Remember when Sylvannas shouted "For the Horde!" in the BfA trailer?

[Splenda]

Well, in a fight setting, you rally your soldiers, give them more furor to fight. She isn't stupid, just crazy.

[xZerocidex]

Morally Grey is a Blizz quote. Educate yourself.

The BFA trailer came out and people flipped shit at how dumb it was that we were blatantly retreading Garrosh Hellscream's storyline. They were worried that Sylvanas would turn from an Evil-But-Loyal antihero to Chaotic Stupid Plot Device the same way Garrosh did.

Blizzard told those people "Sylvanas' story would not end as just another raidboss". Blizz said her character would be "morally grey" where Horde players would have a reason to follow her instead of her being yet another clearcut evil plot device.

Morally Grey is not a quote from the Sylvanas playerbase.

Morally Grey is a broken promise from Blizzard.

But that'd expect everyone with a Sylvanas hateboner to go outside of Post-MoP WoW for information on characters and that's too much work when making another circlejerk thread on MMOC is so easy.

Play WC3 or read a synopsis. Read the books or a synopsis. Read the comics or a synopsis. Play through Northrend. Play Cataclysm Silverpine. Tell me Sylvanas always hated everyone but herself.

>Morally Grey is a Blizz quote. Educate yourself

No crap Sherlock, it's been the same exact bs excuse loyalists were using since the beginning of this whole xpac to justify her dumb behavior. The Irony of telling someone to educate themselves lmao.

>But that'd expect everyone with a Sylvanas hateboner to go outside of Post-MoP WoW for information on characters and that's too much work when making another circlejerk thread on MMOC is so easy.

Somehow I doubt this is worse than making a useless post pointing out the obvious.

[Flurryfang]

Changing the story is fine, but they obviously have no idea what they are trying to do with Sylvanas's arc. They don't know to write good characters anymore. Maybe Blizzard back in 2002 did, but not this one. They went with the easy route and made her Garrosh 2.0 after promising everyone that this is not the case.

I just think they are too hesitant to create chracters, that transition from good to bad. They did it really bad with Garrosh and they have done it really bad with Sylvanas. They lack the planning to slowly turn a character from good to bad, where the players/readers/viewers are slowly turned around for the character. I would have loved a story, where we slowly got more and more things that talked against sylvanas, up to a point where most people would have to say, that things were really going bad.
Like, what if Sylvanas had slowly started to install the Royal Dreadguard in Orgrimmar, making the security in the city more and more undead? What if we had opponets of her rule, people who questioned her, suddenly disappear from one patch to another? What if we had groups of Horde Soldiers talk openly in Orgrimmar about them being sent on wierd missions by Sylvanas or Nathanos to get artifacts, that seemed to had nothing to do with the war effort?

If we slowly were shown more and more elements of her abuse of power, of her making the best of use of her position as Warchief for her own needs, then we could all talk about that things are being foreshadowed.

[dunhildas]

Morally Grey btw...

Darkest shade of grey, so dark it's black with a hint of white..

[Kelathos]

You know, at some point I want a Warchief I can be proud of. Blizzard betrayed that desire with Garrosh. By having Vol'jin's first act be his own death. And by having Sylvanas be pure evil. I was rooting for her when she became Warchief. Now I am just sickened by her character. And by the game's story at large.

I really don't know if I can ever trust the next Warchief. To feel pride in them, or the Horde. It wouldn't make sense given the past 10 years of history.

[bullseyed]

I think the problem is, she spent ALL of her time as War-chief, basing her decisions, at least to the player, as to whats in the best interest for the Horde. She was always for the horde, always trying to lead them in the right direction, even in Legion. And it wasn't really until mid BFA did we, the player, get a hint of her really being up to no good. There were tiny drops, but she still showed loyalty to the Horde, and even to the Zandalari.

There has not been and is not any evidence of her "being up to no good".

Everyone eventually dies, and that includes every member of both the Horde and Alliance.

[Coldfire989]

Then turns around and says the Horde is nothing in the recent trailer?

Oof, that's gotta sting.

Nope not really but thanks for playing.

[bullseyed]

I also remember when Voljin said that no one would understand why the Loa spirits told him to chose her as warchief, and he still did it.
I also remember in Legion when Sylvanas cared for the Horde.

They failed her too many times and it became pointless to hope that they would get their shit together.

