(Poll - Horde players only pls) Thoughts on post- 8.2.5 Horde ?

[Mehrunes]

I love watching the loyalists being marched through the streets in chains too much to be mad at some of the decisions made by Team Traitor along the way. It was all worth it in the end. Hail Baine and Anduin, I guess!

My biggest complaint is, without Saurfang, Sylvanas, or Gallywix's mech by the end of the expansion when azerite is inevitably depowered, we are majorly at a loss for badass powerful Horde characters.

You have your Baine.

Could we just have Baine without Anduin in the same sentence?

How would that even work?

[Kyphael]

Could we just have Baine without Anduin in the same sentence?

They're joined at the hip now in the eyes of Baine's critics.

[Yuugumo]

Thrall, no longer shaman but a warrior, wearing a two hander version of the Doomhammer and the Doomplate too.

[HoodKazekage]

What kinda biased poll is this... good job OP /facepalm. Sylvanas fanboys can never say baine's name without mentioning anduin i see. It's not like there are other factors right..

[TickTickTick]

Terrible poll, this reeks of bait from miles away.

[Super Dickmann]

They're joined at the hip now in the eyes of Baine's critics.

I take offense to that one. I've been saying Baine is an Alliance proxy since Tides of War.

[mickybrighteyes]

You have your Baine.

But Baine doesn't do anything except pass responsibility and run for the blue banners.

How would that even work?

People don't like Bainduin so maybe we should push for Baina? no actually lets save Baina Bloodmoore for a better character arc <.<

[GreenJesus]

I take offense to that one. I've been saying Baine is an Alliance proxy since Tides of War.

We'll see what happens when the Kul'tirans open a mcdonalds down the street and they need cow meat. Maybe Baine wont be so friendly to the alliance then.or he will go "we deserve to be eaten. Let's slaughter ourselves to save them the trouble."

[Shakana]

They're joined at the hip now in the eyes of Baine's critics.

Well i ignored the Anduin and put a vote. I like horde cows. Thunderbluff is still one of my favorite places.

[Rumred]

For the dark lady or I would take Cata/Early MoP garrosh.

[Loveletters]

Who the fuck even cares anymore. This game's story really just needs some sort of reboot to even be remotely interesting. Juggle the factions and create new ones or something, anything is better than this shit.

That might be what they’re doing. Obviously it could go any number of ways but it does seem plausible there will be major changes but there just needed to be a catalyst.

[Mehrunes]

They're joined at the hip now in the eyes of Baine's critics.

More like the back of Baine's skin and the sole of Anduin's foot, given as he roleplays an animal rug of his.

What kinda biased poll is this... good job OP /facepalm. Sylvanas fanboys can never say baine's name without mentioning anduin i see. It's not like there are other factors right..

True, his Alliance sycophancy doesn't center around just Anduin. There's also Jaina.

But Baine doesn't do anything except pass responsibility and run for the blue banners.

Hey, that can be seen as a power.

[Vodenbog]

@Super Dickmann

The story of Warcraft world began to fall down the hill with the launch of World of Warcraft. Mistakes were made for profit and the lore was dying ever slowly. Blizzard has decided to speed things up a little. At this point, I have accepted the ending of The Frozen Throne as the canon ending.

[Fetus Rex]

I dislike Sylvanas but I will follow her. I were forced to break the Blood Oath with Garrosh. It felt dirty, disgusting even. Never again. My honor is called loyalty.

[Rendark]

The only good part of the horde left is Gallywix and his goblins.

[Super Dickmann]

@Super Dickmann

The story of Warcraft world began to fall down the hill with the launch of World of Warcraft. Mistakes were made for profit and the lore was dying ever slowly. Blizzard has decided to speed things up a little. At this point, I have accepted the ending of The Frozen Throne as the canon ending.

While there's still elements of the franchise I enjoy, this is basically my jumping off point when it comes to the factions, or rather faction. I'm kind of surprised at myself how mildly it annoys me, save for the Forsaken, which goes to show how thoroughly it's got me uninvested in what was, for the longest time and despite their best efforts, the heart of their franchise and what are my favorite races.

Even moments I enjoy in isolation, like Saurfang realizing he's a hypocrite and the incoherence of his code while improving him as a character are another spike through the heart of an orcish identity that's already been through. In the span of one conversation Saurfang essentially describes an interesting part of orcish culture, which renders them distinct from humans - identifies it as a common part of the Horde, even if not a laudable one and then has it dismissed by Anduin, pushing him towards adopting a non-code of generic goodness that the pro-Azeroth position actually is. It's completely empty - it's just niceness, with the only distinction left being purely cosmetic additions. The abruptness of the 180 on the part of the population and the patent illogic of the Horde's turn following Sylvanas' departure is symptomatic of the same problem, and that's that even when the writers are doing something right by actually showing the on-the-ground worm's eye perspective, some of it quite good, the cancerous heart of the story, that is that it seeks to remove all conflict and differentiation and effectively does so by the end means that the effort is wasted.

