frost, warrior, holy priest and combat need to be nerfed

[rohoz]

Every class. Gotta get out of the retail mindset and realize you are a class, not a spec. Certain classes are expected to fill certain roles. This isn't 2019, its 2004.

that changes nothing i said

[ellieg]

that changes nothing i said

Just seems really weird for you to talk abt specs when responding to a post that said "And still every class got a spot in the raid back then." Every class is brought to the raid.

[Yuugumo]

Okay here is my scoop.

Get to phase 6, Naxrammas and all that good jazz, wait for some time, then Roll out Classic+ which tackles game balance first and then maybe some more content that did not see it to the original Vanilla.

First though give people the chance to play classic as it was.

[rohoz]

Just seems really weird for you to talk abt specs when responding to a post that said "And still every class got a spot in the raid back then." Every class is brought to the raid.

Because at the end of the day, 9/10 times you're a warrior (tank) or warrior (dps).

It's amusing that you on one hand imply that warriors can be more than 1 role but 4 classes can only be 1 role.

[ellieg]

Because at the end of the day, 9/10 times you're a warrior (tank) or warrior (dps).

It's amusing that you on one hand imply that warriors can be more than 1 role but 4 classes can only be 1 role.

Yes each class has its roles they are expected to perform. Warriors are blessed and get 2.

Its amusing that someone says all classes are brought to raids and you respond saying certain specs arent. Which "changes nothing" he said. Then I reply that all classes ARE brought and its abt class identity not spec. Then you tell me that what I said changes nothing lol

[Xath]

Okay here is my scoop.

Get to phase 6, Naxrammas and all that good jazz, wait for some time, then Roll out Classic+ which tackles game balance first and then maybe some more content that did not see it to the original Vanilla.

First though give people the chance to play classic as it was.

Do not screw with class balance more content fine class balance no.

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Because at the end of the day, 9/10 times you're a warrior (tank) or warrior (dps).

It's amusing that you on one hand imply that warriors can be more than 1 role but 4 classes can only be 1 role.

I assume you mean the pure dps classes.

[Yuugumo]

Do not screw with class balance more content fine class balance no.

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I assume you mean the pure dps classes.

Why not screwing with class balance? THere is definitely room for improvement. I am not talking about class niches, I am talkig about number fixing. I dont want the game to remain 80% Warrior, Mage, Rogue.

[Xath]

Why not screwing with class balance? THere is definitely room for improvement. I am not talking about class niches, I am talkig about number fixing. I dont want the game to remain 80% Warrior, Mage, Rogue.

I do not want "number fixing" leave balance the way it was. It was set that way for a reason also lucky for you the game isn't 80% mage warrior and rogue since healers are needed.

[Sevarin]

I dunno, being a ret/enhance/feral healer doesn't *really* mean you have a spot in the raid, does it?

my guild had both enhance shamans and feral druids that did nothing but dps, we were the top horde guild on the server. the top alliance guild had at least one ret pally, which had hand of ragnaros.

oddly enough, they had spots in raids as the role of each of their respective specs. we still cleared everything other than naxx, so did alliance. sometimes... its actually about getting people with a brain, rather than someone without one thats playing a better class/spec.

[AceofH]

Okay here is my scoop.

Get to phase 6, Naxrammas and all that good jazz, wait for some time, then Roll out Classic+ which tackles game balance first and then maybe some more content that did not see it to the original Vanilla.

First though give people the chance to play classic as it was.

If classic+ becomes a thing it needs to be on separate servers.

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Why not screwing with class balance? THere is definitely room for improvement. I am not talking about class niches, I am talkig about number fixing. I dont want the game to remain 80% Warrior, Mage, Rogue.

And it isnt. If you looked at the census data the top 3 classes are warrior mage priest and thats 43% of the pop playing one third of the classes.
To put that in comparison, the top 4 classes in retail compose 42% of the population, playing one third of the classes.

Besides. Lets go hypothetical. How much dps ideally should a hybrid do compared to a pure with vanilla class design.

Lets say in mythical balance land mages, locks, hunters, and rogues did 1,000 dps in bis gear with full raid buffs.