The loa chose Sylvanas because they needed someone to summon Mueh'zala to Azeroth and she was the only one strong enough to do so. She was also the only one who understood the threat Azeroth was facing.

- - - Updated - - -

Morally Grey btw...

Darkest shade of grey, so dark it's black with a hint of white..

English literature classes always seemed dumb. Try to figure out the hidden meaning of Lord of the Flies, try to figure out the subtext of The Great Gatsby.

But all you have to do is come on MMO-C and read comments like yours to see that apparently we don't teach well enough.

- - - Updated - - -

Well, in a fight setting, you rally your soldiers, give them more furor to fight. She isn't stupid, just crazy.

She is neither stupid nor crazy. You're just heavily ignorant of the lore in WoW, so you aren't able to understand what is happening.

One could say that the story is poorly written for there to be so many people who are incapable of understanding the story, but any story going on for over 15 years is going to have challenges for people jumping in at the last minute.

[THEORACLE64]

Welcome to the world of Warcraft, where Blizzard can change the story how they want and in an instant if they like it. Out of the window is character development, motives and foreshadowing.

Sylvanas shouting "For The Horde!" was out of character, yes - she's never really cared about the Horde. She's always been about herself first, the Foresaken second. It's as clear as day she's always had an ulterior motive since the since, and so playing the Horde and getting them to essentially start a war was part of that. The story hasn't changed at all, just that more layers have peeled off and she's finally revealing her true intentions. There's been plenty of foreshadowing since they started developing Sylvanas, in the sense she's always been manipulative and cunning - it's completely in character.

[bullseyed]

Remember when she said "in the end, death claims us all" in an early legion cinematic?

not really sure where i was going with this, just thought it was interesting how far in advance this story has been planned out. I have faith it'll come together in the end.

I mean, this has obviously been planned since Vanilla.

Events in the Zul'Farrak dungeon led to the prophecy: "battle would come, the fire would burn, and Mueh'zala would feast on all of Azeroth."

Mueh'zala is the loa of death. The formless, shapeshifting shadow in the Shadowlands who devours souls. He took Odyn's eye, he worked with the Burning Legion to bring war to Azeroth, he made a deal with Sylvanas to continue that war after the Burning Legion was defeated. He is coming to Azeroth in the wake of great battles and great fires. He will devour N'zoth and defeat the void. Even void lords die. Death is inevitable, hope is pointless, hope cannot defeat death.

This is what WoW has ALWAYS been about.

[vipers]

After sylvanas was on shadowlands she knows what is waiting him on there and that's why she does not care anyone else than him self

[bullseyed]

Changing the story is fine, but they obviously have no idea what they are trying to do with Sylvanas's arc. They don't know to write good characters anymore. Maybe Blizzard back in 2002 did, but not this one. They went with the easy route and made her Garrosh 2.0 after promising everyone that this is not the case.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection

[THEORACLE64]

There has not been and is not any evidence of her "being up to no good".

Everyone eventually dies, and that includes every member of both the Horde and Alliance.

Um, she made a deal with Azshara - that's pretty much the definition of "up to no good".

[bullseyed]

I feel like many are taking the outburst as a literal thing rather than "you are all nothing" in the greater scheme of things. Not saying she does things for the horde regardless... just that horde and factions and peoples hope are nothing in comparison to whatever the hungering darkness is. *shrug*

No matter what anyone in WoW does, they will eventually die. They will be tortured eternally in the shadowy void. Their soul is claimed and consumed by the loa of death.

The Horde is nothing, the Alliance is nothing, Thrall is nothing, Jaina is nothing. All of life on Azeroth is a sandcastle on a beach. High tide is coming. It will all be washed away.

The combined might of every living creature on Azeroth is not enough to prevent death. Everyone is weak.

- - - Updated - - -

Um, she made a deal with Azshara - that's pretty much the definition of "up to no good".

She exploited Azshara to gain her trust and doublecross her.

Either way, Azshara simply is, she is not good or evil, as such concepts are childish notions that don't actually exist.

[Kumorii]

No matter what anyone in WoW does, they will eventually die. They will be tortured eternally in the shadowy void. Their soul is claimed and consumed by the loa of death.

The Horde is nothing, the Alliance is nothing, Thrall is nothing, Jaina is nothing. All of life on Azeroth is a sandcastle on a beach. High tide is coming. It will all be washed away.

