So Who Did Trump Sell Us Out To? The Intelligence Agency Whistle-blower Scandal.

[cubby]

Yeah...you're so much smarter than me...thanks for the condescension.

No, I'm not. I'm just being a realist. I wish I could take your perspective. But IMO we as a country cannot afford it.

Progressives to Pelosi as Trump Lawlessness Mounts: 'Stop Playing Craven Political Games' and Impeach

‘We’ve been very weak’: House Democrats decry their oversight of Trump, push Pelosi on impeachment

“At this point, the bigger national scandal isn’t the president’s lawbreaking behavior — it is the Democratic Party’s refusal to impeach him for it,” Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D-N.Y.), a longtime impeachment backer, tweeted late Saturday night. “It is one thing for a sitting president to break the law. It’s another to let him. . . . The GOP’s silence & refusal to act shouldn’t be a surprise. Ours is.”

“The total disregard that this administration has for the separation of powers, the failure to recognize Congress as a coequal branch of government, and the inability for them to follow the law is stunning,” said Rep. Ted Deutch (D-Fla.).

“We have said the president must be held accountable, and ‘no one is above the law,’ including the president of the United States,” said Rep. David N. Cicilline (D-R.I.). “We have to not only say that; our actions have to reflect that.”

“We need to develop other tools because our tools are not working,” said Rep. Ted Lieu (D-Calif.), a Judiciary panel member who is co-chair of the Democratic Policy and Communications Committee. “We cannot allow the administration to simply continuously stonewall Congress with no consequences.”

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Do you not understand that the rule of law is almost out the door. Trump is doing exactly what you (complimenting you here) and I and others said he'd do before he was elected. Ignore the rule of law and sue his way out of any trouble. Can you even count the number of laws he's already broken, while in office? I can't.

The Dems are doing their best, given a horrific situation, to right the ship. They are using all the tools at their lawful disposal to investigate Trumps litany of illegal behavior. But we are so far into the abyss that we now have the White House ordering people to ignore Congressional Subpoenas. Trump is truly lawless. And his rabid fanbase continues to follow him, no matter how crazy he gets.

If impeaching him would have any physical effect, we'd have already done it. But we KNOW it will fail in the Senate. It's even possible that Trump will pick up votes for 2020 when the Senate votes not to convict. We have to do what we can, in the right way, to beat him in 2020. Everything else is secondary.

The Dems deserves nothing but derision and mockery at this point. Subpoenas are meaningless...just as the Constitution law that they were sworn to follow.

Why? What have the Dems done wrong so far?

[Masark]

They are using all the tools at their lawful disposal to investigate Trumps litany of illegal behavior.

No, they are not. If they were, Maguire, Barr, and Ross would be sitting in a cell right now.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contem...erent_contempt

[Shadowferal]

Pretty sure if I were to flip congress off as much as any of those Trump clowns I'd be in jail.

[cubby]

No, they are not. If they were, Maguire, Barr, and Ross would be sitting in a cell right now.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contem...erent_contempt

Why do you think they haven't used that tool yet?

[Edge-]

Why do you think they haven't used that tool yet?

Because they're terrified of it being weaponized against them by Republicans, most likely. But mostly because they seem too spineless to actually do anything for...I don't know why, actually.

[Shadowferal]

Maybe the Dems aren't as "clean" as they would like to be seen.
To them it's better to be seen as weak, than just as dirty as Trump.

[cubby]

Because they're terrified of it being weaponized against them by Republicans, most likely. But mostly because they seem too spineless to actually do anything for...I don't know why, actually.

And what happens when Congress goes to arrest those people, and Trump says "no". And asks the [insert agency] to prevent any "illegal" arrest of his people? That's just about how you spell Constitutional Crisis.

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Maybe the Dems aren't as "clean" as they would like to be seen.
To them it's better to be seen as weak, than just as dirty as Trump.

Holy fuck - did you really just say that? Seriously? Are you a "both sides" person?

[Fahrenheit]

There was almost nothing correct in your post.

It’s astonishing what these Trumpkins will type out for public consumption. Like, they may as well argue that the sky is green, that water is dry, or up is down. Since 2015 and Trump coming into the GOP primaries, I feel like I’ve been taking crazy pills listening to him and his cultists.

[Thepersona]

Maybe the Dems aren't as "clean" as they would like to be seen.
To them it's better to be seen as weak, than just as dirty as Trump.

To me is more like that many demorates are beholden to similiar corporate interests than of the GOP, so they do not want by any means to change the statu quo, because that mean they would lose the purse.
This is what happens here, too. The socialist party has had 3 presidents here, in the last 30 years, and they were the ones that liberalized the country and gave away many public companies to private entities.

[Edge-]

Maybe the Dems aren't as "clean" as they would like to be seen.
To them it's better to be seen as weak, than just as dirty as Trump.

Elaborate on this, what do you mean?

Who would they be in bed with? What kind of corruption?

Democrats being spineless and sucking at politics isn't a particularly new revelation. It's been their recent history for decades, and they seem to double down on that more and more with each election.

