Make WoW 'easy" again

[Powerogue]

So not "easy" so much as "mechanics that don't wipe the raid if just one player screws up", I can totally understand. Nothing quite as frustrating as wiping on old content because it's just that unforgiving to a death or two. Still can't manage to beat mythic KJ with my guild due to having several such mechanics...all of which activate at the same time, most of which require you to do different things, and there's an entire phase where you have to do all of them at once while totally blinded.

What sick bastard makes boss fights like that?

[Cosmic Janitor]

So not "easy" so much as "mechanics that don't wipe the raid if just one player screws up", I can totally understand. Nothing quite as frustrating as wiping on old content because it's just that unforgiving to a death or two. Still can't manage to beat mythic KJ with my guild due to having several such mechanics...all of which activate at the same time, most of which require you to do different things, and there's an entire phase where you have to do all of them at once while totally blinded.

What sick bastard makes boss fights like that?

As I wrote earlier, ToS was the hieght of that design but Blizzard was (rightfully) chided by the top raiding guilds for this being not fun in the least, which is why they toned it down.

Edit: In general though, if we talk about encounter design in WoW, most of it is just throwing more and more random shit at you at the same time in recent years, not a huge fan of that tbh.

[Seranthor]

What game has harder raiding than wow?

Wow has no death penalty, does have flying, wiped raids take a few minutes to recover from instead of potentially hours or longer. Wow's early levels are measured in a few minutes... we go from 0 to max level in a handful of days... What exactly is 'hard'? The answer is nothing.

[Pilek01]

Never called it hard. Comparing it to LFR is ridiculous.

but even in LFR people have to do mechanics, in classic everything is tank and spank. And using 1 button to dps.

[TwoMana]

I think retail raids are just about right difficulty. The only thing I'd like them to change are the last bosses, because they've all had terrible attrition mechanics throughout BFA. So reduce the weak-aura disease on final bosses, up the dps/hps/surivability mechanics from boss 3 onwards and we're in a really good place.

Mythic doesn't need to be for everyone. Nether does Heroic. We have a sliding scale of difficulty and that's fine. Everyone can find their spot.
If you want super easy raids with no mechanics that only rely on having the right pre-raid gear on, then Classic might be worth a try.

[Raelbo]

Thank god you can't beat a boss if 10-20% of the group does not perform adequately.

And for those 10-20% the solution is in the above post : play at easier difficulty or improve. But stop asking Blizzard to ease the fight because those people don't want to adapt.

Why are you so adamant about refusing to try and get what other people are saying?

In spite of the title of the thread (which presumably was made somewhat provocative in order to grab attention) no one is asking for the content to be easier. They're asking to make it less punishing on the group when one individual messes up on the easier difficulty levels. What he is asking for is for the fights to be such that an underperforming player can be compensated for by some over-performing players.

I am not saying you're wrong that the 10-20% of people who are trying to pug content above their ability should rather stick to easier to easier difficulties. Of course they should. Unfortunately those people do exist who will try their luck and the problem is that it ends up punishing the rest of the group.

Picture two possible scenarios. You have a pug of 25 people doing Heroic. In the group, there is a mix of players with average ilevel ranging from 435-445, way above what is actually needed to clear the raid.

Scenario 1: The group pulls and 3 people die. 2 of them because they're just useless, and one who got unlucky. The group wipes because that's just the way the encounter is. Immediately one douche bails, which triggers another 5 to leave. And then the whole group falls apart.

Scenario 2: The group pulls and 3 people die. 2 of them because they're useless, and one who got unlucky. The group doesn't wipe though and still beats the boss. The raid leader tells people to pull up their socks or get kicked. Next pull, the 2 useless people screw up again, but the guy who got unlucky on the previous boss performs well thus demonstrating that he should be there. The 2 useless people are kicked, and the pug is now well set to progress through the instance.


Scenario 1 is just a lose-lose situation for everyone involved and creates a massively negative gaming experience. Scenario 2 allows people to actually enjoy the game. Why you seem to prefer Scenario 1 is something you're going to have to explain, because to me it's just plain nonsensical.

[Sezh]

The guy is telling you he's having a hard time and you want to make him play a version of WoW where he'll die a hundred times more often during the leveling?

My Paladin is level 49 currently and so far I've died twice in Westfall and that's it. Excluding PvP-related deaths ofc.

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Only mythic raiding is somewhat difficult which is aimed to 0.1% of the playerbase.

This is a funny (read: disingenuous) way of phrasing something. Mythic raids aren't "aimed at" 0,1% of the playersbase. Mythic raids are so difficult, that only 0,1% of the playerbase are able to clear them. If the fact that such a small amount of your playerbase is able to complete the most difficult content is not enough proof the the most difficult content is actually difficult, I don't know what is. Especially if you want to make the ridiculous comparison to Classic where 100% of the playerbase is able to clear the most difficult content.

[Fartoo]

To be fair, Blizzard actually cannot make harder raids without adding another difficulty and they won't. Remember the last time they made a hard raid? There were mythic tears everywhere because there was no gear progression that would allow guilds to get better. They either had the right skills or they couldn't do it. It was so hard that it actually hinted that Method may not be the best raiders the game has. It definitely showed that the majority of mythic raiders shouldn't really be calling themself that.

