The myths about Classic that have fallen apart

[Alphatorg]

@erifwodahs

Rogues are one of the best examples of awesome customization in talents.
I have no idea how it is for other classes.

Dagger PvE
Sword PvE
Ambush + Hemo PvP
Ambush + Hemo for Leveling
Imp Sprint + Preparation PvP
Ghost Build (pick all defensive talents and ghostly strike)
Pickpocket Gold farm build
Backstab PvP
Preparation + Cold Blood PvP

Wow that's amazing. I play a lot of dagger PvE and when I get bored I spec sword PvE and suddenly my generator costs 20 energy more and it's like I'm playing a whole new game. And when I want to really make full use of the talent system's depth I pay 50g, spec something other than combat and half my dmg output.

[Nobleshield]

What's funny is on the forums there is this very rabid group who keep peddling this misinformation that Blizzard stealth nerfed a lot of things since it doesn't "feel" like Vanilla. Despite private servers admitting they made changes (but #NoChanges right?) to keep the difficulty. No proof of course just "it's more than 1.12, they changed things" despite Blizzard stating unequivocally that they have a working 1.12 reference client which they test against.

[Senko]

Never understood this tbf.

Is it because they don't change color?

Or because you are not aware of how big or small dps/heal/survivability upgrade it is?

Classic gear is hand crafted and not generated by an algorithm, gear actually has personality, you can get 2 pieces of gear with same ilvl but the stats on the item are will be wildly different even if you summed the stats together chances are they won't even be close to one another. Retail gear of same ilvl has identical stats on it, with secondary stats being the only variable.

What's funny is on the forums there is this very rabid group who keep peddling this misinformation that Blizzard stealth nerfed a lot of things since it doesn't "feel" like Vanilla. Despite private servers admitting they made changes (but #NoChanges right?) to keep the difficulty. No proof of course just "it's more than 1.12, they changed things" despite Blizzard stating unequivocally that they have a working 1.12 reference client which they test against.

While my attempt to compare this to retail WoW is probably wrong on many levels, we're essentially playing the last patch of an expansion but doing the 1st raid of the expansion, example, doing 7.0 retail raid on 7.3 retail patch is extremely easy compared to doing it on 7.0 patch. This is partially due to ilvl upgrades that happen every major patch but also because of the countless changes that were done to classes and encounters, the latter being very relevant to Classic. If you inquire about how raiding was from the top raiders at the time, bosses were often ninja nerfed after no progress had been made on them for a long time, some of these changes never even made it into patch notes afaik.

[Nobleshield]

While my attempt to compare this to retail WoW is probably wrong on many levels, we're essentially playing the last patch of an expansion but doing the 1st raid of the expansion, example, doing 7.0 retail raid on 7.3 retail patch is extremely easy compared to doing it on 7.0 patch. This is partially due to ilvl upgrades that happen every major patch but also because of the countless changes that were done to classes and encounters, the latter being very relevant to Classic. If you inquire about how raiding was from the top raiders at the time, bosses were often ninja nerfed after no progress had been made on them for a long time, some of these changes never even made it into patch notes afaik.

Yes but private servers also used 1.12, without the phases. And people didn't seem to complain there. Before getting into the fact private servers artificially adjusted the content.

So why is it bad when Blizzard uses the same patch, *without* adjustments? People too used to the "fake" private server version?

[NineSpine]

1. Classic raids are very hard.

Nobody ever said that.

2. Old talent trees are better than the current ones

They are.

3. It’s about the journey, not the race to 60

Everyone I know is still leveling, in both guilds I am in. In those dozens and dozens of players, there isn't even a level 50 yet.

4. Classic incentivizes player interaction, so everyone will suddenly become sociable and make friends

I've made lots of friends and interact with people far more often than retail.

5. Getting into a dungeon group won't be a problem because there's no ilvl, r.io, achievements and armory.

I've had no problems finding groups.

6. Class quests, the holy grail of class fantasy

I'm enjoying my class quests.

7. Classic is a great game for casuals, much better than modern WoW

I'm very casual and I find it much easier to be involved in than BFA.

