The myths about Classic that have fallen apart

[Akka]

But that happens in classic, t1 will be replaced by t2 to be replace by t3

That's progression, MC and BWL won't become obsolete in the context of the whole game.

[schwank05]

Well yea raids were replaced by levels.

MC bwl AQ naxx are basically vanilla lfr, normal, heroic and mythic.

And just as a normal what ever raid were up to now bit gets replaced by a heroic bit and then a mythic bit, so to is you blue item just a pice of trash in the next phase.

There was the odd item but actualy, and I should know as I was there people didn't do back raiding by AQ. Bar the tiny odd item no one wanted to go back to clear MC over progressing AQ.

I never got to max level in Vanilla, but when I did in BC I clearly remember running weekly Kara and Gruuls lair runs all the way through the end of the Xpac for gearing up Alts or just plain having fun, now when a new tier releases no one touches the old raids because the huge gaps in ilvl between tiers.

[snackfeat]

And I used a freaking trinket from Nighthold all the way to BFA's release because it was bis.

The odd exception dosnt invalidate the general rule.

Yet it's rarely ever actual bis, cause it could always have titanforged.

[Monster Hunter]

That's progression, MC and BWL won't become obsolete in the context of the whole game.

Nighthold to tomb to argus was also progression.

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I never got to max level in Vanilla, but when I did in BC I clearly remember running weekly Kara and Gruuls lair runs all the way through the end of the Xpac for gearing up Alts or just plain having fun, now when a new tier releases no one touches the old raids because the huge gaps in ilvl between tiers.

Because no one wants to, people don't turn up to alt runs and people would happily have not turned up to alt runs back then. As I was a one char guy I never turned up to alt raids ever, raiding is a pain in the ass. Not gonna make it worse by dragging indergesrd chars through as well.

[Monster Hunter]

Yet it's rarely ever actual bis, cause it could always have titanforged.

So? Titanforge is rare, not worth farming for unless you hae litteraly nothing left to upgrade. If your goal in this game is to hae full bis then your playing the wrong game both retail and classic.

[Druitz]

Well i was saying it always, even before blizzard gave us info they will make classic that raids in past were extermly easy but players were bad. We had no skill.

Same for pvp. When Hydra was doing SW it was something EPIC. Now 1600 players does it

[jeepguy16]

I know I am wasting my time....but it's Friday and I am stuck at work.... so here we go.

1. Classic raids are very hard.

This has already been extensively discussed in other threads, but nonetheless I wanted to get this out of the way first. This was heavily pushed as one of the selling points of Classic. How many hours you have to spend on farming consumables, how many hours you have to spend on getting this and that...in the end it turned out that people below the level cap in greens are able to clear the raids. The only difficulty in clearing the raid is actually getting to level 60.

As someone who raided in a top 3 guild on my server throughout vanilla, the raids were hard at the time due to the level of knowledge, but they were never hard, particularly not by today's standards. Anyone arguing this never really raided in vanilla.
However, your arguement that someone else cleared it fairly easily, therefor it is easy, is absurd. By the same logic, I could say Mythic Raids in Retail are easy, because people cleared those in just a couple weeks after they were released. Just because you watched someone do it on Twitch doesn't mean you are somehow an expert on Classic Raids.

2. Old talent trees are better than the current ones

This is something that was advertised not only with Classic in mind, but in general in any discussion about the talent system in the current game. These initial weeks of people having access to Classic has shown that not only are those old talents not interesting (the vast majority of them just being +1% dmg on ability), but they also allow no options to pick at all, because resetting them costs a fortune. Depending on the class, about 2-4 talents in the whole tree actually make a difference in your gameplay. The rest is filler that doesn't give any tangible power up.

The arguement had less to do with the impact of the talents / talent trees, and more to do with being able to meaningfully progess your character. Each level, you get a talent. Every two levels, you get new or improved spells. Each level gives you additional power. It's about the RPG element not about how great the talent trees are.
Also, as far as being locked in to those talents. That was the point. The goal, was for those talent choices to define your character. If you went with a hybrid build, you would be mostly stuck with that. If you went protection, you couldn't suddenly change gear and suddenly DPS at the same level as Arms or Fury. You WERE a Protection Warrior.