[Kujako]

they may as well argue that the sky is green, that water is dry, or up is down.

[Felya]

Maybe the Dems aren't as "clean" as they would like to be seen.
To them it's better to be seen as weak, than just as dirty as Trump.

Wait... do you think Trump being dirty, is a problem?

I am here to tell you a very sad truth about a tact of liars. Sometimes, it’s easier to admit to a smaller lie, to make people trust you, when you need a bigger... of more consequence... to be believed. Why would Chuck lie about Buck, when he just admits farting in his office? To extrapolate that, under the assumption that all politicians are inherently liars. Can you even compare what democrats are “honest” about being and what Trump is “honest” about? Just a reminder... Howard Dean...

This is what Trump’s measurements are, according to his doctor:

https://www.gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/ed8...I-10568093.jpg

Under normal circumstances, I’ve said the same... now? I’m going to hold my vomit, as I vote Biden in general elections.

Edit: Too many images in a row... click the link for Kyle Long...

[Grapemask]

So yeah, it's painful. Of course it is. But reality is usually that way, especially when we're dealing with Trump. Nothing is going to be easy. So pull up your bootstraps and get ready to do the hard things. Because the easy shit is fairly fucking useless.

That's sort of the deal with impeachment, though. The problem with impeachment, or any tough political action, is that it's not just a thing that swells up until eventually it happens. We're in the part that few escape because it's a circular argument. Your representatives won't push impeachment because they think not enough of their base is on board. Not enough of the base is on board because they don't think enough of their representatives are on board, like your own argument. Everyone is trying to be practical, which is fine in and of itself, but the reality is that everyone is on board this train but a whole lot of people don't want to be the ones to blink first. It's like watching a crappy teen romance movie where both kids clearly want to bang but you have to sit through 1 1/2 hours of tension before someone finally does the hard thing.

[Felya]

That's sort of the deal with impeachment, though. The problem with impeachment, or any tough political action, is that it's not just a thing that swells up until eventually it happens. We're in the part that few escape because it's a circular argument. Your representatives won't push impeachment because they think not enough of their base is on board. Not enough of the base is on board because they don't think enough of their representatives are on board, like your own argument. Everyone is trying to be practical, which is fine in and of itself, but the reality is that everyone is on board this train but a whole lot of people don't want to be the ones to blink first. It's like watching a crappy teen romance movie where both kids clearly want to bang but you have to sit through 1 1/2 hours of tension before someone finally does the hard thing.

It’s not their base that’s the issue. They do not have the votes to impeach him in the senate. What would impeachment do, if Trump wins in 2020? I’m sorry, but I’m with you in spirit only. Impeachment is illogical... without senate, there are few variables where Trump doesn’t gain from it.

Edit: Just think about the Mueller report. Anything short of Trump being kicked out of office, is empowering to Trump. What happens if the same roll lands in 2020, when it comes to impeachment? Tons of evidence... his buddies in jail... everything that’s in the Mueller report, times 20. But, just like in Mueller report aftermath, Trump claims total victory and vindication, for simply not being removed? We should have learned...

[Shadowferal]

Elaborate on this, what do you mean?
Who would they be in bed with? What kind of corruption?
Democrats being spineless and sucking at politics isn't a particularly new revelation. It's been their recent history for decades, and they seem to double down on that more and more with each election.

They want Biden in...that's apparent to me.
But no matter how anyone colors this, his son isn't going to make him look good.

Never mind the polls. We've seen that trick pony before. The "establishment" candidate is Biden.

[Felya]

They want Biden in...that's apparent to me.
But no matter how anyone colors this, his son isn't going to make him look good.

Never mind the polls. We've seen that trick pony before. The "establishment" candidate is Biden.

The establishment has been drained. The current establishment, is nothing like the “establishment” Biden is in. Bush? Yeah... Reagan... Clinton... all of them. Trump drained that swamp. I’m sorry, but at this point... when Trump is incumbent... Hillary would be ani establishment. You are so 2015...

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Can’t link it... but, Washington post is running a story that Trump withheld Ukrainian funding, days before talking to Ukraine. Paywall...

[kaelleria]

Pelosi is now asking colleagues about impeachment.

[Wyrt]

Fox news is now reporting that the whistleblower didn't have direct access to the conversation.

You know, after Trump and Giuliani already admitted it happened. Whoops.

[Xyonai]

Pelosi is now asking colleagues about impeachment.

At this point they could just be waiting for the court case about the Whistleblower to come up and get some more traction before they start. Get some hard evidence out in the open where it can't just be dismissed.

[Somewhatconcerned]

At this point they could just be waiting for the court case about the Whistleblower to come up and get some more traction before they start. Get some hard evidence out in the open where it can't just be dismissed.

That's the problem. There could be irrefutable evidence of even the worst crime imaginable and the GOP in the Senate would still have his back.

That's why impeachment is not only a lost cause, but horrible optics.

Please Dems, don't blow it again, especially not leading up to election year.