[EU] Brexit negotiations at a standstill

[Monster Hunter]

You need to find another job, you're literally being exploited.

Yes, that's what work is.

[Monster Hunter]

I've said it before, Labour's biggest problem is that they are not a true opposition. Sure, they sit on the other side of the house, but they aren't actually opposing. They are not a true alternative. Their sitting on the fence strategy basically just renders them inert in Parliament and the only true opposition is left to the bloody SNP. And people wonder why Ian Blackfoot is looking so good. Well, he's a true opposition to the Government. Whenever Corbyn gets up, all I hear is "this PM is bad, vote for me!" Not very convincing, if you ask me.

I'm not against the idea of a 4-day working week in general, btw. There are small sample size studies showing that the same work can get done in 4 days of 8h work as they do in 5 days of 8h work. The idea is that a lot of work time is wasted with chit chat, procrastinating, doodling and other useless things. If office workers get behind the idea that the 5th day can be off if they do the same amount of work, they actually stop fucking about and get it done in 4 days.

Alas, corporate greed would probably turn this into something evil, so best to let things sit as they are for now.

Sorry but as a worker I'm not behind the idea of working harder for 32 hrs pay than more relaxed for my 48hrs+ pay.

- - - Updated - - -

I mean a far more intelligent approach is what California just did by forcing companies to treat self-employed contractors who are effectively employees as ACTUAL employees. The 4 day working week is a cool idea a decade in the future when we have far less demand for retail with human presence (and will probably be the death knell of that business model). The issues they need to fix NOW is misclassification and abusive part time practices; e.g. our government is passing a law that will make part time employment more costly to the employer per hour of work than full time employment to discourage such practices.

And really, you are still opening up more hours that will be filled by part time workers in a shitty employment contract instead of solving the issue in the first place. It's a completely white collar idea that ignores the needs of the working class.

I agree with this.

[Jessicka]

Yes, that's what work is.

Work is a contract that you'll do stuff for them, for money. What you need to learn is not to go to your boss with a "please sir, can I have more hours" attitude, and more a "please sir, can I have more money" attitude. I don't know what your work is, but I honestly doubt you're as replaceable as you're scared you might be. You shouldn't be working out of fear like that, it's deeply unhealthy.

- - - Updated - - -

Many SMEs do not have the HR resources to handle part time scheduling and regulatory requirements for such a large staff. It is even worse outside of large urban centers where companies all over the world already struggle to find decent workers.

Great how companies play up how replaceable people are, when the reality is something else.

[Slant]

Sorry but as a worker I'm not behind the idea of working harder for 32 hrs pay than more relaxed for my 48hrs+ pay.

This is a strategy that doesn't apply to blue collar workers. It applies to white collar jobs where it's pretty much common knowledge that a lot of time is just wasted with idle activities. This doesn't apply to many blue collar jobs where they are breaking backs to keep on a time schedule.

[mojojojo202]

Brexit has turned people stupid again.

Supreme court decision is really the only sensible decision they could possibly have come to.

If they decided that a PM can prologue Parliament to stop MPs or Lords interfering with his policy they might as well have renamed the office of PM to Supreme Leader.

[dribbles]

Brexit has turned people stupid again.

Supreme court decision is really the only sensible decision they could possibly have come to.

If they decided that a PM can prologue Parliament to stop MPs or Lords interfering with his policy they might as well have renamed the office of PM to Supreme Leader.

At least the PM is elected as supreme leader rather than anointed as such by the aptly named Supreme Court Judges. Democracy died a little bit today in the UK.

And what about the 17.4 million? Watch this space, come the inevitable GE we will speak soon enough, unless the SC Judges EU style rule those illegal too.

[Jessicka]

At least the PM is elected as supreme leader rather than anointed as such by the aptly named Supreme Court Judges. Democracy died a little bit today in the UK.

And what about the 17.4 million? Watch this space, come the inevitable GE we will speak soon enough, unless the SC Judges EU style rule those illegal too.

Separation of powers, this is how democracy works. He broke the law, nobody is above that.

[mojojojo202]

At least the PM is elected as supreme leader rather than anointed as such by the aptly named Supreme Court Judges. Democracy died a little bit today in the UK.

And what about the 17.4 million? Watch this space, come the inevitable GE we will speak soon enough, unless the SC Judges EU style rule those illegal too.

The PM isn't elected you moron.

