Does WoW lack opportunities to help others?

[Powerogue]

I think it has those opportunities, but the sheer convenience available now in ability to find said people and get their help negates most of the communication and actual bond-forming that used to occur. You can group with 39 total strangers, kill a tough boss, and separate within a single minute.

I still savor the moments I can find, like helping out this guy who didn't have flying yet with his WQs using my 2 seater mount.

[Shakana]

Eheh im glad you are having fun.

Atm i'm waiting patiently for the quest of Legion Archaeology to go Nar'thalas Academy and get the title "Headmistress/Headmaster" and the Hat.
I set up goals of stuff i didn't do old expansions. That's something i have been doing as well since Legion on MoP, i know now MoP back and Forward but i didn't play the expansion. I did all the achievements i could do there.

I'm completing Loremaster as well. You know. Just small stuff no one gives a damn, but i do xD My gear this expansion is always around "medium" i have not being trying hard at all.

[Dilbon]

There should be something that is achievable only by helping others. For example, after you get your curve achievement the next thing to do would be to help a number of people get theirs for a reward like a mount. This would lead to raids actually wanting people with no achievement and thus free carries.

In Dark Age of Camelot there was a thing called master level xp and the easiest way to gain it was helping others finish their various master level quests. People were all the time looking for opportunities to help because it would benefit them.

[Super Kami Dende]

The shithouse game design has the possibility to create something beautiful out of the community.
The best games ive ever played had this shithouse game design...and were beautiful...

Gems of the past...lost in time.

The reason they are lost in the past is because they had shithouse design and people stopped playing them.

[Shaetha]

WoW lacks a ton of player to player intimacy that other MMO's have which is why I think you don't see people getting buddy-buddy with other players, there's just no point.


In FF14 there's a ton of opportunities to help people out but in WoW not so much because the game let's us be incredibly self-sufficient starting from level 1. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing, it's just different game design and I don't think I would change it either because there's nothing more annoying than needing someone's help but no one is available so you just don't do anything until there is someone nearby.

the literal only thing ffxiv does differently is forcing you to do dungeons for progress. Even then, people don't talk any more than they do in WoW. It's not different. Your perception is different.

[Big Thanks]

There should be something that is achievable only by helping others. For example, after you get your curve achievement the next thing to do would be to help a number of people get theirs for a reward like a mount. This would lead to raids actually wanting people with no achievement and thus free carries.

In Dark Age of Camelot there was a thing called master level xp and the easiest way to gain it was helping others finish their various master level quests. People were all the time looking for opportunities to help because it would benefit them.

Interesting. So Dark Age of Camelot had this.
This is an idea i would love to see in WoW...for selfish reasons i must confess...because i love this activity and there is none on current market. (that i know of)

[Lex Icon]

there's plenty of opportunities to help eachothers out.
granted a lot of it can be pretty automated like addons calling out rare spawns in general chat but i still think that counts.

and if you're active in a guild i'm sure you'll find people help eachothers out plenty. probably even more so now with this community things that i personally haven't bothered to check out yet.

[Big Thanks]

The reason they are lost in the past is because they had shithouse design and people stopped playing them.

Well...those games created a "baby" addicted to said game design that baby is me

[Sharby]

the literal only thing ffxiv does differently is forcing you to do dungeons for progress. Even then, people don't talk any more than they do in WoW. It's not different. Your perception is different.

Not true, just off the top of my head:

Dungeons as you said.

FATEs being mostly un-soloable due to level sync.

Aether Currents

Crafters being heavily sought after

Mentor System

The fact that the game marks players as new/lets you know its their first time doing an instance

The fact that stat scaling between expansions is a lot smaller which reduces the amount of old content you can solo quickly.


And a lot more, the point is all of the above are opportunities to help people where it matters. Which encourages people to be helpful because there's a stark difference in progress when someone is helping you vs when you're doing it alone, so most players can empathize with someone asking for help and will be more inclined to help them for if nothing else, to avoid doing it alone as well. WoW doesn't have any of that because often times more people = stunted progress due to potential mistakes/ppl being slow. As long as you're capable and have the right gear you can roll over most non-instanced challenges in WoW no problem in a time-efficient manner, even WANTED quests.

Which again, isn't a BAD THING, in fact for most players I'd say its good because it means you don't need to wait on anyone. But as a result nobody really looks out for anyone because the mentality is that you should be able to do it on your own which is true.

I've played both games extensively, and I like both just about equally, but it is incredibly dishonest to say WoW's community holds a candle to FF's socially because it really just doesn't. Which is due to both the players and how both games are designed.

[Sansnom]

Due to the game's design, does WoW lack opportunities to help others?

