Make WoW 'easy" again

[Shakana]

Thank you! We already spent most of the expansion on the ground and Pathfinder Part 1 grinding so many reputation bars. Part 2 should have either not been a thing or just Mechagon, Nazjatar is depressing to quest in.

Agreed, dear Kyphael! I understand why they do it, but this is since WoD, i never played WoD and i had to get pathfinder to be able to fly to look for my Voidtalon that i have now, and it took a whole damn day to complete all quests + some days with Medallions of the Legion, to get revered and exalted. Was exhausting.

[Awsyme]

Agree with the original poster.

One of the things that made wow fantastic was it was beatable by anyone. Not easily. You had to grind, wait, keep on returning to a raid etc. But given enough effort on the part of an average player you'd be standing in full tier at the top of the game. Until, y'know, next patch.

That's all changed now. You have this really weird game where questing etc is easy. Mobs aren't threatening but they're so densely packed its just.... annoying. Loot drops easily, main quests are simple to accomplish. But then there's end game. Raiding and mythic+. And those are insanely hard. Mythic difficulty raiding is so tightly tuned hardly anyone can finish it. When I last checked something like... 3000 players in the world had beaten Queen Azshara. Its so tightly tuned hardly anyone bothers to attempt the last boss in Tomb because the mechanics are so punishing. And that's... crazy.

In comparison, during legion, by this point a lot of people were doing mythic EN runs. No one even goes into Uldir and Battle anymore.

Blizzard seem to be aiming at the bottom 10% and the top .1% - unlike older wow which aimed at everyone. And I think its damaging the game. Badly.

[vitor210]

And? what are you talking about exactly? Can you sustain and articulate words in a way that people understands your point instead of trying to have brain cells of a omniscient being that knows what you're trying to say by magic?

imagine being an edgy boy that you need to insult others online to make a point. Ty for showing me I won the argument

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How long did Ony/MC last again?

dude really? It's a 15 year old game, you honestly expected people to take weeks before killing Rag? OMEGALUL

[toffmcsoft]

There should be stat normalization in matchmade pvp. Gearing should be limited to rated PVP, and also only to a small degree.

Not at all, there's zero purpose in obtaining gear to be stronger then.
Stat scaling in pvp turns wow into an esport.

What's the purpose in gearing up? Just to see bigger numbers in pve?
That's where classic shines. Someone who obtains R14 is a FORCE in PVP.

[Fred Skinner]

That's where classic shines. Someone who obtains R14 is a FORCE in PVP.

But so is someone who just raided Onyxia,BWL and MC over and over.

Gear should not matter (much) in PVP, as it is unfair to counter skill with ilevel.

You can be massively skilled in pvp, some nolifer raider will always outgear you.

If PVP should be fair, gear advantage should not matter much.

In special in matchmade pvp, as it is being used by completely different ilevel players, and normalization would prevent raid groups from killing green and blue equipped matchmade pvp players. Skill should matter in pvp, and not that you had much time playing the heigan dance in a raid group.

In rated pvp, gear should matter, because you would have to maximize gear to be more successfull.

[Kyphael]

Agreed, dear Kyphael! I understand why they do it, but this is since WoD, i never played WoD and i had to get pathfinder to be able to fly to look for my Voidtalon that i have now, and it took a whole damn day to complete all quests + some days with Medallions of the Legion, to get revered and exalted. Was exhausting.

It is exhausting, I understand beginning of expansion grinding to earn Pathfinder Part 1 and all that accompanied it, but to make us grind in Nazjatar, quite frankly an awfully designed and boring zone is asinine.

[Shakana]

It is exhausting, I understand beginning of expansion grinding to earn Pathfinder Part 1 and all that accompanied it, but to make us grind in Nazjatar, quite frankly an awfully designed and boring zone is asinine.

I try avoid the new zones. I hate both zones, i don't like mechagon and i don't like gnomes. :/ Nazjatar is like argus planet zones but with nagas and stuff. Mix between argus + azsuna. Even those 2 separated are more interesting than Nazjatar. (The raid is amazing, the palace, tho)

[Kyphael]

I try avoid the new zones. I hate both zones, i don't like mechagon and i don't like gnomes. :/ Nazjatar is like argus planet zones but with nagas and stuff. Mix between argus + azsuna. Even those 2 separated are more interesting than Nazjatar. (The raid is amazing, the palace, tho)

The raid IS cool, but you're right, zone is awful. Mechagon is more fun, I guess me liking gnomes helps.

