Increase boss hp in Molten Core

[Dch48]

are you really sitting here denying that class balance and power didnt vastly increase between 1.1 and 1.12? really?

That's not true for every class. Yes the balance got better but Hunters were greatly decreased in power as part of that.

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Cause everything that matters are entry level raids? You still couldn't go in and roflstomp full BRD in 10 min at lvl 55, like you can with all retail dungeons.

All retail dungeons? Many people in my guild, including me, have not cleared Mechagon yet.

[Bjay]

Ofc you can doctor them, how naive are you?

You seem to belive that something from 2016 is impressive, that is your thing. And those things dont prove anything.

The quest to obtain Benediction/Anathema was pulled from the game files in BC. I deleted my Benediction in 2006 and never got it again. But just because I completed the quest I got the Legacy achievement associated with it years later. I can also transmog staves into Benediction/Anathema.

The date on the achievement is irrelevant.

[Hinastorm]

Why would no changes people be pissed? They didn’t change anything. Adding HP would be chasing something and then they would be pissed. There is zero reason or need to do what you are saying at all.

Your knowledge of patch changes is low if you don't think starting a fresh server in 1.12 is not a change. We are severely more powerful in MC on 1.12 patch that we would be on original patch.

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ragnaros was never hard patches help with class tuning but having 40 players that know what they are doing compared to half the raid being half useless is what makes the difference compared to vanilla.

Hard is relative to the raid group. 1.12 patch MC is easier than earlier patch MC, because we are more powerful. This REALLY is not complicated.

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The difference is that everyone knows wtf they are doing. 15 years worth of data to ingest, finding the best strat to down Rags. This would be different if they had a new boss in classic style, where there was no data mining and everyone had to figure out what to do again.

That is one factor of course, but the 1.12 patch is a big factor as well. We can do something about the 1.12 patch, we can't do anything about knowledge (without changing alot of stuff anyway)

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I should of known to expect a ton of dense responses, but my god.

[Annelie]

Internet in Sweden is not all that representative of the pace of fiber penetration in Europe in general. It's a country that has been very much ahead of the curve compared to otherwise rich and developed ones, such as Germany and France.

Yes, i know. But broadband was very common in europe at the time even if not too many had fiber.

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The quest to obtain Benediction/Anathema was pulled from the game files in BC. I deleted my Benediction in 2006 and never got it again. But just because I completed the quest I got the Legacy achievement associated with it years later. I can also transmog staves into Benediction/Anathema.

The date on the achievement is irrelevant.

You only got the classic raid achivement if you still had loot from the dungeon (or if you went back) for example. As a Mage main i did not have any achivement later on that could be tracked back to vanilla WoW.

[Outofmana]

Played on pvt servers with like +40% trash+boss hp/dmg/buffed timers before. All it did was make Naxxramas take 10x longer, and make stuff like MC trash a total drag. Whatever you do HP wise the game is easy as hell, it will just make it longer for the top, and excruciatingly boring for the masses below them.

Same with playing a buffed ZG before, gone was the 'chill' runs with everyone drunk joking around on discord, or an overall chill feeling doing 20mans, they became wipefest, not fun. Classic isn't about difficulty, wanting HP values to be buffed shows you do not understand it at all.

If anything, remove worldbuffs, it makes entire guilds raidlog (especially DMF week), and ruins 'casual' guild's raidnights if they happen to lose them mid raid. But changing HP values in any case, pretty pointless.

[Bjay]

You only got the classic raid achivement if you still had loot from the dungeon (or if you went back) for example. As a Mage main i did not have any achivement later on that could be tracked back to vanilla WoW.

Like I said, it's also tied to certain quests. Turning in Nefarian's head for example = Blackwing Lair achievement with the date 15/10/2008.

I do find it very strange though that someone wouldn't preserve their Netherwind / Frostfire etc. atleast until mid BC, but maybe that's just me.

[Daffan]

I really don't see what the argument is all about.

Yes its easier now, because of about 50 different factors (knowledge, internet, 1.12, practise).

BUT that doesn't mean this isn't a good thing. MC was never REALLY hard, later raids will be more difficult but not harshly so.

Many players will get to experience the AQ event, step into Naxx etc. The fact that it is easier this time around doesn't bother me in the slightest.

We had a server MC pug this weekend, it took 2 night's to clear MC. Many casuals and people who have NOT practised and done this before will take SOME time. It won't ever be as hard as something like a mythic azshara, but it doesn't need to be.

Just enjoy it for what it is, a trip down memory lane, don't take it so seriously, who cares if MC is easy and some guilds nolife and clear it in greens.

Do people actually care about stepping into AQ and Naxx when it won't be nearly as hard or rewarding as they remember/think?

Naxx is like a fabled legend passed down by generations of old lmao.

[Tekkommo]

Do people actually care about stepping into AQ and Naxx when it won't be nearly as hard or rewarding as they remember/think?

Naxx is like a fabled legend passed down by generations of old lmao.

I'm looking forward to all the Naxx myths being debunked, after it's cleared in 3 hours or less.

Naxx was not cleared pre 1.12 as well.

[Aftermathhqt]

Starting in 1.12 patch for the release of a server is a change. It comes with class/talent/ and gear buffs that pretty drastically increase dps.

It's no secret that MC is a joke right now. First time Rag kills with no submerge, and 30 second kills on most other bosses. Mana never matters in this environment, and that is super counter to the original design of raiding MC. That has other ramifications, like mana potions and fire prot potions being worth alot less.

Blizzard was lazy. They didn't want to do a progressive patch release plan, instead giving us this. That ship has sailed, I won't dwell on that point.