The person who has betrayed those 17.4 million people is Boris Johnson in his complete disregard for the law, for failing to justify his position, for failing to argue his case and in fundamentally undermining the very basis of British politics by bare-facedly lying to the Queen.

This is bigger than Brexit.

[Northern Goblin]

And what about the 17.4 million? Watch this space, come the inevitable GE we will speak soon enough, unless the SC Judges EU style rule those illegal too.

Thought prorogation had nothing to do with Brexit?

Also Slant, Blackford, blackfoot is something you get from frostbite

[Breccia]

Supreme court decision is really the only sensible decision they could possibly have come to.

For my fellow Americans and other latecomers:

UK Supreme Court rules PM Johnson's suspension of parliament was unlawful

“The decision to advise Her Majesty to prorogue parliament was unlawful because it had the effect of frustrating or preventing the ability of parliament to carry out its constitutional functions without reasonable justification,” Supreme Court President Brenda Hale said, reading out the historic decision.

“Parliament has not been prorogued. This is the unanimous judgment of all 11 justices,” she added. “It is for parliament, and in particular the speaker and the (House of) Lords speaker, to decide what to do next.”

The country is deeply divided and the court ruling was eagerly awaited, from pro- and anti-Brexit protesters gathered outside parliament to people watching on television in homes and offices.

Johnson’s reaction to the damning ruling could be crucial. He now faces a hostile parliament and a European Union that says his proposals for a Brexit deal are far too meager for a proper divorce deal.

Parliament was suspended, or prorogued in the formal term, from Sept. 10 to Oct. 14. The prorogation was approved by Queen Elizabeth, Britain’s politically neutral head of state, on the advice of the prime minister.

Johnson, who took office in July, had claimed the suspension was necessary so that a new legislative agenda could be laid out and that it nothing to do with thwarting opposition to a no-deal Brexit.

Multiple UK parties are now demanding the Prime Minister's resignation. Looks like Brexit just had its Johnson cut off.

[Monster Hunter]

Work is a contract that you'll do stuff for them, for money. What you need to learn is not to go to your boss with a "please sir, can I have more hours" attitude, and more a "please sir, can I have more money" attitude. I don't know what your work is, but I honestly doubt you're as replaceable as you're scared you might be. You shouldn't be working out of fear like that, it's deeply unhealthy.

- - - Updated - - -



Great how companies play up how replaceable people are, when the reality is something else.

I'm not and I'm defiantly not replaceable. Work is a contract or hrs and value for money, if I go to my boss and say I want more money I have to be actualy worth that extra money per hour or my other option that's open to any one is give more hrs in exchange for more money.

But that's MY perogative, it's up to me if I want to give more in exchange for more cash. What labour proposes is an infringement on my workers rights to sell my services for income.

- - - Updated - - -

This is a strategy that doesn't apply to blue collar workers. It applies to white collar jobs where it's pretty much common knowledge that a lot of time is just wasted with idle activities. This doesn't apply to many blue collar jobs where they are breaking backs to keep on a time schedule.

And if there reduced to 4 days they will be breaking there backs harder for one day's less pay.

[Jessicka]

I'm not and I'm defiantly not replaceable. Work is a contract or hrs and value for money, if I go to my boss and say I want more money I have to be actualy worth that extra money per hour or my other option that's open to any one is give more hrs in exchange for more money.

But that's MY perogative, it's up to me if I want to give more in exchange for more cash. What labour proposes is an infringement on my workers rights to sell my services for income.

The working time directive already exists though, something you have clearly decided to opt out of. It changes nothing legally, but the maximum number your employer can 'demand' of you; if you agree to do more, that's fine, and doubtless will continue to be fine.

What it does do, most importantly though, is change conventions on how work is done.

[Mayhem]

And if there reduced to 4 days they will be breaking there backs harder for one day's less pay.

I haven't read up on what labour proposes, but the idea usually is to be paid the same for less working hours. So if you'd need to make overtime you'd be compensated earlier.

[Monster Hunter]

I haven't read up on what labour proposes, but the idea usually is to be paid the same for less working hours. So if you'd need to make overtime you'd be compensated earlier.

The propose a 32hr working week and removing the opt out for the EUs 48hr week. This means over time is far less likely to be offered and my options for making more money which I need in today economy and house market are more limited.

Instead if tackling why people are needing to work long hours there just forcing there will on the working class.

- - - Updated - - -

The working time directive already exists though, something you have clearly decided to opt out of. It changes nothing legally, but the maximum number your employer can 'demand' of you; if you agree to do more, that's fine, and doubtless will continue to be fine.