All this done as much in service of gameplay as in service of a character-based narrative that's completely left the world behind. The inconsistency in troop numbers and population opinions across patches goes to show how everything in the world exists to serve the character drama of a dwindling number of mostly very bland participants. This has been more and more the case with every expansion, mind, but in BFA reaches its peak.

[Vodenbog]

While there's still elements of the franchise I enjoy, this is basically my jumping off point when it comes to the factions, or rather faction. I'm kind of surprised at myself how mildly it annoys me, save for the Forsaken, which goes to show how thoroughly it's got me uninvested in what was, for the longest time and despite their best efforts, the heart of their franchise and what are my favorite races.

Even moments I enjoy in isolation, like Saurfang realizing he's a hypocrite and the incoherence of his code while improving him as a character are another spike through the heart of an orcish identity that's already been through. In the span of one conversation Saurfang essentially describes an interesting part of orcish culture, which renders them distinct from humans - identifies it as a common part of the Horde, even if not a laudable one and then has it dismissed by Anduin, pushing him towards adopting a non-code of generic goodness that the pro-Azeroth position actually is. It's completely empty - it's just niceness, with the only distinction left being purely cosmetic additions. The abruptness of the 180 on the part of the population and the patent illogic of the Horde's turn following Sylvanas' departure is symptomatic of the same problem, and that's that even when the writers are doing something right by actually showing the on-the-ground worm's eye perspective, some of it quite good, the cancerous heart of the story, that is that it seeks to remove all conflict and differentiation and effectively does so by the end means that the effort is wasted.

All this done as much in service of gameplay as in service of a character-based narrative that's completely left the world behind. The inconsistency in troop numbers and population opinions across patches goes to show how everything in the world exists to serve the character drama of a dwindling number of mostly very bland participants. This has been more and more the case with every expansion, mind, but in BFA reaches its peak.

Posts like this remind me why you are by far the best critic of Warcraft I have ever seen in my life.

Granted you did, just as I have, started journey into Warcraft world with W2 and I always suspected this made a great difference on how people see the lore and how the lore should be developed. I also think you knew probably back in the Mists that the Unification thing will inevitably happen and the factions and the races will become one big homogeneous gelatin mass of fundamentally nothing substantial.

[Kyphael]

More like the back of Baine's skin and the sole of Anduin's foot, given as he roleplays an animal rug of his.

This made me laugh harder than it should have. =(

- - - Updated - - -

Well i ignored the Anduin and put a vote. I like horde cows. Thunderbluff is still one of my favorite places.

I voted third faction because it's still a pipe dream.

- - - Updated - - -

I take offense to that one. I've been saying Baine is an Alliance proxy since Tides of War.

All right, fine. "They've joined at the hip in the eyes of Baine's critics since Tides of War***"

[Super Dickmann]

All right, fine. "They've joined at the hip in the eyes of Baine's critics since Tides of War***"

That's better. Carry on.

@Vodenbog

Thanks, but you're giving me a bit too much credit re: Mists. With Mists I was actively pissed, but with Sylvanas still in the Horde and very little organisational change having happened I was working off the assumption that they would always remain unwilling to shake up the core gameplay systems of Alliance and Horde. If you go back through my posts in the early parts of this expansion you'll find I was still working off of this with BFA - I expected it to be Mists, hoped that it wasn't, but didn't expect it to actually do what Mists wasn't able to do, which is fully bring in the Unifaction. But they did do it and now the factions are basically an unidentifiable mass of generic good guys with superficial aesthetic differences. Not even that as regards the blood elves, nightborne and soon undead Horde-side.

The thing is, this is just as fragile as it was in WC3 and there's a reason it was ditched after WC3 - it's boring because there's no conflict. All the writers really need to do is remember Tyrande still has an axe to grind and go at it. Do I think it'll happen? Not any time soon, no, I think we're stuck with the Unifaction for a long while yet, but I don't think they'll leave this well behind forever, they know where the nostalgia is at. They sold this as a faction war because they knew that if they pulled away the curtain and told people what it really was, the backlash would be bigger and sooner.

[Wildberry]

Wait, the Horde exists post-8.2.5? I'm not playing fake WoW Retail right now, but I had heard the big feature of this patch was getting rid of the faction wall??

I mean, I can only assume that's what they've done considering the absolute nonsense that I saw during those awful cinematics. Would one of those 24 (lol) pro-modern Horde voters who are enthusiastic with what's gone on mind answering a few questions?

1.) What is the reason for the Horde existing as a separate geopolitical entity at this point?
2.) How is the Horde, with its current cast, going to be able to interact with likely future plot elements?
3.) Are you at all confident that Blizzard will amend the depleted cast? If so, why?
4.) Are you at all confident that Blizzard will amend the decimation of various racial identities? If so, why?