For "help" to be needed there must be a "dependency" on others to help you.
But there is little dependency on others in the current game, on the lowest/medium level of play. Is there not?

My question to you is:
["Does WoW need more opportunities to help others? More dependency on others?"

There used to be. I recall there use to be group quests. Dungeons also required others to help and still does.

Group quests were removed because there were no helps available. Personal experience during the start of WoTLK, there were people around. Quite a few infact. Finding someone for group quests were not that difficult. Fast forward 1 years playing on alts. No help were available.

If they decides to put back group related content, they need to address the issue of finding a group for such content.

There is a reason why LFD and LFR exist.

[Big Thanks]

There used to be. I recall there use to be group quests. Dungeons also required others to help and still does.

Group quests were removed because there were no helps available. Personal experience during the start of WoTLK, there were people around. Quite a few infact. Finding someone for group quests were not that difficult. Fast forward 1 years playing on alts. No help were available.

If they decides to put back group related content, they need to address the issue of finding a group for such content.

There is a reason why LFD and LFR exist.

Yes, your problem crossed my mind several times as i was thinking.

Its all nice and dandy in the month of the launch...several months later this design becomes...impossible unless max levels go to the rescue

[Shaetha]

Not true, just off the top of my head:

Dungeons as you said.

FATEs being mostly un-soloable due to level sync.

Aether Currents

Crafters being heavily sought after

Mentor System

The fact that the game marks players as new/lets you know its their first time doing an instance

The fact that stat scaling between expansions is a lot smaller which reduces the amount of old content you can solo quickly.

People doing dungeons aren't "helping others". They're doing it for the rewards.

Aether currents have nothing to do with helping people. All they do is force you to explore the zone.

People doing FATEs aren't "helping others". They're doing it for the rewards.

People crafting aren't "helping others". They're doing it for the rewards.

People mentoring aren't "helping others". They're doing it for the rewards.

People don't care about someone being new. They only care about the rewards.

People aren't running old group content aren't "helping others". They're doing it for the rewards.

If the game has to bribe you to help that's not "creating opportunities to help". The rate of actually helping people to help them is about the same between games per player. The only difference is FFXIV has more bribes to create the illusion of helping people. It also draws attention to it, which is a perception thing.

Also, FATEs and world quests are basically the same thing and most of them are soloable.

[Sharby]

People doing dungeons aren't "helping others". They're doing it for the rewards.

Aether currents have nothing to do with helping people. All they do is force you to explore the zone.

People doing FATEs aren't "helping others". They're doing it for the rewards.

People crafting aren't "helping others". They're doing it for the rewards.

People mentoring aren't "helping others". They're doing it for the rewards.

People don't care about someone being new. They only care about the rewards.

People aren't running old group content aren't "helping others". They're doing it for the rewards.

If the game has to bribe you to help that's not "creating opportunities to help". The rate of actually helping people to help them is about the same between games per player. The only difference is FFXIV has more bribes to create the illusion of helping people. It also draws attention to it, which is a perception thing.

Also, FATEs and world quests are basically the same thing and most of them are soloable.

This makes no sense and the notion that people only help others out if there's a reward is laughably cynical. Regardless if there is personal gain if you're helping someone you're helping someone which is a tangible thing so I have no idea how it can be an illusion. I mean, that's literally like saying school volunteers helping to feed the homeless aren't actually helping because they're only doing it for an academic reward, you think the homeless care why? No they don't because they're being fed. The same applies here. You're trying to frame the game rewarding you for being helpful as a negative which is hella dumb imo, the point is that in FF14 finding help even if its for literally the most minute things is always possible because the game is designed to reward and recognize you for helping out no matter how small your contribution.

And no, it isn't the same as WoW because WoW has almost none of the above, nor does WoW encourage or reward you for helping someone out. Imo if lots of people are helping each other out and the game is encouraging them to do so by rewarding them it doesn't matter why they're doing it because they're setting examples for more and more players around them until it eventually becomes the standard, which in FF14 the community standard IS to help people if you can/want. You can call me anecdotal all you want but I guess I must be the luckiest person alive or extremely charming because almost every single time I've needed help in FF I've had people who were more than willing to help me even when there's literally no reward for them to get.

"They don't care about someone being new." Is blatantly false because if no one helps out a new player and they're playing an important role it makes everyone's lives harder, hell you can't even be a mentor unless you're consistently helping people. I brought up aether currents because if a player doesn't have them another player with flying can ferry them around to help them get it quicker which I've literally done multiple times for people I don't know and haven't talked to since just because I felt like it.

