Blizzard disabled Census functionality today

[vsb]

Sadly that would be quite a costly endeavor that an ad or two on the website likely wouldn't cover. Not worth the trouble.

I agree. I thought about launching similar project myself, but it's too much trouble for numbers that nobody really cares about (like you think you do, but really you don't), and Blizzard might hit you with law letters if they will think that this info might damage their game, so all those efforts might be for nothing.

[MoanaLisa]

I don't think anyone here thinks the results are 100% accurate to the number, but they can show some clear trends.

If most posts about these were about trends that would be one thing. Most I've seen are claiming pretty specific numbers. To my mind it's better to stop pining for subscription numbers and enjoy the game.

Usage and concurrency statistics are generally proprietary so it's not surprising that they are tightening this down.

[zetitup]

How does the addon know if the player is an alt of someone or not? Why even use this addon when it's pretty scuffed results

[Mad_Murdock]

I never said it was "wildly inaccurate." I said it was inaccurate. And I don't see how inaccurate data has any place in discussions where factual information is pertinent. Simply put, if it was information Blizzard wanted us to know, they'd make it known. If they're actively preventing players from knowing it (or, in this case... guessing about it), there's a reason: We don't need to know it.

End of story. End of discussion.

I'll have to disagree there. Blizzard doesn't want us to know something and so clearly we don't need to know it, is rarely, if ever, an acceptable answer. It should never be the end of story\discussion. You don't get to enjoy the perks of having loyal, rabid fans and at the same time have a "don't question anything we do" policy.

I don't really have a dog in this fight, as I don't play Classic and I wish nothing but the best for Classic and it's fans. I'm all about choice. I'm confident the reason they disabled it was due to unnecessary server load and maybe in a year from now, they will re-enable it once the mad rush dies down. But no one should just accept on blind faith any decision Blizz makes as purely for the good of the game or Community.

How does the addon know if the player is an alt of someone or not? Why even use this addon when it's pretty scuffed results

Depends what you are looking at. If you are looking at purely 15,000 toons spotted on this server, you are right. It could be fairly inaccurate. If you want a sense of how many people are on-line at any given time, it's "more accurate". 650 people on-line at 7pm. Sure you can make the argument that 500 are Multiboxers, but that probably not a realistic answer either.

[Redroniksre]

I'll have to disagree there. Blizzard doesn't want us to know something and so clearly we don't need to know it, is rarely, if ever, an acceptable answer. It should never be the end of story\discussion. You don't get to enjoy the perks of having loyal, rabid fans and at the same time have a "don't question anything we do" policy.

I don't really have a dog in this fight, as I don't play Classic and I wish nothing but the best for Classic and it's fans. I'm all about choice. I'm confident the reason they disabled it was due to unnecessary server load and maybe in a year from now, they will re-enable it once the mad rush dies down. But no one should just accept on blind faith any decision Blizz makes as purely for the good of the game or Community.


Depends what you are looking at. If you are looking at purely 15,000 toons spotted on this server, you are right. It could be fairly inaccurate. If you want a sense of how many people are on-line at any given time, it's "more accurate". 650 people on-line at 7pm. Sure you can make the argument that 500 are Multiboxers, but that probably not a realistic answer either.

In terms of subscription numbers, it really is something players don't need to know. How many people are playing the game is never going to factor into the average persons time, especially when the numbers are, compared to most other healthy games, fine. At most subscription numbers would only be used by the toxic factors on both sides to demonize the others. Sure they do it now with their made up statistics, but with actual hard numbers the almost harassing levels people go to would just increase.

Its good to have knowledge, but this is one area where i think players shouldn't be told either.

[Cthulhu fhtagn]

There's 5 different conspiracies in just this thread alone why constant /who spam addons would not be allowed , all of them can't be right, more likely none of them. No matter what happens certain people find any change anti classic and certain find anything pro classic. It's like making every action in your life based on a monster living under your bed without ever actually looking there. It is fun to see both sides not really knowing why the change was made, but still feeling like they have to act like they do just in case.

There is quite a long history of automatic queries on the server by addons being limited that exists.

[FelPlague]

Looks like using Who list now requires player interaction so addons cannot do it automatically anymore.

Tbh on 1 hand I get it as it just makes the imbalance worse, but on the other hand it's pretty low to just conceal that information

1. maybe cause the info is super unrealiable and just makes stuff look bad and gives horribly wrong info like blizz has been saying for 15 years.
2. maybe classic is dying and they dont want you to see? this is a theory people made for retail when they broke census stuff on there.

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Aggregates are inaccurate, but not useless.

if you are trying to writye something as factual then yes.
if your going "hey this is the faction balance" sure, but "this is the server pop" nah, at that point any "inaccuracy" throws it out the window.

[enigma77]

By making /who bugged?

Awesome

[Cracked]

By making /who bugged?

Awesome

It works if you disable add-ons that use who list.

[enigma77]

It works if you disable add-ons that use who list.

I don't use any addons that use who list afaik.