It's almost like you are just watching streamers and paying no attention to the experience actual players are having.

[Molis]

Every single time there was a thread over the past years crying for Classic WoW, I'd always make most of these points and told I was wrong.

During the first week, the classic fanboys kept saying "SEE LOOK, THE WORLDS ARE STILL FULL AND THERE'S A HUGE QUEUE" and now that they hype has already died after 2 weeks, the servers are emptying out. WoW classic will be down to a few dedicated players in 3 months, and mostly dead in 6 months.

Except almost every server is still full. So your point is a fabrication.

[NineSpine]

"Nobody ever said classic raids were hard!"

Lmao I'm seeing a lot of this. People argued this ALL THE TIME. They would pull out how long it took people to beat the raid from release, and vanilla raids took the longest, so therefor, in their minds, that meant vanilla raids were hard. And yet that wasn't the case at all. There were a multitude of factors as to why vanilla raids weren't beaten for weeks, but it was never because they were hard. Yet most insisted they were. Now that they've been proven wrong, it seems those same people are backpedaling hard and going "NOBODY EVER SAID THAT!" because they'd have egg on their face if they admitted that they argued as such.

Quote someone saying the raids were hard.

[snackfeat]

Eh, mythic raid base ilvl is the same as the next patches normal ilvl. So if you actively do mythic, you can directly start storming heroic version in preparation for mythic.

So no, mythic gear is nowhere near worse than the catchup gear.

That does not change my point, normal mode gear being equal to previous tier mythic gear means each tier is still a complete gear reset which makes the whole gearing system lose all value to me.

If you enjoy BFA then go ahead, but I'm done with that themepark mmo.

[Casperite]

Almost none of what you wrote is correct, especially 2, 3, and 7.

I agreed with most of what he wrote except the no invite to dungeon, I found that to be a bit exaggerated. But other than that, I have seen and experienced everything else he wrote. I still am leveling along in classic but I only play maybe an hour or so every couple days.

And I am in no way demeaning people that enjoy the hell out of classic. If you enjoy the hell out of it, great. Someone else's opinion shouldn't change that.

[Coldfrostzero]

I don't disagree with much of what you have said. I just don't agree that Classic does a great job at it. I remember (mind you, on a private server) seeing an item for the Chromatic Breastplate drop in BRS. Very few people actually finished the quest line, and almost nobody actually used it. The decisions have already been made for how to itemize on 1.12. "That sounds awful" sums up Classic, as well.

Personally, i think there is a lot to love in vanilla. I tried to get the most vanilla out of a 1.12 server, but it was indeed difficult. I took my time leveling to 60. I explored all of the crevices in the world with my guild. I did the coffer run in BRD. I helped set up server wide pvp events. I even raid led for a couple of months, with the philosophy that you could bring any spec. But, the world (or should i say patch 1.12) was so much against me. It killed the feel of vanilla for me.

Nobody wanted to run except the most efficient dungeons. My guild got shamed so much for bringing in off-meta specs, that people stopped playing those specs. Every raid was downed within an hour of release. Speed running the raids became the norm. Battlegrounds were dominated by those who speed ran the raids. You could not do anything PvP wise unless you were one of them.

Whatever part of vanilla you enjoyed, it won't last. There is a reason why most servers never made it to Naxxramas. By then, most interest on the server died. The private server community invented a meme for 'fresh servers' because that is what captured their hearts the most. This idea that some people have that they can take their time, because the content will be there forever, is flawed. Yes, you can still run Sunken Temple in a year. But, you won't actually complete the run as intended, with people of the level range, unless you do it soon.

These are time tested facts. To say that Classic, which modeled itself after private servers, would be any different is unrealistic.

Oh people are already infecting the game with Mage AOE runs. I refuse to do them. I'm a tank so I can be picky about my groups.

If your mentality of the game is the same much the same as mine. I intend to make a guild that way myself. Hopefully, it won't go off the rails like you said. If you're interested in actually playing that way, come play on Thalnos and hit me up haha

[Estravolt]

That does not change my point, normal mode gear being equal to previous tier mythic gear means each tier is still a complete gear reset which makes the whole gearing system lose all value to me.

