have to be hard for people to enjoy them. Just look at classic and MC. It's a million times more fun to kill Ragnaros in Classic compared to killing Azhara Mythic in Retail, even if she is much MUCH harder. Harder does not mean better for the game.
    I don't know anyone who does lfr normal heroic and mythic boss.
    Stick to the difficulty you can manage. One difficulty, or two max.

    If you don't like challenge and think that downing a boss no mater the difficulty is raiding, stick with lfr or normal. No need to go further.

  5. #185
    Quote Originally Posted by MiiiMiii View Post
    As we all know we have 4 difficulties of raids. LFR, Normal, Heroic and Mythic.

    In something like Classic, there is only 1 difficulty. 1 difficulty makes beating a boss, all have the exact same experience, all have the exact same loot dropping, all have the exact same feel of guild progression once it dies.

    In Retail... You do a raid in LFR. Then it's not really a challenge, nor do you get any good gear from it. OK. Then you maybe find a guild and they do Normal. Still. The gear is just, meh, compared to M+. You already beat all the bosses on LFR, so it's not that cool to see a boss die. Repeat at Heroic difficulty. 3rd time I kill him? Eh ok. Same loot, just scaled to better ilvl? Eh ok. Mythic raiding. We already beat the same bosses on 3 different difficulties with the only benefit being scaled up gear. Why would we bother pushing into mythic? ...

    Why not go back to the TBC model. Some raids (early raids) are easy. Some raids are small 10 man raids. Some raids are 25 man raids. Some 25 man raids are easy. Some 25 man raids are hard. Everyone has something to do.

    I think the "Oh shit I beat Illidan!" feeling is completely gone in Retail due to the 4 difficulties. When you tell your friend you killed a boss, his first response should be "damn thats so cool!", not "what difficulty m8?"...

    This multiple difficulty tactic from Blizzard might work on paper, more % of the playerbase see all raids than ever, probably... but at what cost? At the cost of anyone caring about getting gear enough to see a cool raid boss.

    "Seeing that raid", "beating that boss" and "getting that loot" used to be the main motivator to rise up to be more hardcore. Not just "if u wanna beat same boss for the same gear scaled, go ahead m8. Maybe we throw in some mount for it too lol"...

    Raids don't even have to be hard for people to enjoy them. Just look at classic and MC. It's a million times more fun to kill Ragnaros in Classic compared to killing Azhara Mythic in Retail, even if she is much MUCH harder. Harder does not mean better for the game.
    Hey matey.

    Can you explain why you compare normal raids to m+? Especially higher keys are in no way comparable to the normal version of raids.

    And you dislike the item level scaling, but that's exactly the same in m+, where you don't seem to have a problem with? Can you reply back to me and answer this?
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  6. #186
    Does multiple difficulties lessen the epic feeling? Most definetly.
    But a fight being really hard also increases the satisfaction you get from downing it.
    If my choice is between a one difficulty heroic tuned raid or the current model where i raid only mythic with the rediculus mandatory heroic clears week 1 id pick the current one.

    Id love to have both but that would mean a very large % of players would never set foot in raids, wich might mean less resources would get spent at them.

    But then again, vanilla and tbc both had only one difficulty and didnt tune down their raids for the majority. And they were both videly successful games.
    None of us really changes over time. We only become more fully what we are.

  7. #187
    The Insane Aeula's Avatar
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    How would you explain to investors that you need to put the majority of your patch resources into something 1% of the game’s population does?

    LFR is the reason we don’t get raids like Molten Core. A big, empty area with a bunch of random mobs thrown in and bosses with simplistic tactics. Without LFR raiding would be side content that Blizzard spends no more than a week on. And eventually they’d tune it down to get more people playing it.

  8. #188
    Quote Originally Posted by Gref View Post
    I hate this argument. Not everybody is supposed to finish every damn game they buy. It is there, if you try hard enough you can beat the game.
    Dark Souls, if you suck forget about getting past the first boss already, if you are dedicated enough you can clear everything.

    Did you guys use to beat every game you owned back in your childhood? Nobody can convince me that they beat super mario on the first try passing 8-4.
    Nobody can convince me that they finished solomon's key in their first try. Imfuckingpossible.

    I didn't cry and bitch about it when I couldn't even set foot in to the nax. I knew what I could do and what my guild could do.
    Naxx was there, with effort, I could get into it. I made different choices. This time tho, I am willing to go %100 to clear all classic.

    Retail people should suck it up. 1 difficulty. You put effort, well done you cleared the game. No effort, sorry than you stay at stage 1.
    There can be a story mode though if you want to see what happens, that I can meh and accept.
    that argument would work if wow was a single-player game with no subscription, but it isnt
    if im not gonna kill a 1st boss in dark souls im sure as fuck not buying dark souls 2 because its a waste of money

  9. #189
    @Finear so what ever game you buy, you expect it to finish %100. roger, cant argue with that.
    for me, game is a challenge, if you are good and commit enough you clear, if not it stays there. be it in any payment method.