What it does do, most importantly though, is change conventions on how work is done.

Part of there proposal is removing the opt out! My employer won't be legal allowed to offer me hrs over 48 that directly impacts mine and many many others take home pay which many people need desperately after years of stagnant wages and rising costs.

[mojojojo202]

And if there reduced to 4 days they will be breaking there backs harder for one day's less pay.

That isn't how this works.

The idea of 4 day working weeks is to make use of increasing productivity by making use of automation, AI and other technologies as well as making working schedules more fluid, using job sharing schemes so that people are not spending more time working than they are not.

Your summation that people would end up doing 48hr work in 36 hrs is a really shortsighted view. The intention is to get people to have more of their own time for themselves.

[Mayhem]

The propose a 32hr working week and removing the opt out for the EUs 48hr week. This means over time is far less likely to be offered and my options for making more money which I need in today economy and house market are more limited.

Instead if tackling why people are needing to work long hours there just forcing there will on the working class.

Ok, my English is failing me here, what are they removing the opt-out of?

[Jessicka]

Part of there proposal is removing the opt out! My employer won't be legal allowed to offer me hrs over 48 that directly impacts mine and many many others take home pay which many people need desperately after years of stagnant wages and rising costs.

That part has to pass first and foremost, secondly, it means your base rate will increase so you don't lose money on your base rate; and that you'll therefore get even more, for less overtime.

The reality is that those stagnant wages have come while profits have been increasing and productivity has been decreasing due to lack of investment in 'things to make you better at your job', and instead giving you more hours to get it done. At the end of the day, you're being paid less for the same job as others on the continent.

[Monster Hunter]

That isn't how this works.

The idea of 4 day working weeks is to make use of increasing productivity by making use of automation, AI and other technologies as well as making working schedules more fluid, using job sharing schemes so that people are not spending more time working than they are not.

Your summation that people would end up doing 48hr work in 36 hrs is a really shortsighted view. The intention is to get people to have more of their own time for themselves.

We don't want more automation and AI, and if they had that then they would do that at AI costs less than employees anyway.

We want more work, not less.

- - - Updated - - -

Ok, my English is failing me here, what are they removing the opt-out of?

The 48hr working time directive from the EU

Under current law you can't work more than 48hr a week unless you choose to opt out. Most people opt out because then you can get overtime and more pay ofc. I've used it often to work the odd weekend for some fat extra cash when it's been needed. Labour would remove that right so I would either have to do it under the books or move to a country that let's me work overtime.

- - - Updated - - -

That part has to pass first and foremost, secondly, it means your base rate will increase so you don't lose money on your base rate; and that you'll therefore get even more, for less overtime.

The reality is that those stagnant wages have come while profits have been increasing and productivity has been decreasing due to lack of investment in 'things to make you better at your job', and instead giving you more hours to get it done. At the end of the day, you're being paid less for the same job as others on the continent.

My base rate won't increase, there's absolutely no guarentee of that. You assume the company is going to keep paying me the same wage but for only 4 days, that's incredibly nieve, there is no way that's going to happen. All that will happen is I will get under more pressure to meet the same deadlines but with less days and less options and less pay. And if labour force the company to keep my same base pay then I might as well kiss my fucking job good bye because some Indian will be doing it within a year.

Fuck my life. I hope brexit collapses so I can fuck off to Germany.

[Mayhem]

The 48hr working time directive from the EU

Under current law you can't work more than 48hr a week unless you choose to opt out. Most people opt out because then you can get overtime and more pay ofc. I've used it often to work the odd weekend for some fat extra cash when it's been needed. Labour would remove that right so I would either have to do it under the books or move to a country that let's me work overtime.

But with a reduction to 32h regular work weeks, you'd have 16 hours for overtime per week. Again, I am assuming that the 32h would be paid like your regular work week now.

[Monster Hunter]

But with a reduction to 32h regular work weeks, you'd have 16 hours for overtime per week. Again, I am assuming that the 32h would be paid like your regular work week now.

I'd have to do 16hrs to meet the same hrs I do base now, with no option to do my odd 50-60 hrs week I use to top up my pay for those extras like Christmas's and put to my house saving account.

Not to mention im now being forced to be far less competitive compared some fucking Indian software house, it was allready hard enough competing with there rock bottom prices, dosnt help there less shit nowadays.

If Labour get in I'm royaly fucked right up the arse.