Queen Azshara (Post N'zoth) Vs Kil'jaeden the Deceiver

[Life-Binder]

BfA exposed Azshara

her power is way overrated

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Azshara would honestly probably lose to Lei Shen

[darkoms]

BfA exposed Azshara

her power is way overrated

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Azshara would honestly probably lose to Lei Shen

Lol what? Azhara much more powerfull than Lei Shen

[Kyphael]

BfA exposed Azshara

her power is way overrated

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Azshara would honestly probably lose to Lei Shen

BfA definitely didn't do her justice, but given the lore we know of her which has been cited to death (Mannoroth's quote), and how much Blizzard does not clarify power levels on any citable scale, this is more of a popularity contest than an actual battle discussion. We have next to no official word on their official power level but hearsay and gameplay mechanics which are filled with caveats, ifs, ands, and buts.

With that said, I chose Azshara because Kil'jaeden died like a chump as a patch boss not unlike her (except she didn't die.)

[Khaza-R]

Well the PC killed KJ but only exhausted Azshara. So I think the round goes to her.

[Life-Binder]

Lol what? Azhara much more powerfull than Lei Shen

based on what ?

[darkoms]

based on what ?

Azshara could easily make Mannoroth strangle herself, she destroyed the Pillar of Creation, her barrier is so strong that the only thing that can pierce him is her Javelins

[TheFirstOnes]

Well the PC killed KJ but only exhausted Azshara. So I think the round goes to her.

The Heroes nearly killed Azshara. N'zoth saved her last second. We just gonna ignore that cinematic? Or...

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Azshara could easily make Mannoroth strangle herself, she destroyed the Pillar of Creation, her barrier is so strong that the only thing that can pierce him is her Javelins

We just gonna ignore the fact that Lei'shen is above Ra'den in power, and that was with a portion of Aman'thuls soul inside of him? Yeah? Okay then...

[darkoms]

The Heroes nearly killed Azshara. N'zoth saved her last second. We just gonna ignore that cinematic? Or...

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We just gonna ignore the fact that Lei'shen is above Ra'den in power, and that was with a portion of Aman'thuls soul inside of him? Yeah? Okay then...

You mean Ra Den, who was depressed and who didn't give a damn about everything? And do you really think that he resisted Lei Shen?

[TheFirstOnes]

Kil'jaeden is highly overestimated in this forum. He's weaker than Archimonde. And Azshara is the strongest (mortal) mage to ever live (as said not only in the novels but by Jaina in 8.2, too). Pre N'zoth? Who knows, I think she still would have won. Post N'zoth? Azshara beats Kil'jaeden easily.

On that ocassion: both characters are horribly presented in their respective expansions, Kil'jaeden in Legion and Azshara in BfA both are utter disappointments.

"Kil'jaeden is highly overestimated in this forum." Based on what?

"He's weaker than Archimonde." Ehehe...

The Players (With the Artifacts) are > Kil'jaeden, who is > Gul'dan (NH), who should be > The Players (With base Artifacts) who are > The Players (With the Legendary Ring) who, with their combined efforts (As well as the help of Yrel, Grom, and Khadgar) managed to dismantle Archimonde the Defiler in full frontal combat.

"And Azshara is the strongest (mortal) mage to ever live (as said not only in the novels but by Jaina in 8.2, too)." This means nothing, as Kil'jaeden is the most powerful Warlock in the cosmos. And also, Jaina didn't see any of us in Legion (Including Khadgar). So, no?

"Pre N'zoth? Who knows, I think she still would have won." Above Mannoroth? Yes. Above Kil'jaeden? No. Kil'jaeden didn't even bother with the WoTA, as he was hunting for the Draenei during that time. He didn't consider anyone there a problem worth worrying about.

"On that ocassion: both characters are horribly presented in their respective expansions" Got this right.

"Kil'jaeden in Legion and Azshara in BfA both are utter disappointments."

At least Kil'jaeden didn't get raped by Champions that are far weaker than their Legion selves *Looks at Azshara*. HELL, KIL'JAEDEN FOUGHT STRONGER PLAYERS!

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You mean Ra Den, who was depressed and who didn't give a damn about everything? And do you really think that he resisted Lei Shen?

Yes, he was still restrained and fucked over by Lei'shen. Idc if it was without warning either, if he were that powerful, he would still be able to break out of that Incapacitation spell.

Also, yeah, he was depressed, but he still did shit. His depression peaked after Lei'shen fucked him over, though. However, I don't doubt that him learning about the Pantheon's death made him extremely depressed.

[Kyphael]

At least Kil'jaeden didn't get raped by Champions that are far weaker than their Legion selves *Looks at Azshara*. HELL, KIL'JAEDEN FOUGHT STRONGER PLAYERS!

I assumed the Artifacts were vastly stronger than the Heart of Azeroth too, but a good case has been made that the Heart of Azeroth might actually be stronger than the Artifact Weapons, especially some of them since lore-wise, not all Artifact Weapons are created equal. So the BfA player characters might indeed be stronger than their Legion counterparts.

[TheFirstOnes]

Jaina is the most powerful HUMAN sorceress.

"yEaH, bUt sOrCEreSS eQuAtE's To aLl MAGe's iN gENeRal"

[TheFirstOnes]

I assumed the Artifacts were vastly stronger than the Heart of Azeroth too, but a good case has been made that the Heart of Azeroth might actually be stronger than the Artifact Weapons, especially some of them since lore-wise, not all Artifact Weapons are created equal. So the BfA player characters might indeed be stronger than their Legion counterparts.

It doesn't matter if not all Artifacts are "created equal", you still have to consider the power they've attained. The Artifacts at their max were capable of taking out the power of Sargeras' Blade. All 36 Artifacts = Sargeras' Artifact, basically. We drew out its power, and the corruption/power of Sargeras' blade drew out ours along with it.

