[Speculation and spoilers] Sylvanas and Death

[bullseyed]

(Note the capital D there, so she's using it as a pronoun, referring to an entity, not a concept or state of being.)

That isn't what a pronoun is. The rest of your post is laughably incorrect.

If Sylvanas is in fact serving Yogg

The old gods are made by the void lords, the void lords are made by the void gods.

Void is a different school of magic from Death.

Yogg has nothing to do with Death. His claims of being the god of death were metaphorical, not literal. The old gods killed millions, but not in the name of Death.

[Unholyground]

Mueh'Zala is most likely the Death God, or one of them.

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That isn't what a pronoun is.

Ya, someone doesn't understand how Titles or Names work lol.

[bullseyed]

Yogg-Saron is back at it In Ulduar although it's "only" his whispers and he's properly gonna be the one that is pulling the string right now. C'Thun hasn't done anything since classic and Y'Shaarj is dead.

Yogg and C'Thun are confirmed dead by Blizzard years ago at this point.

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I think that this 'Death' is going to be some sort of Death aligned deity, not yogg-saron. I have a hard time thinking the death aligned baddie blizz has been hinting so long is a foe we've fought before, and one that's void aligned on the chart as an old god anyway.

I mean OP doesn't even know old gods are void aligned. We probably shouldn't be bumping this thread.

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My god.. can we stop with ambiguous names of "death" and "void" already? I'm fucking sick and tired of it. I just want a character with a name.

The name of the god of death is Mueh'zala.

In Zul'Farrak he said he would return to devour the world when the great battle had ended and the fire had burned.

Seems pretty obvious when re-read during BFA.

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My current working theory is that Sylvanas isn't actually serving anyone - as in she's not the servant of some greater entity like a "God of Death" or a Death-related entity. I think she serves herself.

Sure, but she serves herself by making deals. To make a deal she has to do certain things for the entity on the other end. The main deal she has is with Death.

She also has a deal with Azshara/N'zoth, but she plans to double-cross them when she finishes summoning Death to Azeroth.

[Traveler Voltin]

Hakkar the soulflayer sounds like a death god to me.

[GreenJesus]

Yogg and C'Thun are confirmed dead by Blizzard years ago at this point.

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I mean OP doesn't even know old gods are void aligned. We probably shouldn't be bumping this thread.

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The name of the god of death is Mueh'zala.

In Zul'Farrak he said he would return to devour the world when the great battle had ended and the fire had burned.

Seems pretty obvious when re-read during BFA.

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Sure, but she serves herself by making deals. To make a deal she has to do certain things for the entity on the other end. The main deal she has is with Death.

She also has a deal with Azshara/N'zoth, but she plans to double-cross them when she finishes summoning Death to Azeroth.

Except Bwonsamdi doesn't know who it is and you would think Bwon would know/recognize a loa's meddling.

[Kyphael]

Mueh'Zala is most likely the Death God, or one of them.

Isn't Mueh'Zala essentially on Bwosambi's level? He's just the Loa of Death the Sandfury Trolls worships, like Bwosambi is the Loa of Death to the Zandalari.

[Unholyground]

Except Bwonsamdi doesn't know who it is and you would think Bwon would know/recognize a loa's meddling.

Mueh'zala is their name for it, it doesn't mean that is it's true name.

[bullseyed]

I have three theories of who's this Death entity that Sylvanas refer to:

1) Helya = We know that Sylvanas and her had a bargain. An IE quest reveal that she's alive and growing in power. Now we know, thanks to the cutscene of the Loyalist, that Sylvanas is been feeding a "hungering darkness" with the souls of the fallen. Maybe this is the way that Helya's power is growing up. In return, maybe Helya is empowering Sylvanas. That would explain her new and unknown powers.

2) A New Player = A "Death Lord", as the Voids Lords for the Void, and the Naaru for the Light. A new godlike entity that contact Sylvanas sometime between her suicide and her rise as Warchief, and promise her immortality and power in exchange of souls.

3) Sylvanas herlself = In the Three sisters comic, Sylvanas says: At the end, they will serve Death, they will serve me. Across Legion and BfA, Sylvanas is looking the way to "Master Death". Sylvanas is a highly narcissistic person. Wouldn't be weird that she is looking the way to ascend into a God-like-being of Death, in the realm of the living, to avoid the horrors and the final destiny that await her on the Shadowlands.

