Mega-Thread: Impeachment Proceedings & Inquiry of Trump

[Orbitus]

So I was wondering. Let's say the whistleblower is, as the GOP talking points insist, a partisan liar.

Why the threat?

If the whistleblower is making stuff up, why is that spying and treason?

I think Trump just admitted that the whistleblower is telling the truth.

Because Trump knows that it isn't a liar. Any other rational person in that type of position would willingly let an investigation happen, and would let the investigation play out without adding more possible crimes, on top of the ones that are already pending.

[Breccia]

This by itself should end the inquiry and just file the damn articles of impeachment.

I'm looking forward to the defense on this one.

"The Ukrainian officials said Trump would not release the aid without a promise of an investigation."
"You can't trust the Ukraine government's word, they're all corrupt!"
"Um...including the Ukrainian President Trump admitted asking for an investigation? If they were untrustworthy, why would he ask? And why would he trust the results?"
"Uh...smokebomb!" *poof* *sound of running footsteps*

[Gestopft]

I think you're not understanding impeachment, which is fair, since it's only happened once in modern times. Mitch McConnell doesn't set the timetable for the trial on articles of impeachment, even though he's the majority leader. He's just the Senator from Kentucky. The Chief Justice (in this cast, John Roberts), sets the schedule for the trial. McConnell doesn't have a say (unless Roberts takes his opinion under advisement).

In theory, articles could be served on Trump and Pence both at the same time, and Roberts can try them back to back. Seeing as the House would never approve Pence's VP pick if he was impeached, Roberts would probably do something similar. And McConnell would have no say in it.

It's not so much about the timetable; it's about whether McConnell would make a deal to deliver enough votes to remove Trump. I think the only condition under which he would allow Trump to be removed is the condition that Pence is off the table. Or that his charges would come up only after a new VP is confirmed.

[eschatological]

Yeah, but he doesn't have the leverage to make that deal.

If there's enough to impeach Pence, then you do it. If there's enough to convict him, then you convict him. It's unlikely that there's a scenario where Pence is actually in danger of being convicted in the Senate, and Trump isn't, so much so that Pelosi makes a deal to secure the votes for Trump's impeachment.

If Pence is in danger of being removed - then holy hell, Trump must be long gone.

[Poopymonster]

That made my brain do a double take. I can't even comprehend the implications if it was Pence.

And that people is when it happened. My chair went over backwards as I started laughing. It's why at almost 12:30AM, I have two confused cats, one scared cat, and one sleepy confused SO asking "Poopy, what the fuck are you laughing like a hyena about?"

[Dontrike]

That's the nature of all phone transcripts. There isn't a magic button that just spits out the text. The call is listened to by professionals who then transcribe it.

There's probably 'rawer' transcript, but we got transcripts.

I feel bad for whoever has to transcribe Trump's words; having to listen to the same fucking adjective applied to different nouns a few hundred times over that period, and you usually have to listen to it multiple times to make sure you have it right. That person is going to need some heavy therapy.

[Poopymonster]

I feel bad for whoever has to transcribe Trump's words; having to listen to the same fucking adjective applied to different nouns a few hundred times over that period, and you usually have to listen to it multiple times to make sure you have it right. That person is going to need some heavy therapy.

/EquipTinFoilHat

The whistleblower is the single therapist all the people who have to transcribe/listen to Trump's calls use.

/UnequipTinFoilHat

[Orbitus]

I just think it is hilarious, since the Ukraine transcript and whistleblower complaint, there hasn't been a lot of right wingers in here defending Trump.

[Dontrike]

Did you even listen to what he said? It does a good job of summarizing the perspective of "anti-liberal reactionaries" who've had their fill of all the unrelenting TDS horseshit.

The fact you actually used TDS seriously shows you nor Nunes should be taken seriously, especially Nunes. That guy would make himself look pretty at the drop of a hat if Trump told him to start sucking.

[silveth]

I normally don't reply to threads and most people will ignore it anyway, but anyway here it goes.

I dislike Trump. I didn't like him when he helped break the USFL. I thought he was a self aggrandizing bag of hot air all the years until his show. Then I thought he was just an total a** the total 5 minutes I saw of it.