[Soon-TM]

I try avoid the new zones. I hate both zones, i don't like mechagon and i don't like gnomes. :/ Nazjatar is like argus planet zones but with nagas and stuff. Mix between argus + azsuna. Even those 2 separated are more interesting than Nazjatar. (The raid is amazing, the palace, tho)

Same here. And not only you have to grind both places for Pathfinder on your main, but also with every single alt you are minimally serious about.

[exsanguinate]

"pretty sure"?
Why are you even commenting if you havent killed the bosses being discussed?

And why are you throwing examples of old bosses at me? Ive downed all of those bosses. And with the exception of KJ they were all alot more enjoyable to progress on. Less obnoxious mechanics but with harder numbertuning. The cata/mop/wod era really managed to hit a good sweetspot between tuning and mechanical difficulties. Todays endbosses ahs too many annoying mechanics, ill gladly take another rag 25hc over any of the recent endteir bosses weve had.

(also not sure why youve throwing c'thun in your list of big dicks thou, its nowhere near any modern raidboss difficultywise).

Can you read? I said I haven't killed Uunat Mythic on another post. I did the rest.
"pretty sure" was meant to be ironic.

[TheRevenantHero]

The guy is telling you he's having a hard time and you want to make him play a version of WoW where he'll die a hundred times more often during the leveling?

If you're dying hundreds of times while leveling in Classic, you just suck at the game.

[Whiskyjack]

I think from here we'll be at an impasse. My next point would be it's only a longer lasting system due to the lack of the QoL feature of Dungeon Finder where you can quickly jump into content as opposed to Classics design of manual group finding with the hope of finding someone that wants to do said content. Another form of tedium.

It simply boils down to preference in game designs. Classics drawn out party searches or Lives quick play options.

It's just it isn't... only on a surface level do the two compare. Unless you are using a premade with full raid geared players while not hard classic dungeons will still pose a threat.

There is investment and reward.. live is just chain running something you can nearly afk for material to make largely meaningless gear.

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If you're dying hundreds of times while leveling in Classic, you just suck at the game.

That or rolling ally on a pvp server the ratios are not good.

[TheRevenantHero]

It's just it isn't... only on a surface level do the two compare. Unless you are using a premade with full raid geared players while not hard classic dungeons will still pose a threat.

There is investment and reward.. live is just chain running something you can nearly afk for material to make largely meaningless gear.

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That or rolling ally on a pvp server the ratios are not good.

That too. I'm on a pvp server and the only time I've ever died was when I was jumped by a group of players.

[chakley]

Contrary to what these forums will tell you, dying during leveling is not the makings of a "hard" game.

Difficulty is something you can overcome with proper and engaging play. Classic leveling is not that. If you accidentally pull eg. 3 instead of 2 mobs, you are dead. No amount of awesome play can change that. Thats not difficulty, thats just frustration.

sounds like if you accidentally pulled 3, there's margin of error that you experienced that qualifies as difficulty. If you misjudge your health remaining to how far a mob leash is, or you misjudge how far a mob on low health will run to aggro others, or you misjudge the path of a pather, and aggro him, or you lose track of 'respawns' behind in a cave, or you misjudge the timing of health potting, heal, shield, etc, and die on any of it, it qualifies as element of difficulty.

In fact those elements introduce you to care of your character in a dungeon.

That is not present in retail leveling.

It doesn't have to be dance dance revolution to qualify as difficult.

But if you insist, then fine, use the term danger instead of difficulty. Classic outdoor world has danger whereas Retail does not have danger, and is therefore easier.

[Aleksej89]

Honestly making wow easy is what made it so boring for me.
In retail wow leveling is boring, class mechanics are boring, gear obtaining mechanics are boring, character progression mechanics are boring, daily quests and reputation farm is boring, the professions are dull and boring, gold economy is boring, outdoor world is useless and boring, the completely mute anonymous LFD/LFR community is boring...

The only challenges you can find in retail wow are high mythic dungeons, mythic raids and i guess PVP (if you are into it).
Every other major part of it is so easy and boring that i would rather not do it at all just cause it doesn't require even 1% of my attention.

Classic is obviously not perfect in any way, shape or form... its FAR from perfect.
To me and a ton of my wow friends it is just so damn FUN.
We are not thinking about exp/minute or itemlevel/run or gold/hour - we are just playing cause we ARE HAVING FUN!
World pvping, questing, getting wrecked by orange/red mobs, getting lost in the awkward vanilla zone designs, teaming up or just interacting with other players in the zones/channels, helping each other with professions and sharing in the results...

As i said Classic is not perfect but it is incredibly fun for me.
And a huge part of that fun comes from the fact that i actually have to PAY ATTENTION to the game in order to progress or succeed in even the basic things.

Games like Dark Souls are not so beloved because they are perfect games - they are beloved because they put a good challenge in front of the player and let you find a way to solve it.
And if you noticeably fail they punish you for it - sometimes even too hard of a punishment but that smack is what keeps players interested and at attention.