Now, let's take a look at the Heart of Azeroth, shall we?

[darkoms]

Yes, he was still restrained and fucked over by Lei'shen. Idc if it was without warning either, if he were that powerful, he would still be able to break out of that Incapacitation spell.

Also, yeah, he was depressed, but he still did shit. His depression peaked after Lei'shen fucked him over, though. However, I don't doubt that him learning about the Pantheon's death made him extremely depressed.

After the death of the Pantheon, he did NOTHING. And when he talked about Lei Shen about the Pantheon’s death, he thought that Lei Shen would share his sadness with him. He did not expect an attack.

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It doesn't matter if not all Artifacts are "created equal", you still have to consider the power they've attained. The Artifacts at their max were capable of taking out the power of Sargeras' Blade. All 36 Artifacts = Sargeras' Artifact, basically. We drew out its power, and the corruption/power of Sargeras' blade drew out ours along with it.

Now, let's take a look at the Heart of Azeroth, shall we?

LOL what
You were able to pump fel from it and artifacts stopped working after that
This does not mean that artifacts are equal in strength to the sword because it is still a huge fucking sword.

[Kyphael]

It doesn't matter if not all Artifacts are "created equal", you still have to consider the power they've attained. The Artifacts at their max were capable of taking out the power of Sargeras' Blade. All 36 Artifacts = Sargeras' Artifact, basically. We drew out its power, and the corruption/power of Sargeras' blade drew out ours along with it.

Now, let's take a look at the Heart of Azeroth, shall we?

Yeah, I got nothing. lol

[TheFirstOnes]

After the death of the Pantheon, he did NOTHING. And when he talked about Lei Shen about the Pantheon’s death, he thought that Lei Shen would share his sadness with him. He did not expect an attack.

Okay, read back on that as well. Wow, I was wrong. I thought Ra was still doing shit while depressed. Nevermind then. What a waste.

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Yeah, I got nothing. lol

The max it can do is likely beat down N'zoth. That'd make it stronger than our Artifacts prior to Argus. But, that's about it.

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"LOL what
You were able to pump fel from it and artifacts stopped working after that
This does not mean that artifacts are equal in strength to the sword because it is still a huge fucking sword."

And when did size matter for the Players in WoW? Almost fucking never.

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"The dark energies of the sword were seeping into Azeroth's heart, until order champions drained the sword with their artifact weapons serving as vessels for its vast power. The red glow subsided, and the sword went dormant."- WoWpedia.

The Blades absorbed the power of Sargeras' blade. Again, the power the Artifacts held, as well as absorbing Sargeras' blade, turned the Artifacts weak by the end of it all. The blade was rendered worthless, as well as our Artifacts. The only problem was that Sargeras' blade still impaled our world, as well as our world soul.

[darkoms]

"LOL what
You were able to pump fel from it and artifacts stopped working after that
This does not mean that artifacts are equal in strength to the sword because it is still a huge fucking sword."

And when did size matter for the Players in WoW? Almost fucking never.

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"The dark energies of the sword were seeping into Azeroth's heart, until order champions drained the sword with their artifact weapons serving as vessels for its vast power. The red glow subsided, and the sword went dormant."- WoWpedia.

The Blades absorbed the power of Sargeras' blade. Again, the power the Artifacts held, as well as absorbing Sargeras' blade, turned the Artifacts weak by the end of it all. The blade was rendered worthless, as well as our Artifacts. The only problem was that Sargeras' blade still impaled our world, as well as our world soul.

Sargeras sword still can destroy planets. Artifacts and close are not so strong.

[TheFirstOnes]

Sargeras sword still can destroy planets. Artifacts and close are not so strong.

"Part Ten

On the world of Centralis, the Maw of the Damned secured its place as a weapon of legend.

Centralis was home to a mighty warrior people. They resisted the Legion's attempts at conquest for much longer than other races. Yet like all who stood against the demons, they were doomed to fall eventually.

Rather than simply destroy Centralis's inhabitants, Kil'jaeden decided they would make fitting victims for the Maw of the Damned. Their potent life essence would engorge Netrezaar's spirit and push him to new realms of torment.

At Kil'jaeden's command, Gorelix traveled to Centralis. He marched at the head of a vast Legion army, Maw in hand. The blade bit through the armor, flesh, and souls of all who fell under his gaze. No corner of Centralis was safe from Gorelix's reach. No creature, not even the smallest wild beast, was shown mercy.

When his long march had ended, only a dead world remained at his back."- The Maw of the Damned's lore background

There's 1, of a fucking ton...

Also, the Artifacts were still able to neutralize Sargeras' blade. They were that powerful. I'm pretty sure they could destroy worlds with ease right then and there.

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Also, you do realize that Sargeras can do much more than just destroy planets, yes?

[Nyel]

*snip*

In game representation means nothing for "real lore power levels". You cannot base arguments on how they are represented in WoW.

[TheFirstOnes]

In game representation means nothing for "real lore power levels". You cannot base arguments on how they are represented in WoW.

You replied to me and put me up as *Snip*. Are you using my ordeal on the list I made with the Artifacts, KJ and all, cause that's definitely a "real lore" power level argument.

[Nyel]

You replied to me and put me up as *Snip*. Are you using my ordeal on the list I made with the Artifacts, KJ and all, cause that's definitely a "real lore" power level argument.

I didn't want to quote all that stuff because it boils down to what I said: in game representation. That has - unfortunately - nothing to do with "real" power levels. That's not how all of that works. What did we need to fight Deathwing? 5 aspects + Dragon Soul + who knows what else + the players. And how was Garrosh stronger than Deathwing or Illidan? It's just a total mess and does not represent how strong a Warcraft character truely is.