  10. #190
    Quote Originally Posted by Aphrel View Post
    Does multiple difficulties lessen the epic feeling? Most definetly.
    But a fight being really hard also increases the satisfaction you get from downing it.
    If my choice is between a one difficulty heroic tuned raid or the current model where i raid only mythic with the rediculus mandatory heroic clears week 1 id pick the current one.

    Id love to have both but that would mean a very large % of players would never set foot in raids, wich might mean less resources would get spent at them.

    But then again, vanilla and tbc both had only one difficulty and didnt tune down their raids for the majority. And they were both videly successful games.
    I agree with you 100%, if going back to 1 raid difficulty means that they will tone down the difficulty massively by basically removing mythic, then i really hope they dont, it would be a fucking snorefest every single tier, but i guess this is what "1 raid difficulty ftw" guys want since mythic is too much for their fingers.

  11. #191
    Quote Originally Posted by Gref View Post
    @Finear so what ever game you buy, you expect it to finish %100. roger, cant argue with that.
    for me, game is a challenge, if you are good and commit enough you clear, if not it stays there. be it in any payment method.
    yeah i do, if i didn't finish the main campaign it was a bad investment

    in case if dark souls im not buying any game from that developer probably ever again unless they drastically change how their games play, which they won't because it works and produces objectively good products

  12. #192
    Quote Originally Posted by Gref View Post
    Retail people should suck it up. 1 difficulty. You put effort, well done you cleared the game. No effort, sorry than you stay at stage 1.
    There can be a story mode though if you want to see what happens, that I can meh and accept.
    You realize that if they did that then they would make the game easier? so i can say back to you, no to 1 raid difficulty, suck it up and get on mythic lvl, put the effort lul.

  13. #193
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    This thread is weird, because for most people there are only two difficulties.

    If you start on LFR, you'll cap on normal.

    Normal raiders will progress to heroic

    Those who start on heroic will raid mythic.

    This is the usual trend - mythic calibre players won't be starting on normal, people who pride themselves on their curve achievements (I'm one of those) sure as heck doesn't start on LFR.

    I honestly see exactly 0 problems with the 4 difficulties.

  14. #194
    Quote Originally Posted by Sharper13 View Post
    I honestly see exactly 0 problems with the 4 difficulties.
    They have a problem cause they feel raids arent as epic as before, and content isnt exclusive like it used to be, so they want stuff to be like in the past, what they fail to realize is that the game in its hardest content is actually 1000 times harder than the content from those "epic times" and it feels way better to down a boss, but what would they know, they play for the loot to stand on sw/ogri pretending they achieved something hard, 10/10 of these guys have never seen and will never see a cutting edge.

  15. #195
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyphael View Post
    So what's the point of your argument? You just rendered it meaningless.

    - - - Updated - - -



    I'm not sure how that makes sense, but ok.
    My argument is that people cared about your Kingslayer title because achievements, and the titles that came with them, were brand new. How many titles even existed by the end of Wrath, even casual players these days have more than existed at the time. These days everyone has a title, most people have dozens. No one is going to look at you twice and even notice your title unless you have a gladiator or mythic raid title.

  16. #196
    1 difficulty models dont work because people should be able to see the full raid/story in it no matter what content you do. What we need is just a gentle consolidation:

    LFR - keep it as it is
    Normal - remove
    Heroic - Tune down the difficulty a bit so its somewhere between Normal and Heroic and call it Normal
    Mythic - keep it as it is

    This small change alone will also great help with the power spikes as it cuts 15 ilevels in progression.

  17. #197
    The 4 difficulties system, from a development and cost point of view is simply considerably cheaper than TBC style.

    Why create 4 raids with progressively increased difficulty ( requires increased cost to develop,test,balance,graphics etc.) when you create 1 single raid with 4 difficulties

    For me, TBC was the most active raiding I did and it was great, it felt like progressing from raid to raid and seeing what the story leads to, with current system , I clear a raid in whatever difficulty and thats it, I see no reason to do the same raid again on a different difficulty with a few additional mechanics and more health.

  18. #198
    Quote Originally Posted by Rubim View Post
    It diminish the value.

    Look at Dark Souls and Seikiro for example.
    Yeah, look at Sekiro. People using cheats and speed slow hacks because they want to play the game without sweating their assess off wiping on bosses for hours on end until their muscle memory finally allows them to beat a boss.

  19. #199
    Herald of the Titans MrKnubbles's Avatar
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    New mechanics are introduced in the higher difficulties.
    Check out my game, Craftsmith, on the Google Play Store!

  20. #200
    I would love to go back to the TBC model but unfortunately it does not cater to the casual demographic.

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