But this stuff is boring on full blown crazy. I wait to see evidence and now with the media the last few years, I also wait a few days because things seem change on a dime and the lie sticks, but the correction gets ignored.

I mean, first they say the whistleblower heard the call and made a the report. Then it was, well he heard it from people that heard it directly. Now from the complaint, he heard it from people that may or may not have directly heard it, because half of what he said was wrong based on the transcript and the statements of Trump (wouldn't exactly be trustworthy by itself) and others in the government and the Ukraine president. At a certain point, if everyone directly involved says there was no pressure, you either say they are all liars, or maybe we are jumping the shark a little bit on how big a deal this is.

Another quarter was based on media reports...hmmm, that does nothing for me because in last week, the media has printed statement after statement that has wrong and then had to update or retracted.

News - Ukraine source says they were told before the call that the talking about the investigation into Biden was a requirement to having the call.
Updated news - Next morning its fully retracted. The source said they never said it, the reporter updates and retracts it, admitting that it was a lie.

News - Trump pressured the Ukraine president 8 times to investigate Biden or no aid.
Update - Trump asked for a favor to investigate the 2016 meddling (The same thing that Democrat lawmakers sent in a document to the Ukraine government earlier in the year. But yes Trump included after that asking for them to investigate the Biden situation, where he applied pressure to have a prosecutor fired that was investigating the company his son had worked for.

Notice I didn't say Biden committed a crime, I just stated what Biden said he did. Do I find it questionable and a conflict of interest, maybe. Was it criminal, no idea. I would like to think it really wasn't, but I put nothing past any politician anymore.

News - Intel chief threatened to quit over complaint.
News update next day - Intel chief stated that was a lie.

News - Money was delayed to push for Biden investigation. Ukraine new before call.
News update - Money was delayed before call for a week. Ukraine states they found out about the delay a month after the call, the money was already released weeks ago, and no new investigation or contact from Barr/Rudy into Biden had been done as of yet.

News - Whistleblower complaint not given to congress like it has to be.
News Update - Because the complaint is based on all heresy, it is not buy law considered a Whitleblower complaint, so it has to flow through the legal process to be released.

News - Trump pushes Guiliani to work with Ukraine in the investigations.
News update - Ukraine has already talked with Guiliani months earlier and it was the Ukraine president that brought him up on the call saying how he liked him.

When kinds of things keep happening, even I start to see a overblown witch hunt over what seems to be nothing.

1: Clinton signed the investigation pack with Ukraine in the 90's for our governments to work together on investigations.
2: Barr has an open investigation into the 2016 meddling/DOJ/FBI whatever.

So continuing that while working with Ukaine would seem to be totally legal and kind of required since Ukraine seemed to be in the middle of half the story.

At this point I haven't moved my thoughts. I still dislike Trump and would like him to shut up, do the job he was elected to, and then go away, hopefully without breaking anything that can't be repaired. I now dislike the national democrats because they seem to have no plan but go after Trump in as many ways as possible and just hope something sticks.

Homeless issue - ignore - attack Trump
mental health issues - ignore - attack Trump
national debt - ignore - attack Trump
med prices - ignore - attack Trump
on and on.

You know a few months ago I was at least hearing the basic ideas of the democratic candidates, I was hoping that their plans would actually be fleshed out and heard, instead of pie in the sky statements. Instead we will hear the same thing we have been hearing for years - attack Trump.

Because the truth is.

If you hate Trump, this is huge and its time to get him because your glasses are tinted blue.
If you love Trump, this is a great thing and he was acting as a perfect president because your glasses are tinted red.

For the rest around the middle. This is nothing, a stupid distraction from the real issues in the country because our glasses are clear.

Its times like these when I agree with the small government people. Because if the Federal government was pushed back to just doing what it was suppose to be responsible for, then no matter who was in the white house, it wouldn't bother either side very much because it would have very little effect on our lives.

No one is probably going to read this, and if they do, I will get hate from either side. They will say how wrong I am on Trump, or the media screw ups, or whatever.

[pathora44]

I'm paraphrasing here, but I recall an op-ed last week when this started that in the intelligence community, if you whistleblow, you've already decided that your career is over, regardless of the outcome. You've chosen country over self. I'm sure the whistleblower already knows life after this is going to suck, and has at least prepared for it and weighed their options.