The combined might of every living creature on Azeroth is not enough to prevent death. Everyone is weak.

Exactly, considering the Loyalist ending I can't really interpret it any other way than we are all nothing in the scope of larger forces.

[bullseyed]

tbf she was never loyal to the horde. Go watch the Forsaken intro video on classic, the guy literally says it.

Part of the idea is that she became more loyal to it over time.

But that is also why she was so shocked when she was picked as warchief.

- - - Updated - - -

Stormheim was before she was the warcheif, IIRC. So not until the Broken Isles, which was after. She was doing her own thing then.

And Teldrassil, is a VERY Horde thing to do. 100%. I mean, Orcs came to this world and started clearing shit for themselves. Burning something they wanted to the ground is something the Horde would've done. Maybe not with Thrall or Voljin in charge. But Garrosh 100%, and Blackhand 100%.

Why would the orcs want Teldrassil?

Teldrassil was an unjust settlement build on Horde lands. The whole thing was less than 20 years old in WoW-time.

It was super insulting to the concept of the Horde that it was even allowed to exist for that long. If a "realistic" version of WoW, it would have been destroyed many years ago.

The best real-world comparison was the Russian missile base on Cuba during the Cold War. The Horde would never have let the Alliance build a fortress in their backyard.

[Splenda]

They failed her too many times and it became pointless to hope that they would get their shit together.

The loa chose Sylvanas because they needed someone to summon Mueh'zala to Azeroth and she was the only one strong enough to do so. She was also the only one who understood the threat Azeroth was facing.

- - - Updated - - -



English literature classes always seemed dumb. Try to figure out the hidden meaning of Lord of the Flies, try to figure out the subtext of The Great Gatsby.

But all you have to do is come on MMO-C and read comments like yours to see that apparently we don't teach well enough.

- - - Updated - - -



She is neither stupid nor crazy. You're just heavily ignorant of the lore in WoW, so you aren't able to understand what is happening.

One could say that the story is poorly written for there to be so many people who are incapable of understanding the story, but any story going on for over 15 years is going to have challenges for people jumping in at the last minute.

I am far from a late addition, and I do think she is crazy. Cold, calculating, and intelligent, but crazy and evil nonetheless.

[bullseyed]

Imagine a political leader rousing their followers for their own purpose.

Sylvanas merely used the Horde. She never cared for it.
Unless you count that time she was proud of being female in Before the Storm

In the 3rd cutscene she does say she never cared for the living, but she is probably more convincing herself of it than stating a truth.

But really, is a banshee capable of caring to begin with? Probably isn't really her fault.

Anyway, I think she did care about survival for her people (whether forsaken or horde) but once she became aware of a greater threat, she had to worry more about herself than them. And once she figured out a plan to beat that threat, she had to accept that she was going to lose those people.

- - - Updated - - -

I am far from a late addition, and I do think she is crazy. Cold, calculating, and intelligent, but crazy and evil nonetheless.

So working to defeat the old gods by any means necessary is crazy and evil?

Reminder that the alternative is the entire universe being destroyed by the void lords. You are advocating for the destruction of the entire WoW universe, and calling your position sane and good.

- - - Updated - - -

I remembers the Sylvanas sycophants on here talking about how she cares about the Horde, I told them it was nothing but a lie.

Well I won't gloat really, already triggered someone Tuesday....but...LOL.

Right, just like because you were once in love with your first girlfriend, you must still be.

Weird how like, stuff changes over time. Totes crazy. Life must have bad writers.

- - - Updated - - -

Gasp - could Sylvanas have lied to people?
She doesn’t have a history of treachery post-death does she?

Gasp, Sylvanas once supported the Horde, but after being let down over and over by their repeated failings and backstabbing she gave up on them? Like an abusive spouse she realized they were never going to change and stay stuck in their useless rut until they were destroyed by the void.

[Splenda]

So working to defeat the old gods by any means necessary is crazy and evil?

Okay, and how we do know that's what she is doing? It seems more to me that once she saw what her fate after death would be, she is more inclined to avoid death at all costs, including "borrowing" power where she shouldn't.

[Oakshana]

tbf she was never loyal to the horde. Go watch the Forsaken intro video on classic, the guy literally says it.

Fun Fact! The guy that does the racial intro voiceovers (until Pandarens that is), as well as the voice of Magtheridon and other bosses is Earl Boen.

He was the Psychiatrist in the first two Terminator movies.