Queen Azshara (Post N'zoth) Vs Kil'jaeden the Deceiver

[TheFirstOnes]

I didn't want to quote all that stuff because it boils down to what I said: in game representation. That has - unfortunately - nothing to do with "real" power levels. That's not how all of that works. What did we need to fight Deathwing? 5 aspects + Dragon Soul + who knows what else + the players. And how was Garrosh stronger than Deathwing or Illidan? It's just a total mess and does not represent how strong a Warcraft character truely is.

How strong do you think the Legendary Rings are to the Artifacts? KJ required the Artifacts to defeat them (As well as other Legendaries and all), while Archimonde only required the Legendary Rings, as well as Khadgar, Yrel, and Grom. Pretty sure that should give you a hint at who's more powerful.

[Nyel]

How strong do you think the Legendary Rings are to the Artifacts? KJ required the Artifacts to defeat them (As well as other Legendaries and all), while Archimonde only required the Legendary Rings, as well as Khadgar, Yrel, and Grom. Pretty sure that should give you a hint at who's more powerful.

No it doesn't because all that stuff doesn't matter for the overarching lore. It's a nice in game feature to make fights plausible and look better yet it doesn't work as representation for how strong a boss / enemy is.

[TheFirstOnes]

No it doesn't because all that stuff doesn't matter for the overarching lore. It's a nice in game feature to make fights plausible and look better yet it doesn't work as representation for how strong a boss / enemy is.

So, Archimonde dying to the Players with Legendary Rings doesn't equate to him being weaker to KJ who fought (And was practically equal to) far stronger players with boosted, transformed Artifacts, Legendaries, and so forth?

[Sarrgoth]

I think to answer this properly, you'd have to compare and contrast the two and use details from their respective lore to determine their strength.


Azshara was born with golden eyes which, to the Night Elves, is a sign of greatness. They weren't very common before the Sundering. That being said, she was also super powerful. It was said she possessed more magical talent than (almost) any other Night Elf in history. And grew to be considered one of the greatest magic users to ever live. This was again, before the Sundering. Xavius presented her with a Scepter (Sharas'dal) that allowed her power to grow - especially after she infused it with water from the Well of Eternity.

After this she proceeded to use the Well of Eternity's power to shape her land to her desire. And eventually Sargeras discovered her and the whole affair lead to the War of the Ancients. Why this is relevant, is because of one specific factor: he sent Hakkar, Mannoroth, and Archimonde to ensure the Legion's victory. Eventually, Azshara came up against Mannoroth and although he wanted to fight her, he believed he wouldn't succeed because "only Archimonde and Sargeras would prove superior to her."

Azshara was eventually seduced with promises of power by N'zoth and imbued with said power. She became a Naga and grew stronger beyond what she was - to the point where she no longer needed Sharas'dal.



Now Kil'jaeden is a different being entirely. Kil'jaeden wasn't special in the way Azshara was. He wasn't known for being a rarity or having immense power. He was known for his great leadership and wisdom, before meeting Sargeras. After Sargeras, even though his power grew tenfold, he still wasn't known for being powerful - beyond that of a high ranking player in the Legion. Archimonde was. Archimonde was the strength. While Archimonde was the commander on the battlefield of the Legion, Kil'jaeden had less power demanding tasks, such as recruitment and manipulation. Archimonde ruled by force, Kil'jaeden by intelligence.

So why is this relevant? Because as said previously, Mannoroth intended to attack Azshara but quickly realized he wouldn't be successful in his endeavor. He believed only Archimonde and Sargeras could hope to best her in combat - out of the beings he knew. Kil'jaeden wasn't one of those people.

And this is important because this was BEFORE Azshara got another power boost from N'zoth. So with all that in mind, I don't think it's a stretch to believe that Azshara would triumph over Kil'jaeden.

Kil’jaeden was a prodigy among a highly advanced race. I don’t know much about his powers pre-Sargeras. But he was always a clever mofo. But Sylvanas is smarter, because she is Sylvanas.

[TheFirstOnes]

Kil’jaeden was a prodigy among a highly advanced race. I don’t know much about his powers pre-Sargeras. But he was always a clever mofo. But Sylvanas is smarter, because she is Sylvanas.

