Remember when Sylvannas shouted "For the Horde!" in the BfA trailer?

[NecroVane]

Uh, well, it's already been stated that the cinematic was basically non cannon, so its pretty irrelevant.

[Halyon]

Which ones though? As it is now literally none of the Alliance leaders would put themselves in a position to be killed aside from maybe Tyrande? Not even Genn is reckless and always follows orders (usually.) Other than that BFA Alliance leadership doesn't really take risks like the Horde does so any Alliance death will just be another shock value kill which we've had plenty of already.

Stormheim was the best chance to kill Genn off and BoD Jaina. I don't see any opportunities arising in the future for this xpac.

I'd be happy with Tyrande alone. She's such a massive cunt. And her accent is so...hatable too.

[Soon-TM]

Uh, well, it's already been stated that the cinematic was basically non cannon, so its pretty irrelevant.

An intro cinematic is non canon now? Oh my goodness...

[qwerty123456]

I remember Benedictus. He kind of mostly just affected Stormwind, and wasn't a threat to both factions like Garrosh and Sylvanas.

Benedictus was trying to destroy all life on Azeroth and you kill him in Hour of Twilight. Technically Garrosh was less of a threat than him as he was willing to keep the orcs who followed him alive.

[Trumpcat]

I do remember and then I said to the fanbois on these forums: she is manipulating you.

Orc brain hears "foar da Horde", Orc brain triggers.

Before the Storm book confirmed it later - she didn't care about da Horde. The Siege of Lordaeron cutscenes confirmed it too, she not only killed her own Horde soldiers to raise them as undead, she also spoke against "da honor".

Now she's got no more use of it and she snapped, openly saying what she thinks.

There are things I can criticize the writers on, but I love their work on Sylvanas. She's always been true to character all these years.

[Ulthane]

All I know i the back and forth that happened following that Blizzcon, how Horde players were just all "Sylvannas this, Dark Lady that" and you would show lore facts that literally said: "Bruh, shes using you guys" and they would go and dismiss it. Oh yes, how the tears came from that one. It went from: "SHES HORDE MOM" to "Omfg please say sike right now"

One of the most enjoyable "I told you so" moments i've seen.

[Kallisto]

I remembers the Sylvanas sycophants on here talking about how she cares about the Horde, I told them it was nothing but a lie.

Well I won't gloat really, already triggered someone Tuesday....but...LOL.

The problem is that it's not her lying to the rest of the horde. It's that her internal thoughts. You know the one place you can't lie goes against "I hate you all.". In her own thoughts she has stated that she does care about the horde, forsaken, Sin'dorei. Now does she have deadpool powers to fool the reader too?

- - - Updated - - -

The Saurfang death cinematic is pretty much proof that Blizzard does NOT play out the stories for expansions years in advance. Because if the story for BfA was planned out 100% and not made up as they went, then I weep for the future of WoW.

If they don't plan out stories years in advance how the hell do they have the cinematics already made years in advance? Metzen retired 3 years ago and even then didn't go to work for months before that and he was being shown all the BFA cinematics back then. He mentioned as such and made sure to mention the one where Anduin marches into Lordaeron throne room. These cinematics have to have been planned out at the latest when 6.2 was being released.

[exochaft]

If they don't plan out stories years in advance how the hell do they have the cinematics already made years in advance? Metzen retired 3 years ago and even then didn't go to work for months before that and he was being shown all the BFA cinematics back then. He mentioned as such and made sure to mention the one where Anduin marches into Lordaeron throne room. These cinematics have to have been planned out at the latest when 6.2 was being released.

It's on par with people saying "omg Blizz just put out a mount you get with a 6-month prepaid sub, they must have seen their subs dropping and just came up with this a month ago to get more $$$!"... this stuff really is planned out way in advance. The general story is already laid out for the the 9.0 expansion in all likelihood, and any cinematics for the 9.0 expansion are at the very least being worked on right now. In all reality, there's probably even some very broad work in terms of story and such already being made for the expansion to follow 9.0. Sure, all the details aren't ironed out, but this isn't something that goes from conception to finished product in a month... this sort of stuff takes years.