In BFA until MythDungeon/MythRaid teleport to instance occurs i have absolutely nothing in PVE to think about or be challenged by in the game.
Its so brain dead easy its too boring to even play despite being "free" (with subscription for classic).

[ParanoiD84]

Only thing hard in wow is mythic raids, and all you need there is time and some more time to learn the mechanics. That and gear from previous bosses. remove that and it's easy as fuck from leveling to doing dailies and what not.

[Levogames]

I think you guys missing the point of this topic.

HC-raids in BfA are much harder for PUGs then before.

Things like Mekkatorque, whole Crucible of Storms and Azshara are PUG breakers in HEROIC, they need voice comms and personal fails are 100% raidwipes.

Nobody is talking about 1-player-raidwipe mechanics and the need of comms in MYTHIC but the difficulty in HEROIC is a bit to high, since PUGs most often don't clear the content.

Even if you don't raid and dont PUG, at least you could watch some mythic-clear streamers struggling just as hard in heroic pugs as everyone else at those PUG breaker bosses.

Absolut valid topic, there is no need to make this to a classic/retail newb discussion, because the main MMO audience right now does not raid anything above LFR.

This.
Thank you, hope everyone sees this comment.

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It's irony & comedy when people compare Classic's "difficulty" to Retail. Yeah, if you're just doing dailies and question on alts, running LFR and the dungeon queue. Sure, BFA is easy. But if you're pushing keys and heroic/mythic raiding, it's far more difficult than Classic. The only thing that makes Classic feel "hardcore" is your personal need/want to grind to the same shit many of you did 15yrs ago (or never and pretend you did), replaying the same old tired, simple raids where, with shit graphics, and 1000x times less content.... because you think you're so edgy.

I get so tired of these arguments over what's best and I get so tired of being neutral about it. Like who gives a fuck who's playing what? Just because it's not what you like doesn't mean what they like sucks or they're "casuals" or "LOLRETAIL" - Gtfo. The streamers are only playing Classic to cash in on it because a bunch of 20something were still pissin' themselves when it was released and never got to play anything until Wrath and they're what flood Twitch. The streamers are the 30somethings that have done it all, know it all, toxic, some have played MLG or are MLG type and then others are just obnoxious trolls which are all things that trigger the 20somethings into making games toxic and acting like a bunch of white supremacists.

Just play whatever the hell you like and be happy that everyone has a version they like now. Can't that just be a thing?

Can understand but this is not classic-related topic at all. Cata/MoP/WoD related is fine if you wanna talk about that

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i like how release of classic turned nostalgia crowd from "retail too easy" to "retail to hard" in a matter of week

I personally never talked from a point of comparison with classic, it's just that pugs are not enjoyable anymore unless you play lottery.

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That's how wow is nowadays. That's why people are saying to play classic where personal mechanics aka responsibilities didn't exist on classic. They are the ones comparing classic not you. Something that happens in almost all threads.

I wish to upvote this

[Levogames]

I don't feel like anything in-game is hard, more like annoying. Like flying "Part 2." I spent all year getting exalted with every faction on Zandalar and Kul'tiras. Then "ok, now go get revered in Mechagon and awful-to-navigate Nazjatar." Get the fuck out of here.

Yeah, I encourage you to find 30 people who really can clear Eternal Palace HC with... let me propose... 420 ilvl. Guilds will struggle, pugs will be impossible and the most important thing, almost nobody will enjoy the game.

[Kyphael]

Yeah, I encourage you to find 30 people who really can clear Eternal Palace HC with... let me propose... 420 ilvl. Guilds will struggle, pugs will be impossible and the most important thing, almost nobody will enjoy the game.

That's why LFR is there for you.

[Levogames]

The hardest thing about WoW, is finding 20 folks who won't ...

Yes, exactly, that's why we need easier heroic raids, to enjoy again and not waste so much time, if we decide to try.

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Erm, wow has 4 different raid levels for exactly the reason you've stated in the OP.

Personally speaking, it appears you are wanting to "carry a raid" with "only a very few" friends but don't want to do it at the intended [normal] level of difficulty because the possible [iLevel] rewards are below what you want.

I want to carry a raid with the use of skill, as we could do in another expansions like in other expansions, where a friend takes the healing lead and a another one carries the tanking without needing to come overgeared, I don't want to get any gold, just enjoy pugs and use my alts/time for more than just queueing and disbanding.

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That's why LFR is there for you.

I repeat it for you. 420+Heroic, and lemme see any log about that happening. If you don't play overgeared you aint doing anything, even with your guild.