3. It’s about the journey, not the race to 60

Probably one of the most pushed ideas by all the veteran/elite players/streamers. What ended up happening was of course all those people who were pushing this idea went and grinded dungeons in raids with premade groups. Various excuses were employed, but in general the truth was laid bare for everyone to see. Turns out it’s not about the adventure in the zones, as that’s just boring grindfest of poorly balanced quests. It’s getting to the cap as fast as possible that is important, and people just playing normally are treated as some weirdos wasting their time. And for good reason - questing seems to be one of the worst possible ways to level up in Classic. Instance grinding, layer hopping, or just simple mob grinding in one spot are all faster.

Even in Vanilla, there were people that raced to get to 60. Yep, the same happened in classic. Yet, most people did not. How do I know that? Because when I am in a main city there are very few people that are 50-60. Because when I am leveling (currently in the 30s), even with phasing, the zones are still full of people and I am waiting on spawns. How would that be possible if everyone had raced to 60? I shouldn't be struggling to kill panthers in STV if everyone is already 60.
Also, how do you just grind mobs if you aren't doing quests? How do you get gear to do that? It's damn sure not from drops. Grinding dungeons? Sure some people have been doing that and they did the same in classic. To each their own.
The VAST majority of people, are slowing leveling. I know a ton of people playing classic and NOT ONE is close to 60. Not a single one of them. Are streamers? Sure, but they do this for a living. Your arguement here seems to just be based on streamers and youtubers.

4. Classic incentivizes player interaction, so everyone will suddenly become sociable and make friends

This just isn't the case. We can blame the current times and how people are in general these days, but I'm willing to bet it's been like that years ago too. People don't socialize. Sure, they do group up for quests, because those quests necessitate that. They sometimes say "hi", "bye" or "warrior taunt the mob" but usually nothing beyond that. There is absolutely nothing different about grouping in Classic in comparison to grouping through lfg-type systems in retail wow. People enter a party, they do the task, they leave, and never speak to each other again.

Everyone is more sociable in classic from my experience. Have grouped with people dozens of times for quests. In several cases we stuck together for additional legs of the quest, chatted while waiting on spawns or trying to figure out who still needed what. Have stopped to help people kill things that were not something I was working on, and have had many people do the same.
It is a FAR more social experience.
How exactly did you come to this realization? Obviously not from personal experience. So you watched someone play the game and that is what you are basing it on? Probably those same streamers that are in with the people that rushed to 60? Yeah those people are there own crowd and do not represent the majority of players still leveling and interacting with eachother.

5. Getting into a dungeon group won't be a problem because there's no ilvl, r.io, achievements and armory.

False. Everyone and their mother spends their whole day on twitch now, and they already know the “leveling meta” for dungeons. Different class, or a spec without specific aoe abilities the party leader wants? No invite. And sure, I'm not saying you won't ever find a group for dungeon, and you can always make your own group, but about 80-90% of the groups advertised past level 40 are for specific classes and specific comps only. Yes, you will be able to do a dungeon run for quests while leveling, but it will take a long while looking through the "meta only" group advertisements to find one that just wants you as a player, not as an aoe mage. Other than that, thanks to loot options in Classic, most of the groups usually have a list of "reserved items" that you have to agree to pass on when you join the party. So which is worse, requiring a higher RIO, or asking that you pass on 10 items that you actually need?

I have done several dungeons, and have had no issues.... unless you are talking about those people start are farming the same instance over and over to level. If so, yes they are looking for mages to AOE crap down. They are obviously in the Retail mindset and anyone looking to do the same should understand. As for everyone else, the only requirement has been to make sure you are the right level. And yes, mage sheep / AOE is nice to have but every class brings something to the table. As soon as you get into Strath / Scholo, everyone will want pallies as well because of their undead damage. Every class brings something to the table and I have yet to see any NORMAL group that really gave a crap what class you were.