When it comes to Sylvannas, there's always been a decent amount of continuity with her character... but sometimes it's not apparent to even the player at the time because that's how the story unfolds. Even now, there's quite a bit that we don't know about what she wants and what she hopes to accomplish. Even when it came to the burning of Teldrassil, people were conflicted if it was a good idea in terms of winning the war or if it was an act of impluse or planned... when it's obvious now that her actions weren't about winning a war at all, and whether she intended to burn down the tree or not doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things. Kind of like her shouting "For the Horde!", as the lack of knowledge of her true goals and motivations made us believe one thing at the time but have likely shifted now. Was it that the writers messed up? I think the more likely scenario is that this was planned the entire time, and even as a player we are not always privvy to what's going on in people's heads. That's part of being in a story, you don't always get the luxury of omnipotence and can be played the fool just as much as any other character.

Regardless, we're still trying to rationalize what's happening in a storyline that hasn't even completed yet. Let's see how it plays out.

[Aucald]

Have you ever heard one of those radio commercials where the voice-actors aren't very good at their craft, and the false earnestness with which they try to pitch the various product they're advertising is just so apparent that it's like the mental equivalent of chewing on tinfoil? That's kind of how Sylvanas screaming "For the Horde!" in the opening BfA trailer was for me. It read almost immediately as disingenuous and somehow false, and opposed to stirring up any kind of pro-Horde patriotism it sort of felt more awkward and weird - it just wasn't something that seemed natural for Sylvanas to do or say. Not to say I had any kind of real foresight as to what she'd later do at the end of the War Campaign by abandoning the Horde, but that at least felt natural - it felt like something Sylvanas would do and say. It also came as little surprise to me when it happened, whereas Sylvanas' screaming "For the Horde!" was surprising, and a bit unsettling. A lot of people read Saurfang's roar as a kind of encouraging response, too; but I kind of read it as the guy who'll clap hesitantly after an awkward speech or recital, hoping that other people will pick up on the cue and join in. The whole tableau was just awkard then, and now in hindsight I can more fully see why.

[korijenkins]

Yes, she said it numerous times.

She never actually meant it.

The cinematic and in-game event were waaaay different.

Seems to me the writers changed their mind mid-xpac and re-wrote her completely.

[Dorothyjean]

Fixed that for you.

Now I can't stop hearing Sylvanas Windrunner saying... "You're all deplorables"

Thanks.

[Kyphael]

Benedictus was trying to destroy all life on Azeroth and you kill him in Hour of Twilight. Technically Garrosh was less of a threat than him as he was willing to keep the orcs who followed him alive.

Oh yeah... ok, point taken. lol

[TheRevenantHero]

The problem is that it's not her lying to the rest of the horde. It's that her internal thoughts. You know the one place you can't lie goes against "I hate you all.". In her own thoughts she has stated that she does care about the horde, forsaken, Sin'dorei. Now does she have deadpool powers to fool the reader too?

- - - Updated - - -



If they don't plan out stories years in advance how the hell do they have the cinematics already made years in advance? Metzen retired 3 years ago and even then didn't go to work for months before that and he was being shown all the BFA cinematics back then. He mentioned as such and made sure to mention the one where Anduin marches into Lordaeron throne room. These cinematics have to have been planned out at the latest when 6.2 was being released.

It's easy to get someone back to do some voice lines. I don't think all this garbage was planned out that far in advance. No fucking way.

[wargone]

It's obvious the lore team decided to use the position of Warchief as a vehicle for Sylvanas' character progression and master plan. To be honest, I wish they'd do the same to the position of King of Stormwind. Anduin doesn't even have to die, just have him go missing as Varian did and put in an evil Steward to the Throne. It would make for some interesting story-telling in the Alliance for a change.

You mean.. How blizzard Copy pasted pretty much garrosh story for what Sylvasnas story in Cata+MoP Til BFA.
And now you want to do Vanila for the alliance in next expation?

You got to realise it is fine to make new plot and storylines right.