So, it seems the right thing to do would be to add HP to bosses.

I'm not saying it has to be perfect, but at the very least, mana should be a concern on the first few clears, or else this all feels meaningless, like retail.

Everquest had to do the *exact* same thing, for basically the exact same reasons. Those of us who played those servers saw this, and some other issues, coming a mile away.

Hey, you wanted it this way, now you got it "You think you do, but you don't"

[Xath]

Repeat after me: Vanilla raids were never hard.

That's incorrect but w/e releasing on 1.12 with retuned dungeon gear is going to make everything up to aq40 fall over.

[Hinastorm]

Hey, you wanted it this way, now you got it "You think you do, but you don't"

I wanted no such thing. I wanted as close to old MC as we can get. Starting in 1.12 ruins that.

Only a matter of time until Bliz follows in Everquest's footsteps. Expect the next round of servers a couple years from now to either have a progressive patch plan (unlikely) or buffs to MC/BWL bosses to make those raids not a joke (very likely).

[Seranthor]

I wanted no such thing. I wanted as close to old MC as we can get. Starting in 1.12 ruins that.

Only a matter of time until Bliz follows in Everquest's footsteps. Expect the next round of servers a couple years from now to either have a progressive patch plan (unlikely) or buffs to MC/BWL bosses to make those raids not a joke (very likely).

And you base these pronouncements on?

[CostinR]

Who gives a crap.

It's MC, enjoy a chill 1 hour on a wed and be done with it since we're certainly never going to stop doing it.

[Hinastorm]

And you base these pronouncements on?

I mean, I just said it in what you quoted, but to clarify Everquest has classic servers too, they call them progression servers. I predict WoW classic servers going down a very similar update path as those servers.

Same exact thing happened in Everquest, the raids were WAY too easy because of a mixture of player knowledge and changes to the game over time. They responded by buffing the raid bosses. It was a success.

Also, its only a matter of time until we get some simple QoL changes, because people will want them. Instant mail to your alts/guild is a surefire change for example.

People really seem to hate reading this for some reason.

[Seranthor]

I mean, I just said it in what you quoted, but to clarify Everquest has classic servers too, they call them progression servers. I predict WoW classic servers going down a very similar update path as those servers.

Same exact thing happened in Everquest, the raids were WAY too easy because of a mixture of player knowledge and changes to the game over time. They responded by buffing the raid bosses. It was a success.

Also, its only a matter of time until we get some simple QoL changes, because people will want them. Instant mail to your alts/guild is a surefire change for example.

People really seem to hate reading this for some reason.

So we are to believe that the 'museum' is no longer going to be one, but instead become another theme park... Sorry, not even close to buying it.

[ryjkur]

No one disagrees pre 1.12 MC, BWL and AQ40 were the pinnacle of WoW raiding in terms of difficulty, but after 1.12.0 they were nerfed to oblivion and you can now pug MC + Ony

pre 1.12 difficulty:
#1 Ouro - 87 days from the Twin Emperors' death. (1 day from C'thun's death) 26th April 2006.
#2 C'thun - 86 days from the Twin Emperors' death. 25th April 2006.
#3 Yogg-Saron, Alone in the Darkness - 83 days from General Vezax's death. (39 days from STARS' previous Ulduar kill) 7th July 2009
#4 Nefarian* - 75 days from Chromaggus' death. 26th September 2005. (15 minute respawn between attempts)
#5 Ragnaros* - 74 days from Majordomo Executus' death (Limited Attempts). 25th April 2005.

[Hinastorm]

So we are to believe that the 'museum' is no longer going to be one, but instead become another theme park... Sorry, not even close to buying it.

It already happened. Believe what you will.

I distinctly remember the Everquest purists saying similar things during the earlier servers. It passes. Comparing everquest forum posts from the early progression servers to today is a complete and total 180, its hilarious.

If this is your perfect version of vanilla wow, savor it while you can.

[Seranthor]

It already happened. Believe what you will.

I distinctly remember the Everquest purists saying similar things during the earlier servers. It passes. Comparing everquest forum posts from the early progression servers to today is a complete and total 180, its hilarious.

If this is your perfect version of vanilla wow, savor it while you can.

And I distinctly remember Blizzard saying Classic was a museum... Or is it your testimony that they, in fact, did NOT say that. I see that you've made a false assumption. So I'll correct it for you. Those that wanted 'vanilla' or 'classic' should have had to build a time machine to go back and play it. I still dont agree with Blizzard even doing this. I remember mocking the shit out of Warcraft players and their 'easy button' game.

So lets recap, my 'perfect version' would be one that didn't even exist today.

[Hinastorm]

And I distinctly remember Blizzard saying Classic was a museum... Or is it your testimony that they, in fact, did NOT say that. I see that you've made a false assumption. So I'll correct it for you. Those that wanted 'vanilla' or 'classic' should have had to build a time machine to go back and play it. I still dont agree with Blizzard even doing this. I remember mocking the shit out of Warcraft players and their 'easy button' game.

So lets recap, my 'perfect version' would be one that didn't even exist today.

We're talking around each other.

Blizzard is a business. Businesses make more money when they put out what a customer wants. What they said is irrelevant. Do you think acti-bliz cares more about sticking to their word, or making money? Ya.

You don't agree with blizzard doing what, classic? Why?

[Seranthor]

We're talking around each other.

Blizzard is a business. Businesses make more money when they put out what a customer wants. What they said is irrelevant. Do you think acti-bliz cares more about sticking to their word, or making money? Ya.

You don't agree with blizzard doing what, classic? Why?

Not going to re-litigate it... they've done it... and that is that.