So, plot armor. Gotcha.

[Aphrel]

id say based on that mannoroths observation that only Archimonde and kil'jaeden in the entire legion would have the power to take out azshara. That atleast back then kiljaeden would be victorious.

Now the question is, Is the naga-azshara stronger than the well of eternity channeling azshara?

[darkoms]

"Part Ten

On the world of Centralis, the Maw of the Damned secured its place as a weapon of legend.

Centralis was home to a mighty warrior people. They resisted the Legion's attempts at conquest for much longer than other races. Yet like all who stood against the demons, they were doomed to fall eventually.

Rather than simply destroy Centralis's inhabitants, Kil'jaeden decided they would make fitting victims for the Maw of the Damned. Their potent life essence would engorge Netrezaar's spirit and push him to new realms of torment.

At Kil'jaeden's command, Gorelix traveled to Centralis. He marched at the head of a vast Legion army, Maw in hand. The blade bit through the armor, flesh, and souls of all who fell under his gaze. No corner of Centralis was safe from Gorelix's reach. No creature, not even the smallest wild beast, was shown mercy.

When his long march had ended, only a dead world remained at his back."- The Maw of the Damned's lore background

There's 1, of a fucking ton...

Also, the Artifacts were still able to neutralize Sargeras' blade. They were that powerful. I'm pretty sure they could destroy worlds with ease right then and there.

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Also, you do realize that Sargeras can do much more than just destroy planets, yes?

Did you miss this?
''He marched at the head of a vast Legion army''
Artifacts cannot destroy the world. You clung to this stupid fantasy only because if artifacts could destroy planets, your beloved Legion would look more terrifyingly. Enough fanboyism.

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KJ who fought (And was practically equal to)

Proof? Pls?

[Nefastus]

Wasn't pre-Old God corruption Azshara mentioned to be on par with Archimonde and Kil'jaeden in terms of power?

Yeah, was about to say that. So its possible for her to be stronger than even them now.

[TheFirstOnes]

"You clung to this stupid fantasy only because if artifacts could destroy planets, your beloved Legion would look more terrifyingly."

Except they drew out the power of Sargeras' Blade. That's...already cosmic in terms of power.

Also, you seriously want proof for KJ being equal to us? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGwRQgxFcvA&t=28s Okay then.

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Yeah, was about to say that. So its possible for her to be stronger than even them now.

She was never stated to be equal to Archimonde in the War of the Ancients. What are you talking about?

[derpkitteh]

there is 0 reason to think that the gronn lords were weaker than a wildgod. the gronn came directly from the original creature created by the titans, gronn lords should all be gruul-level at the very least.

anyway, post-n'zoth, i'd say she could very well be stronger than KJ. she was already up near his level pre-n'zoth, so 10k+ years to seep in void energy and learn new void abilities is a long damn time. of course, KJ had 25k+ to the modern era, and i'm pretty sure fel is capable of greater devastation than the void is.

imo, it's a close fight. but i think maybe azshara would win.

[darkoms]

"You clung to this stupid fantasy only because if artifacts could destroy planets, your beloved Legion would look more terrifyingly."

Except they drew out the power of Sargeras' Blade. That's...already cosmic in terms of power.

Also, you seriously want proof for KJ being equal to us? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGwRQgxFcvA&t=28s Okay then.

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She was never stated to be equal to Archimonde in the War of the Ancients. What are you talking about?

36 artifacts that we strengthened the entire Legion with the help of creatures such as Odyn, Naaru, Elemental Lords and others were able to stop the desecration with the sword of Sargeras (not destroy it, not pull it out of the wound and heal it) and broke in the process.
And? Where does it say that Kil'Jeden is equal to us? If he was equal to us, we would not have won. And even if they won, then with great difficulty. But on Illidan, Velen and Khadgar there is not even a scratch

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You're putting it like you need a power level X axe before you can defeat a power level Y enemy, in reality you just need an axe that's powerful enough to break through armor and skin, and a good strike, and bam, dead.