[InTheEnd]

You really need to be off your rocker if you think the writing for BfA (and especially Sylvanas' character) is anything short of atrocious. How people can defend the shit writing is a mystery to me...

[Nzx]

Imagine getting this worked up about a story you haven't even seen the conclusion to. People on these forums will cry about fucking anything.

[Pakheth]

But you didn't assume that at the time.

Well to be honest I never trusted her, especially after that stuff in Stormheim with Helya. I knew she was planning something but not what. Was just waiting for the reveal.

We will see how it developes further.

[Felixon]

And,what about it? Getting a feeling,that Horde's playerbase will believe in every bullshit presented to them,if there's "FOR THE HORDE" in it. The undead know nothing about the horde and the fact,that they were welcomed into it,was one of the biggest mistakes.

[Oxford Kama]

And then they talk about her being morally grey lmao. You'll have a better chance of reasoning with a wall than you will with a Sylvannas fan.

Morally Grey is a Blizz quote. Educate yourself.

The BFA trailer came out and people flipped shit at how dumb it was that we were blatantly retreading Garrosh Hellscream's storyline. They were worried that Sylvanas would turn from an Evil-But-Loyal antihero to Chaotic Stupid Plot Device the same way Garrosh did.

Blizzard told those people "Sylvanas' story would not end as just another raidboss". Blizz said her character would be "morally grey" where Horde players would have a reason to follow her instead of her being yet another clearcut evil plot device.

Morally Grey is not a quote from the Sylvanas playerbase.

Morally Grey is a broken promise from Blizzard.

But that'd expect everyone with a Sylvanas hateboner to go outside of Post-MoP WoW for information on characters and that's too much work when making another circlejerk thread on MMOC is so easy.

Play WC3 or read a synopsis. Read the books or a synopsis. Read the comics or a synopsis. Play through Northrend. Play Cataclysm Silverpine. Tell me Sylvanas always hated everyone but herself.

[Raelbo]

and she couldn't easily have fooled people when fighting against saurfang? After saying "you're all nothing" just follow it up with "The horde will not lose to you rebellious traitors. Archers, FIRE" and flown back or something? She could EASILY still manipulated people, but instead they had to make her go ahead and say "luls screw the horde"

Ok, so I am not going to try and convince anyone that Blizzard's execution was 100% correct, but the basic idea is not implausible.

Sylvanas is clearly a sociopath. Charming, narcissistic and without the capacity for remorse or empathy. Inspiring leadership comes very easily to such a person, but it really is all just a show that they are putting on to get their followers to do what they want. The weakness of any sociopath though is their hubris. They are prideful, arrogant and believe that they are utterly superior to anyone else. Sometimes, if they are made to feel smug/confident in their position, and then someone challenges them, they are susceptible to saying something that is out of line with the facade they normally maintain.

I could give you an entire list of real life instances where this actually happens. And often sociopaths even get away with it, because they are very good at glossing over their mistakes.

Anyhow, that was Saurfang's plan. Get Sylvanas riled up, get her in a position where she has won, but then drop the insult that she cannot help herself from responding to. Sylvanas's retort wasn't aimed at the Horde. It was intended for Saurfang, to crush his spirit. But in her moment of smug arrogance, she forgot, just for a second, that the rest of the Horde was also watching. She let her mask slip intentionally for Saurfang because she knew she'd won, what she didn't intend, and probably realised the moment she said the words, was for the rest of the Horde to see it too.

Now I am not saying it was a great plan. It was a gamble. Maybe even a stupid gamble. But there was always the possibility that it could have worked. And as it so happened, luck was on Saurfang's side and Sylvanas fell into the trap.

- - - Updated - - -

I wonder if she has multiple personality disorder... is that a new trait you can get in undeath?

You're maybe not far off on that one.

Sylvanas, before she died, was the epitome of the noble hero. Arthas turned her into a monster. Then at some point she managed to reclaim her mind. The trauma she experienced was extreme. It shouldn't be surprising that it massively altered her personality, that there would always be a conflict within her between "good" Sylvanas and "evil" Sylvanas.