I think he is more saying that some fucking insane Trump cultist(s) are going to murder the whistleblower and his/her family. Remember Trump cultist and those like minded are the people who mail bombs to the media and Democrats and commit multiple mass shootings.

[Dontrike]

Nunes cited fact-based examples of numerous Dems committing 'as bad' or much worse "crimes" in regard to their attempts to influence a foreign nation for political purposes or for personal gain. Apparently you didn't actually listen to what he said.

So he committed a bunch of whataboutism? How does that take away from what Trump did?

[eschatological]

-snip-.

Do you have sources for these retractions and fact corrections? Cause I'd like to see them. Hint: Republican lawmakers saying the facts are wrong doesn't make them wrong.

The only one I've heard about is Maguire publicly denying that he threatened to resign, but I didn't hear that the story was retracted. Instead, it's (asserted to be) a case of an official saying one thing in public but making his true feelings known in private.


You seem to be playing the part of the "concerned neutral citizen" yet you seem to be wholeheartedly swallowing every Republican talking point on the issue.

[nonameelf]

Another quarter was based on media reports...hmmm, that does nothing for me because in last week, the media has printed statement after statement that has wrong and then had to update or retracted.

Um, did you look at why he included media reports? It's because they were public reports about where specific people were at specific times which backed up the other things he was saying.

He wasn't basing his whistleblowing on media reports. He was using it to back up his other statements. None of the reports mentioned are opinion or speculation. They're public accounts of where people were.

And the rest of your post is basically just saying we should ignore a credible whistleblower detailing crimes done by Trump because you personally don't care if the president breaks the law.

[Aurrora]

News - Whistleblower complaint not given to congress like it has to be.
News Update - Because the complaint is based on all heresy, it is not buy law considered a Whitleblower complaint, so it has to flow through the legal process to be released.

Hearsay, not heresy. Trump isn't really the God-Emperor of Mankind.

[DarkTZeratul]

Hearsay, not heresy. Trump isn't really the God-Emperor of Mankind.

Much as he may think otherwise.

[Levelfive]

I think he is more saying that some fucking insane Trump cultist(s) are going to murder the whistleblower and his/her family. Remember Trump cultist and those like minded are the people who mail bombs to the media and Democrats and commit multiple mass shootings.

I mean, it's both, especially once we find out that he donated to a democrat in 2006 or drives an electric car or once drank a latte. In his few remaining minutes as a private citizen, let's agree that, regardless, it doesn't change a single corrupt thing that Trump did, or the flurry of his underlings' cover ups that perpetually follow in his stench of a wake.

[Aurrora]

Do you have sources for these retractions and fact corrections? Cause I'd like to see them. Hint: Republican lawmakers saying the facts are wrong doesn't make them wrong.

The only one I've heard about is Maguire publicly denying that he threatened to resign, but I didn't hear that the story was retracted. Instead, it's (asserted to be) a case of an official saying one thing in public but making his true feelings known in private.


You seem to be playing the part of the "concerned neutral citizen" yet you seem to be wholeheartedly swallowing every Republican talking point on the issue.

This is the source of the claim that talking about Biden was a precondition for the call, with the retraction of the claim that Leschenkos, the person they got this information from, was an adviser to the President Volodymyr Zelenskiy.
Then there's this tweet by a Ukraine correspondent, who definitely is not a Republican lawmaker, saying that Leschenkos told him he did not tell ABC that talking about Biden was a precondition for the call.

[Mormolyce]

I predicted he would win

But he got fewer votes than his opponent, and you failed to predict that. You have to count that one as a failure on your part, prediction-wise.

- - - Updated - - -

I wouldn't say it's pedantic,it's a pretty big mistake.

The issue is that the DoJ is beholden to the United States Constitution and the laws, not the President. Obeying unlawful orders is still against the law.

I suppose it's a fair point in that had Trump instructed the Justice Department to do his dirty work for him, it would've been just as much a crime.

[DarkTZeratul]

I suppose it's a fair point in that had Trump instructed the Justice Department to do his dirty work for him, it would've been just as much a crime.

Instructing the DoJ to investigate your political opponents is reprehensible, but unless they're manufacturing dirt I don't think it'd actually be a crime.