None of these are correct. The god of death has been named by the trolls and described by Odyn and others.

We haven't seen the god of death in game, but we know he is a formless shapeshifter who appears most often as a shadow and has not been able to enter our world. He's stuck in the shadowlands.

Sylvanas wants to be the avatar of death the same way Azshara wants to be the queen of N'zoth's empire. We don't know how that is going to work out, but it is possible the god of death will take on Sylvanas's body, similar to how Arthas was influenced via his helmet. That allows Sylvanas to "become" death, despite not being death.

Or she just wants to be queen and maybe death will go along with that and maybe not.

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Isn't Mueh'Zala essentially on Bwosambi's level? He's just the Loa of Death the Sandfury Trolls worships, like Bwosambi is the Loa of Death to the Zandalari.

No.

Bwonsamdi is the ferryman who takes souls to hell. Hades is the god of hell. If you want to borrow from the Greeks.

Basically Bwonsamdi is an intern who gets coffee for the CEO.

[Friendlyimmolation]

Isn't Mueh'Zala essentially on Bwosambi's level? He's just the Loa of Death the Sandfury Trolls worships, like Bwosambi is the Loa of Death to the Zandalari.

There are theories that Meuh'zala is the nameless, shapeless shadow that took one of Odyn's eyes in payment for looking into the nightmarish shadowlands to learn how to make Valkyr.

Valkyr saved Sylvanas, by extension Meuh'zala is the one who tells them to save Sylvanas or something.

Sylvanas is actually an unwitting pawn in breaking the supreme death loa into Azeroth or something idk. He's either upset about the dead old gods infringing on his territory, or has gone nuts after the shadowlands started to have the void has breached his domains.

Sylvanas is going to kill the last old god and cleanse the shadowlands in exchange for her own personal pocket in the shadowlands.


new crackpot theory.

[Unholyground]

Isn't Mueh'Zala essentially on Bwosambi's level? He's just the Loa of Death the Sandfury Trolls worships, like Bwosambi is the Loa of Death to the Zandalari.

As of right now all that we know is that it is referred to as Death and is a shapeless shadowy figure.

[bullseyed]

Except Bwonsamdi doesn't know who it is and you would think Bwon would know/recognize a loa's meddling.

Right because no one ever lies.

And Bwonsamdi's boss certainly wouldn't kill him if he outed him, right?

That and Bwonsamdi isn't omnipotent. His "boss" does lots of things he doesn't know about.

[Aucald]

Sure, but she serves herself by making deals. To make a deal she has to do certain things for the entity on the other end. The main deal she has is with Death.

She also has a deal with Azshara/N'zoth, but she plans to double-cross them when she finishes summoning Death to Azeroth.

No, I mean more that she's stepped into a sort of vacancy left over from a being like Arthas, she's not serving a Death entity as much as she's setting herself up as the Death entity - trying to turn herself into a demigoddess of Death as opposed to serving an existing entity in that role. To that end, she's allied herself with N'Zoth because she plans on using its rampage across Azeroth to feed herself Death energy, as it kills Horde and Alliance soldiers and heroes she will grow more powerful with their sacrifices accordingly.

[bullseyed]

We've seen quite a few of those over the years though. Would the power of a fallen Naaru really be something outside of Jaina's sphere of not only expertise, but knowledge in general?

N'aaru switch between light and void, not death.

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No, I mean more that she's stepped into a sort of vacancy left over from a being like Arthas, she's not serving a Death entity as much as she's setting herself up as the Death entity - trying to turn herself into a demigoddess of Death as opposed to serving an existing entity in that role. To that end, she's allied herself with N'Zoth because she plans on using its rampage across Azeroth to feed herself Death energy, as it kills Horde and Alliance soldiers and heroes she will grow more powerful with their sacrifices accordingly.

I mean we know about gods for light, void, and life.

There are almost certainly gods for death, fel/chaos, and arcane/order.

And given the Mueh'zala prophecy specifically mentions feasting on the souls of all after a great battle and a fire, I'm going with no coincidences. We did just have a great battle and a fire, afterall. Probably one more great battle against N'zoth in the next raid.

[Kyphael]

No.

Bwonsamdi is the ferryman who takes souls to hell. Hades is the god of hell. If you want to borrow from the Greeks.