Valid point. But I meant increase the difficulty of the easy face roll bosses (sivarra, radiance, champion of the light etc.), not the entire raid necessarily. Should have just worded it better.

[vitor210]

You're right. The top content for Classic wasn't cleared by less than the maximum about of people with a large share of that not maximum level with gear that wasn't even close to be considered dungeon gear. In the first week.

Classic is hard.

hehehe it's seem people repeat the same fact over and over ad nauseum as if it's the same person using different accounts. A 15 year old raid being cleared in the first week doesn't prove anything. If any random Joe had 15 years to practice mythic Jaina, ofcourse it too would be killed in the first week. You need to look at other things like leveling. Its braindead on bfa, challenging on classic

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Didn't two raids get cleared in a single day... Classic has harder leveling but that's it.

oh look another one

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Ye that's why everything was cleared in a week, lmfao.

3rd /10char

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no, classic is the easy wow. no classic hero could beat mythic TEP

Like I said, if anyone had 15 years of attempts with Mythic Azshara, it too would be beatten in a single week

[Varvara Spiros Gelashvili]

hehehe it's seem people repeat the same fact over and over ad nauseum as if it's the same person using different accounts. A 15 year old raid being cleared in the first week doesn't prove anything. If any random Joe had 15 years to practice mythic Jaina, ofcourse it too would be killed in the first week. You need to look at other things like leveling. Its braindead on bfa, challenging on classic

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oh look another one

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3rd /10char

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Like I said, if anyone had 15 years of attempts with Mythic Azshara, it too would be beatten in a single week

It would be killed in the first week without being inflated by by the leveling process which was the majority of the time it took to get there world first in classic. Classic raids went down in one day while people were undergeared, underleveled, and not even a full raid group was participating. That would never happen on live. Molten core is a joke but naxx we'll probably be a struggle. Just get over it.

[Segus1992]

Yeah. Agreed. LFR is harder.

but even in LFR people have to do mechanics, in classic everything is tank and spank. And using 1 button to dps.

You could say that if you hadn't actually played Classic, yeah.

[Hero2Zer0]

PS. It's sad that Classic fanboys have to make every thread into a game vs. game war these days. Please go to the classic section instead.

I agreed with the rest of what you said. But the first person to derail this into a retail vs classic was probably a retail player.

First reply made:

If you want easy WoW then classic is there for you.

[anon5123]

WoW is annoyingly harder than before because of the implementation of new "personal" mechanics where a single failure could wipe an entire raid and there's no way that 5 people can carry the full mechanic of an encounter.

...?

WoW has been like this since release. There have ALWAYS been mechanics where 1 person could wipe the raid, in every single raid since MC.

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but even in LFR people have to do mechanics, in classic everything is tank and spank. And using 1 button to dps.

Try "tank and spank"ing C'thun, or nef, or chromag, or razorgore, or....etc

I dare you

[VinceVega]

It would be killed in the first week without being inflated by by the leveling process which was the majority of the time it took to get there world first in classic. Classic raids went down in one day while people were undergeared, underleveled, and not even a full raid group was participating. That would never happen on live. Molten core is a joke but naxx we'll probably be a struggle. Just get over it.

I actually doubt that. Even Four horseman has no real difficulty anymore. It is basically a pattern you have to learn. It is inflated difficulty because of the number of geared tanks you need. No idea if they have to be geared this time around tbh.

[rohoz]

You could say that if you hadn't actually played Classic, yeah.

roflmao, sure buddy.
Just press your 1 button and don't think too hard. Adults are speaking.

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I agreed with the rest of what you said. But the first person to derail this into a retail vs classic was probably a retail player.

First reply made:

but is he wrong?

rank 1 rag parse cast 1 spell btw lul.

[Dylamoo]

I think you're misremembering. There were plenty of raids that yielded individual mechanics that would wipe the raid if they failed. Nearly every raid had several bosses that had mechanics that would raid wipe if individuals failed. WoW being hard PVE wise as you decide to go up difficulty levels makes absolute sense and is arguably it's only redeeming quality left.

[Whiskyjack]

I don't know if difficulty is the issue as much as progression. I think classics target a item and slowly build your character up as they progress through content bit by bit in a structured and controlled manner is more appealing then the weird and wacky random upgrade system of live.

I would argue it's better to have easy raids then release harder raids and dungeons as the expansion carries on rather then these flat resets we have. Make a few items each tier that cheat the power scale like hand of justice and you will find players more naturally mingling then using raider io.

Difficulty is a issue but not as much as pacing in my eyes.

[Thelyron]

I raided and cleared heroic ICC back in the day. Almost every single raid after that felt harder than the one before it. It feels like they're jacking up the difficulty ever more, and i personally think that there was never any reason to do so. Ulduar and ICC's difficulty levels were completely fine.

[deenman]

lmao no buddy, it's the oposite. Easy WoW is retail

he most likely means easy from a raiding point of view

[Shakana]

It would be killed in the first week without being inflated by by the leveling process which was the majority of the time it took to get there world first in classic. Classic raids went down in one day while people were undergeared, underleveled, and not even a full raid group was participating. That would never happen on live. Molten core is a joke but naxx we'll probably be a struggle. Just get over it.

Naxx had mechanics that i loved. And was probably one of my favorite raids. Love that raid.