If you enjoy BFA then go ahead, but I'm done with that themepark mmo.

I haven't played BFA in a good while, just explaining to you how the gear isn't getting reset per tier.

When you spend time raiding Mythic, you will end up with titanforged items that will carry over all the way to the next tiers mythic.

Thus putting time in raiding is rewarded with gear that is not replaced by the next tier.

[Senko]

I haven't played BFA in a good while, just explaining to you how the gear isn't getting reset per tier.

When you spend time raiding Mythic, you will end up with titanforged items that will carry over all the way to the next tiers mythic.

Thus putting time in raiding is rewarded with gear that is not replaced by the next tier.

There's an ilvl cap introduced every patch that is gradually increased with each patch that prevents titanforging from being above a certain ilvl, but stating that a titanforged last tier item can be as good or better than a regular current tier item is still a valid argument, it just isn't always applicable in every case.

[Mehrunes]

"Nobody ever said classic raids were hard!"

Lmao I'm seeing a lot of this. People argued this ALL THE TIME. They would pull out how long it took people to beat the raid from release, and vanilla raids took the longest, so therefor, in their minds, that meant vanilla raids were hard. And yet that wasn't the case at all. There were a multitude of factors as to why vanilla raids weren't beaten for weeks, but it was never because they were hard. Yet most insisted they were. Now that they've been proven wrong, it seems those same people are backpedaling hard and going "NOBODY EVER SAID THAT!" because they'd have egg on their face if they admitted that they argued as such.

True. But this doesn't apply only to that. All the post-release threads criticizing Classic are full of Classic fans backtracking, being defensive in general and using the "what does it matter of Classic has X fault if we're having fun? let us have fun" argument, completely oblivious they were doing the same thing about retail for years while pretending Vanilla was the apotheosis of game design.

[Timotei]

You could just go play another game you like instead of writing an essay about one you don't.

[Monster Hunter]

Gear in retail never feels satisfying because titanforging and random sockets are a thing. If you get a mythic piece of loot, it still feels shit because it didn't roll socket or titanforge. Gear also feels meaningless in retail when the whole gear progression gets reset every tier, and mythic gear from previous tier is worse than catchup gear from the new patch.

But that happens in classic, t1 will be replaced by t2 to be replace by t3

[snackfeat]

But that happens in classic, t1 will be replaced by t2 to be replace by t3

And that's a natual progression. One year from now people will still be running MC because some of the gear from there is relevant through the whole game, and new guilds will still need to progress through the tiers instead of instantly jumping into naxx. In BFA you will never need to run the previous raid once a new tier comes out.

[Monster Hunter]

And that's a natual progression. One year from now people will still be running MC because some of the gear from there is relevant through the whole game, and new guilds will still need to progress through the tiers instead of instantly jumping into naxx. In BFA you will never need to run the previous raid once a new tier comes out.

Well yea raids were replaced by levels.

MC bwl AQ naxx are basically vanilla lfr, normal, heroic and mythic.

And just as a normal what ever raid were up to now bit gets replaced by a heroic bit and then a mythic bit, so to is you blue item just a pice of trash in the next phase.

There was the odd item but actualy, and I should know as I was there people didn't do back raiding by AQ. Bar the tiny odd item no one wanted to go back to clear MC over progressing AQ.

[snackfeat]

Well yea raids were replaced by levels.

MC bwl AQ naxx are basically vanilla lfr, normal, heroic and mythic.

And just as a normal what ever raid were up to now bit gets replaced by a heroic bit and then a mythic bit, so to is you blue item just a pice of trash in the next phase.

There was the odd item but actualy, and I should know as I was there people didn't do back raiding by AQ. Bar the tiny odd item no one wanted to go back to clear MC over progressing AQ.

Both MC and BWL have items that remain bis for certain classes through naxx.

[Tony Slam]

Thats a lot of typing just to say some bullshit lol

[Monster Hunter]

Both MC and BWL have items that remain bis for certain classes through naxx.

And I used a freaking trinket from Nighthold all the way to BFA's release because it was bis.

The odd exception dosnt invalidate the general rule.