Basically Bwonsamdi is an intern who gets coffee for the CEO.

So Bwosambi is Charon? Because Bwosambi is described as...

Bwonsamdi (pronounced "BWAN-sam-dee")[3] is a powerful loa that controls the spirits of the dead, primarily of trolls. Bwonsamdi's temple is the Necropolis, located in Nazmir on Zandalar. The spirits of all trolls on Zandalar go to him upon death,[4] and he brings the spirits of any who worship him into his realm, the Other Side.[5] Bwonsamdi grows more powerful the more souls are in his care.[6]

It's a little confusing. Charon doesn't get stronger the more souls he ferries to Hades. Hades gets stronger.

[Mehrunes]

N'aaru switch between light and void, not death.

What does that have to do with what I said? I'm not the one making theories about Sylvanas' powers coming from a darkened Naaru.

[Kyphael]

As of right now all that we know is that it is referred to as Death and is a shapeless shadowy figure.

Well Death itself in the real world is represented as The Grim Reaper, a cloaked shadowy figure with a scythe, so that's not too far off. It'll be interesting if they give it a corporal appearance and name. We already have so many "Death Gods/Loas" running around. I recall at one point, The Lich King likened himself The God of Death. Yogg-saron too.

[Zulkhan]

Isn't Mueh'Zala essentially on Bwosambi's level? He's just the Loa of Death the Sandfury Trolls worships, like Bwosambi is the Loa of Death to the Zandalari.

Mueh'zala is the true Loa of Death. Bwonsamdi is mistakenly referred to as the Loa of Death but in truth he's the Loa of Graves, Mueh'zala is the actual Loa of Death.

Also, for the most part Loa have no specific tribes, each of them fill specific roles in the natural order and are universally worshipped (even though a certain tribe may indeed favor one Loa over another or others).

[Kyphael]

There are theories that Meuh'zala is the nameless, shapeless shadow that took one of Odyn's eyes in payment for looking into the nightmarish shadowlands to learn how to make Valkyr.

Valkyr saved Sylvanas, by extension Meuh'zala is the one who tells them to save Sylvanas or something.

Sylvanas is actually an unwitting pawn in breaking the supreme death loa into Azeroth or something idk. He's either upset about the dead old gods infringing on his territory, or has gone nuts after the shadowlands started to have the void has breached his domains.

Sylvanas is going to kill the last old god and cleanse the shadowlands in exchange for her own personal pocket in the shadowlands.


new crackpot theory.

Holy shit, best one I've read yet. When Death cleanses the Shadowlands of Old God corruption, I suppose the last thing standing in its way is The Light, then?

[bullseyed]

So Bwosambi is Charon? Because Bwosambi is described as...

Bwonsamdi (pronounced "BWAN-sam-dee")[3] is a powerful loa that controls the spirits of the dead, primarily of trolls. Bwonsamdi's temple is the Necropolis, located in Nazmir on Zandalar. The spirits of all trolls on Zandalar go to him upon death,[4] and he brings the spirits of any who worship him into his realm, the Other Side.[5] Bwonsamdi grows more powerful the more souls are in his care.[6]

It's a little confusing. Charon doesn't get stronger the more souls he ferries to Hades. Hades gets stronger.

It says right there, he brings spirits to the other side. He doesn't rule the other side, or even live there. He's an uber driver.

He has a boss, his boss likely is the god of death, and that boss grants him power. It's a pyramid scheme. Sword logic. He gives souls to his boss, his boss gets stronger, he gets a % cut of the new power.

[Kyphael]

Mueh'zala is the true Loa of Death. Bwonsamdi is mistakenly referred to as the Loa of Death but in truth he's the Loa of Graves, Mueh'zala is the actual Loa of Death.

I kind of get it, but talk about splitting hairs. I know the Greeks had Gods for everything too, but Graves is a pretty strong analogy for Death. Oh well, Blizzard needs lots of known boss names to pad out future raids.

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It says right there, he brings spirits to the other side. He doesn't rule the other side, or even live there. He's an uber driver.

He has a boss, his boss likely is the god of death, and that boss grants him power. It's a pyramid scheme. Sword logic. He gives souls to his boss, his boss gets stronger, he gets a % cut of the new power.

Fair enough.