And no, world quests and FATEs are not the same thing either because WQ's don't scale you down whatsoever, most jobs can't solo most of the boss FATEs and they sure as hell cannot solo the big boss FATEs. Which means, surprise surprise you're going to need the help of other people.

Again, I don't necessarily consider this a flaw on WoW's part, they're just different games, but the answer to the OP's answer is quite simply yes when WoW is compared to another MMO like FF.

[Luxeley]

I honestly don't know if it lacks opportunities, most of what players do in WOW is more of a matter of desire than need, more for fun than necessity. There are exceptions, however. One thing I do believe, BLizzard doesn't do enough to incentivize players to get together and/or help each other. That's one of big lures of Classic WOW - there is a lot more forced socialization and integration.

[Izalla]

There are tons of opportunities, but some people would rather ignore or troll that person asking for help in chat, or walk by that person fighting too many mobs.

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there's plenty of opportunities to help eachothers out.
granted a lot of it can be pretty automated like addons calling out rare spawns in general chat but i still think that counts.

and if you're active in a guild i'm sure you'll find people help eachothers out plenty. probably even more so now with this community things that i personally haven't bothered to check out yet.

This right here, I only just joined a new guild on one character and I've answered plenty of questions from new players, and even spent hours in a bunch of old raids with them because they wanted to see people like Illidan and Arthas but weren't high enough to solo the instances themselves yet.

[Tiwack]

I think they can't do anymore than they already have in the opportunity department, the incentive and reward department could still see some changes, as it is gold is everything, either players pay each other or the system pays everyone sufficiently and according to the difficulty/time-spent. It's not great nor are there any easy solutions.

[ro9ue]

The shithouse game design has the possibility to create something beautiful out of the community.
The best games ive ever played had this shithouse game design...and were beautiful...

Gems of the past...lost in time.

I don't know why but whenever I play EverQuest, thats the vibe the community has. It never fails. Had a random person give me a full set of gear for free, and gear is really valuable in EQ since a lot of items don't bind or scale. Then very often you have players than run by and just throw buffs on you. It's such a cool feeling.

[Shaetha]

This makes no sense and the notion that people only help others out if there's a reward is laughably cynical. Regardless if there is personal gain if you're helping someone you're helping someone which is a tangible thing so I have no idea how it can be an illusion. I mean, that's literally like saying school volunteers helping to feed the homeless aren't actually helping because they're only doing it for an academic reward, you think the homeless care why? No they don't because they're being fed. The same applies here. You're trying to frame the game rewarding you for being helpful as a negative which is hella dumb imo, the point is that in FF14 finding help even if its for literally the most minute things is always possible because the game is designed to reward and recognize you for helping out no matter how small your contribution.

And no, it isn't the same as WoW because WoW has almost none of the above, nor does WoW encourage or reward you for helping someone out. Imo if lots of people are helping each other out and the game is encouraging them to do so by rewarding them it doesn't matter why they're doing it because they're setting examples for more and more players around them until it eventually becomes the standard, which in FF14 the community standard IS to help people if you can/want. You can call me anecdotal all you want but I guess I must be the luckiest person alive or extremely charming because almost every single time I've needed help in FF I've had people who were more than willing to help me even when there's literally no reward for them to get.

"They don't care about someone being new." Is blatantly false because if no one helps out a new player and they're playing an important role it makes everyone's lives harder, hell you can't even be a mentor unless you're consistently helping people. I brought up aether currents because if a player doesn't have them another player with flying can ferry them around to help them get it quicker which I've literally done multiple times for people I don't know and haven't talked to since just because I felt like it.

And no, world quests and FATEs are not the same thing either because WQ's don't scale you down whatsoever, most jobs can't solo most of the boss FATEs and they sure as hell cannot solo the big boss FATEs. Which means, surprise surprise you're going to need the help of other people.

Again, I don't necessarily consider this a flaw on WoW's part, they're just different games, but the answer to the OP's answer is quite simply yes when WoW is compared to another MMO like FF.

I mean, you didn't read the point, which was the rate of people that are actually helping is the same. The only difference is perception, and yes, it is cynical to say people only help others to get rewards. How many people actually do leveling roulette for something other than the daily/adventurer in need, for example? Actual altruism is very rare.

And, yes, you can be a mentor if you aren't helping people. You can become a mentor without helping a single person. You can be a mentor without doing a single dungeon that isn't strictly required to get to Corethas Western Highlands, or even no grouped content at all if you buy the boost potion. All you need to do is be able to get to 80(AKA own SHB) and make and gather collectibles, which is why you need to be able to get to CWH.

Also, try to solo the current boss and big boss world quests in WoW and tell me how that works for you.