I mean shit the Axe of Cenarius definitely wasn't as powerful as Sargeras, but Broxigar cut the mad titan anyway, it wasn't AS powerful, but powerful enough.

Broxigar's axe left only a slight scratch on Sargeras.
Nevertheless, do not underestimate this axe. The Broxigar's axe is the most powerful weapon in the history of Azeroth (with the exception of the Dragon Soul). Broxigar's axe was so powerful that he was able to break through the shield of Elune. Even Archimonde, with the help of the highborne, could not do this.

[Nefastus]

She was never stated to be equal to Archimonde in the War of the Ancients. What are you talking about?

Manoroth said that she could be as powerful as Archimonde or Kiljaeden so its quite possible for her to be even stronger than they after being further empowered by an old god.

"Mannoroth discovered, to his chagrin, that Azshara was far more powerful than him, and that only Archimonde, Kil'jaeden, and Sargeras could have matched her".

[DemonHunter18]

Manoroth said that she could be as powerful as Archimonde or Kiljaeden.

"Mannoroth discovered, to his chagrin, that Azshara was far more powerful than him, and that only Archimonde, Kil'jaeden, and Sargeras could have matched her".

nope, that's a gigantic misconception around fandom.

the statement was Archimonde and Sargeras would prove superior.

the former didn't even bother with her.

[Nefastus]

The sentence I wrote is exactly what Mannoroth said.

"Mannoroth discovered, to his chagrin, that Azshara was far more powerful than him, and that only Archimonde, Kil'jaeden, and Sargeras could have matched her". The Sundering, page 310. Thats not fandom.

[DemonHunter18]

The sentence I wrote is exactly what Mannoroth said.

"Mannoroth discovered, to his chagrin, that Azshara was far more powerful than him, and that only Archimonde, Kil'jaeden, and Sargeras could have matched her". The Sundering, page 310. Thats not fandom.

no, that's a false statement.

remove Kil'jaeden and matched is ridiculous for the share fact that Sargeras is in that sentence.

[darkoms]

The sentence I wrote is exactly what Mannoroth said.

"Mannoroth discovered, to his chagrin, that Azshara was far more powerful than him, and that only Archimonde, Kil'jaeden, and Sargeras could have matched her". The Sundering, page 310. Thats not fandom.

You took a quote from Wowpedia, not from a book. There is not a word about Kil'jaeden http://bookre.org/reader?file=1243216&pg=393
First line

[TheFirstOnes]

You took a quote from Wowpedia, not from a book. There is not a word about Kil'jaeden http://bookre.org/reader?file=1243216&pg=393
First line

Ya know, there are times where you do prove extremely useful. This is one of those times. You make me proud.

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"36 artifacts that we strengthened the entire Legion with the help of creatures such as Odyn, Naaru, Elemental Lords and others were able to stop the desecration with the sword of Sargeras (not destroy it, not pull it out of the wound and heal it) and broke in the process."

None of the Artifacts broke. They were just rendered useless. Same thing with Sargeras' Blade.

[DemonHunter18]

play it nice gents xd

[TheFirstOnes]

play it nice gents xd

*Tips Top Hat*

We are gents here, mate.

[darkoms]

Ya know, there are times where you do prove extremely useful. This is one of those times. You make me proud.

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"36 artifacts that we strengthened the entire Legion with the help of creatures such as Odyn, Naaru, Elemental Lords and others were able to stop the desecration with the sword of Sargeras (not destroy it, not pull it out of the wound and heal it) and broke in the process."

None of the Artifacts broke. They were just rendered useless. Same thing with Sargeras' Blade.

I would say that I am waiting for you to do the same, but I know that this is hopeless.
The thing is that I am objective and follow the lore without fanaticism for the Scourge or the Legion, like someone on this forum.
If they stop working, it means that they are broken. Do not make me explain everything to you.
And by the way, they did not dissipate the energy of the sword. They swallowed it and that's why they broke. After you absorb the energy of the sword, your artifact is pumped randomly. There was too much energy, the artifacts overloaded and broke. This does not make them equal to the sword. This makes them powerful enough to absorb its energy. They would be equal only if the artifacts were able to dissipate the energy of the sword, not absorb it.

Infracted.