How much should a hybrid dps do in bis gear with full raid buffs?

[ThatsOurEric]

People wanted classic, they're getting classic. And all the "balance" that comes with it.

This guy here gets it.

[wholol]

https://classic.warcraftlogs.com/zon...#class=Healers

At first I thought you were attempting to link some form of comparison of hybrid dps with that above, then after remembering your title did I understand that you actually meant to link the healing charts, you do realize the link is for healer "damage" right?

Here's the actual hps charts: https://classic.warcraftlogs.com/zon...000#metric=hps.

[Mukind]

Paladins still best healers in the game bois

Simmer down

Pity the other healers because they don't get mana back on crit. The poor bastards. It is OP tho so we should talk about the Illumination talent and why it makes paladins so much better at PvE healing than the other classes.

And this is 1.12 with 1.1 content so there is no video here..

[Daffan]

Balance is boring, it's imo what ruined retail WoW (or one of the factors) and turned it into an esport oriented game where everyone can do anything and classes barely bring anything unique to the table any more. All classes are made according to the same principles having filler abilities, a resource dump, an oh-shit button, some sort of heal, etc. Everything feels so methodical and scripted and the RPG aspects of the game are completely lost.

For me, I am totally fine with pure specs outperforming hybrids by a large margin. Hybrids get to raid because of the utility they bring and how they buff others, not for their own damage. In this way, classes have more freedom of how they can be designed and don't need to adhere to balance that makes everything feel the same. As an example, in Classic, I have a hard time deciding on what I want to be because literally every class brings something else to the game and it lets you experience the game in a totally different way.

As a closing remark, if you feel that you want to be good at dealing damage, roll a pure DPS class instead of calling for nerfs. I personally love having the choice and feel it makes having alts more compelling as well.

But this is wrong.

They don't get to raid.

Nobody is bringing 50% or more of the specs in the game.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

for the 50th time, this is NOT OSRS. "someone else did it" is not really a good argument. Generally, 80%+ is required in these situations, and the classic playerbase cant even decide if the new water model is acceptable. How do you limit the poll to classic only without discriminating? What is stopping "retail" players from ruining these polls?

Make it level 60 chars only.

OSRS is a good example for both the playerbase and developer being happy - its also a precedence. Its folly to pretend like it doesn't exist.

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"What did people wanted from Classic"

It depends on the person.

1) Person who never played Vanilla may want to experience.....actual Vanilla
2) Person who already played Vanilla may or may not want changes

People who want changes are 1/3 of the people who want to play CLassic. Maybe even less.

*Citation needed*

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I did. It doesn't matter whether or not I do. You gonna continue being useless now or naw?

Please answer the question - your inability/fear to do so is a good enough answer I guess. You can be ignored.

[rohoz]

Make it level 60 chars only.

OSRS is a good example for both the playerbase and developer being happy - its also a precedence. Its folly to pretend like it doesn't exist.

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*Citation needed*

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Please answer the question - your inability/fear to do so is a good enough answer I guess. You can be ignored.

why? So your biases can guide your response? It doesn't matter. Do i play live? Classic? both? doesn't matter.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

why? So your biases can guide your response? It doesn't matter. Do i play live? Classic? both? doesn't matter.

Please answer the question - your inability/fear to do so is a good enough answer I guess. You can be ignored.

[Daffan]

This is the /thread right here. No need to discuss further.

Classic is as close to vanilla as you can come and wanting to change it isnt the vanilla-experience anymore.

Also.. PLEASE stop making stupid threads like this crying over balance and stuff that isnt as "good" as in BfA.

It's not even a vanilla experience though.

They should have just given everyone 10,000 gold since it's so easy already compared to what people experienced (subjective experience for most was much harder) back in the day, why not go the extra step?

[Appelgren]

It's not even a vanilla experience though.

Imagine being this disoriented... its basically the EXACT same thing except for some minor adjustments.
People still convincing themselfs that vanilla was super hard and hardcore. Holy fk...

[Daffan]

Imagine being this disoriented... its basically the EXACT same thing except for some minor adjustments.
People still convincing themselfs that vanilla was super hard and hardcore. Holy fk...

You don't even know what experience means.