6. Class quests, the holy grail of class fantasy

Class quests are the epitome of the antiquated game design. Not only are they fully skippable, which makes them horrible for people who are not playing the game on rails following a complete leveling guide for their class, but they often also require a group, and the ability to kill an enemy that is like 10 levels above your current level. For many of those quests you literally have to ask for boost, or you'll not complete them. Them being fully skippable also means that you may end up at a level cap while lacking skills essential to your class. Not only are those quests fully skippable, they also give no mention of the actual final reward in the game itself, so again, you have to follow 3rd party guides to even know what's coming.

Which quest has you kill an enemy 10 levels higher than you and isn't a red quest? Yes, class quests are a challenge and usually requires you to get some assistance. Again, it encourages you to be social. People will help you. I have helped others and they have helped me with quests as well. If you are in a guild, you can normally get some help.
Class quests like the warlock pet quests, give your class a lot of flavor. However since you obviously are all about retail, let me give you this. Legion class quests, were far better. Overall, they were fantastic and I still have it on my to do list to complete them for some of my other classes. DK ones were great. I REALLY REALLY wish they had kept going with that in BFA.

7. Classic is a great game for casuals, much better than modern WoW

It is obviously not. In no way, shape, or form. Leveling is broken, imbalanced and just badly designed. Quests are few and far between, and you have to juggle 3-4 zones at once to even keep doing them. Otherwise you just have to grind mobs. As for the mobs themselves, you often die while fighting 1 mob that is on your level on lower. It's not even about everything taking long, it's about you wasting a lot of time if you don't know the proper route or not paying like 10$ for the proper questing addon that will take you through stuff you need to do. Leveling in Classic while not having any prior knowledge or memorized routes is just a pain. But okay - let's say you are a casual and you reach the level cap in a month or two. What can you do? You can level your professions, maybe farm some gold for an epic mount...content ends. You can always level an alt I guess, but why put yourself through that hell again? There is absolutely nothing to do in Classic if you don't plan to raid in it, which is why I personlally quit on level 42. The grind has become really tredious, and I would put myself through it if there was something waiting at the end - and there's not. I'm not afraid of long grinds, I've reached max overal level in the original Runescape 2 (the one osrs is based on) years back. And I'm grinding some stuff on retail wow for years now, on 30 characters. There needs to be an incentive though, and there is none in Classic.

I have seen arguements that were Pro classic on both sides of this. People arguing it was hardcore, others saying it was super casual. Both are true.
The speed of the game is a lot easier for some people to handle. A lot of the people started playing WoW in there 30s - 40s, and those people are now in their 50s. Your reaction speed slows with age and the current game is basically a reaction time, memory, and vision test. Can you see the puddle under all the layers of AoE crap? Do you remember what the purple circle means? How fast can you react to procs, casts that need to be interupted, things that need dispelled, moving out of something, etc? Classic, is a lot slower paced. Hell I am in my mid 30s and I still have fealt my reaction speed slow over the years and while I can still push out top Healing or DPS in Retail, I have to focus more to do it. Classic is relaxing, and is more strategic. While tanking I am watching threat, marking targets, planning pulls. When leveling I am watching spawns around me, pats, watching my HP and if I start seeing to many misses, start planning how I will get myself out of the situation.
However, while it is far more relaxing, it is also pretty unforgiving. If I pull too many things, I am dead (or close to it having to use all of my utility to run away). If I don't plan a pull right, I wipe the group. If DPS attack the wrong thing, and then my taunt misses, they may be dead.


As someone else said, I don't really understand why those of you who dislike classic want to talk about it so much, and try to convince others that it's a bad game. I strongly dislike Red Dead Redemption 2. Do you know how much time I spend each week telling people? None. Do you know how much time I spend thinking about Red Dead Redemption 2 each week? None. Why? Because I don't like it and I don't waste my time worrying about it, or the fact that other people enjoy it. If so, good for them.

[schwank05]

Nighthold to tomb to argus was also progression.

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Because no one wants to, people don't turn up to alt runs and people would happily have not turned up to alt runs back then. As I was a one char guy I never turned up to alt raids ever, raiding is a pain in the ass. Not gonna make it worse by dragging indergesrd chars through as well.