[TwoMana]

Then maybe calling them wildly inaccurate is pretty silly.

I don't think anyone here thinks the results are 100% accurate to the number, but they can show some clear trends.

I don’t thinking’s you’ve been reading then. Most are claiming that these numbers are absolute truth and no one is talking about trends

[ShmooDude]

I never said it was "wildly inaccurate." I said it was inaccurate. And I don't see how inaccurate data has any place in discussions where factual information is pertinent. Simply put, if it was information Blizzard wanted us to know, they'd make it known. If they're actively preventing players from knowing it (or, in this case... guessing about it), there's a reason: We don't need to know it.

End of story. End of discussion.

Data doesn't need to be perfectly accurate to discuss. This is just the nature of statistics. See just about every political poll done. They ask 1000 people and make a determination with a margin of error of about 4%. With enough snapshots from the census addon, our margin of error is easily within 5% which is considered "statistically significant." Take a look here: http://www.warcraftrealms.com/realmstats.php Granted this is the live realms but the argument remains the same.

The ratios are color coded as follows. If the number you see is red, then there have been less than 50 data snapshots submitted for this server/faction in the last 30 days. This is BAD and we need more info on those realm/factions! If the number you see is in yellow, then there have been more than 50, but less than 100. This is better, but we really could use more data. If the number is green then there have been more than 100 snapshots submitted in the last 30 days. This is fairly acceptible to give reliable data!

So the addon authors know they need a significant number of snapshots in order to get reliable data. That's arguably the main thing that's missing from the dataset used for the classic wow population. They really need to include the number of snapshots used over the last 14 days and a margin of error.

I don’t thinking’s you’ve been reading then. Most are claiming that these numbers are absolute truth and no one is talking about trends

Oh really? Can you quote me a few? You specifically said "absolute truth" and I've seen is one poster saying "super accurate" and another saying it's "as accurate as possible" which is not the same thing. Daish maybe, but when you take the entirety of his posts on the subject it's clear to me that he was specifically talking about the accuracy of each individual sub-snapshot (which is <50 characters at a time) and even then he's the only one that's said "perfectly accurate."

[Coldfire989]

Good it is one they needed to break a while ago.

[sephrinx]

Probably because that information is wildly inaccurate and used to spin up wild forum conspiracies that people actually take seriously. A bit like getting Trump elected started as a SA troll.

It wasn't wildly inaccurate at all. It was actually very accurate.

[TwoMana]

Oh really? Can you quote me a few?

Just read this thread. Like the dude just above this post. This thread is full of them.

[ShmooDude]

Just read this thread. Like the dude just above this post. This thread is full of them.

Wrong, you said "absolute truth." Above post says "very accurate," that doesn't mean "perfectly accurate." My statistics professor had a saying: "Statistics means never having to say you're sure." Just because you can't differentiate between "very accurate" and "useless" doesn't mean the accuracy isn't there.

You very clearly didn't even read my post, so why should I think that you've actually read this thread.

[TwoMana]

Wrong, you said "absolute truth." Above post says "very accurate," that doesn't mean "perfectly accurate."

Wow, you must be really fun at parties.

[Diatribe]

What was Blizzards ETA till we can do a /who again?

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

I never said it was "wildly inaccurate." I said it was inaccurate. And I don't see how inaccurate data has any place in discussions where factual information is pertinent. Simply put, if it was information Blizzard wanted us to know, they'd make it known. If they're actively preventing players from knowing it (or, in this case... guessing about it), there's a reason: We don't need to know it.

End of story. End of discussion.

You don't know if its inaccurate - thats the only fact we really have.

End of discussion? I'm glad you admit you're wrong.

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If most posts about these were about trends that would be one thing. Most I've seen are claiming pretty specific numbers. To my mind it's better to stop pining for subscription numbers and enjoy the game.

Usage and concurrency statistics are generally proprietary so it's not surprising that they are tightening this down.

Again, I don't think anyone will bet their lives or gold on these numbers. I don't take them as 100%, but they can show good and important information.

Its fine if you don't care about it - you can just ignore these threads and the discussion and the numbers.

But you should be able to see many reasons why people might be interested in these sorts of numbers: faction imbalance, how many people are on servers, etc.

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I don’t thinking’s you’ve been reading then. Most are claiming that these numbers are absolute truth and no one is talking about trends

I have never heard or seen someone call them absolute truth.

[Relapses]

You don't know if its inaccurate - thats the only fact we really have.

You realize this is the literal definition of a conspiracy theory, right? The absence of proof isn't proof.

End of discussion? I'm glad you admit you're wrong.

Look dude, I'm sorry you feel so entitled to know how many players are playing on any given server. I'm sure if you had this information, you'd do all sorts of non-conspiracy nonsense like try to insinuate that Classic is more popular than retail or claim that servers are "dead." No, of course not! Because why else would you want it? What use is this information to a normal player?

Meanwhile, back here in reality, nobody really gives a shit. The only thing the add-on was ever good for is helping approximate faction balance but if you're gonna roll on a PvP server that's a risk you take.