I never had that Issue I ran the shit out if Kara just out of sheer enjoyment of the raid to this day my 2 favorite raids are Kara and Gruuls Lair.

[Monster Hunter]

I never had that Issue I ran the shit out if Kara just out of sheer enjoyment of the raid to this day my 2 favorite raids are Kara and Gruuls Lair.

I also really enjoyed kara, but once my guild was up to Tk/ssc we never went back there. The method was to put your alts in lower progress guilds or make pugs for it. If you wanted it, but I detested leveling so I was a one char guy.

[Dch48]

I am seeing very little competition for mob kills now. Nowhere near what it was in the first week. I also have not seen a login queue at any time of day since the first week. Even the Capital cities are a lot less populated. Wait until 8.2.5 drops. Then there will be a big dropoff. I, and almost all in my guild in retail, greatly prefer BfA with all it's QoL improvements and are just waiting for the new content.

[Nefastus]

*Vanilla* raids were hard. Very few people thought Classic raids would be hard, except for maybe Naxx. Starting at 1.12 IS NOT Vanilla difficulty. Anyone who played Vanilla knows how much of a difference 1.12 was compared to 1.0

Was about to write about it but you did it better. The patch classic servers started is easy mode compared to the patch we had during the intial MC raids. Even dungeons were a pain in the first game patches, specially the high level ones. I am also willing to bet Blackwing Lair won't be released in classic with the major lag problem it had in the first weeks during vanilla. Razorgore was almost impossible due to the awful lag at his room.

[snackfeat]

So? Titanforge is rare, not worth farming for unless you hae litteraly nothing left to upgrade. If your goal in this game is to hae full bis then your playing the wrong game both retail and classic.

Full bis is far from impossible to get in classic, what are you on about? And I know titanforging is rare, that doesn't make items feel any less disappointing.

[Monster Hunter]

Full bis is far from impossible to get in classic, what are you on about? And I know titanforging is rare, that doesn't make items feel any less disappointing.

Bis is only temporary even In Classic, if your goal in a mmo is to get bis gear then you shouldn't be playing MMOs because by there nature it's a self defeating objective haha

[Akka]

Nighthold to tomb to argus was also progression.

No, it was "current last raid tier" that was actually entirely replaced by a new one when they became obsolete, and the entire game population simply switched from one to another. That's the whole difference.

[snackfeat]

Bis is only temporary even In Classic, if your goal in a mmo is to get bis gear then you shouldn't be playing MMOs because by there nature it's a self defeating objective haha

Nice subjective facts bro.

[Millyraynge]

Full bis is far from impossible to get in classic, what are you on about? And I know titanforging is rare, that doesn't make items feel any less disappointing.

To achieve full raid tier bis within a phase is quite hard in classic. At least with bwl the first loot rng qq threads will appear.

[Akka]

The game is SO dead right now, that there is 30 people in Redridge Mountains atm.
It's 6:00 a saturday morning

[nyc81991]

I think you need to learn what an opinion is. You state things as if they are facts for everyone. They aren't. Nice try though.

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I am seeing very little competition for mob kills now. Nowhere near what it was in the first week. I also have not seen a login queue at any time of day since the first week. Even the Capital cities are a lot less populated. Wait until 8.2.5 drops. Then there will be a big dropoff. I, and almost all in my guild in retail, greatly prefer BfA with all it's QoL improvements and are just waiting for the new content.

Seems like you are another person who doesn't know that your opinion is literally just your opinion and doesn't apply to anyone else. Good job on taking your own little echo chamber of like 5 people and trying to apply it to everyone else though.

[Daffan]

Except almost every server is still full. So your point is a fabrication.

"Full" is a misnomer

Less layers means less capacity and therefore more queues and the label changing.

[Dch48]

I think you need to learn what an opinion is. You state things as if they are facts for everyone. They aren't. Nice try though.

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Seems like you are another person who doesn't know that your opinion is literally just your opinion and doesn't apply to anyone else. Good job on taking your own little echo chamber of like 5 people and trying to apply it to everyone else though.

There really is no opinion involved. It's objective observation.

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On which realm was cross ghost town? I i am gonna log in and check if you are lier or not.

I have been playing on Pagle.