Do you think Trump betrayed the U.S.?

[Xeones]

No, betraying your country is rare among presidents and it includes things like giving money to foreign governments to delay their nuclear programs so the next president has to clean up their mess.

Is this guy seriously trying to say what has been going on with Iran is "cleaning up a mess"? A rational person could only consider this making a mess.

[tehealadin]

It doesn't matter. He will win the next election. He can do whatever he wants. I honestly believe he could walk down a busy street and shoot a baby in the head and nothing would happen to him. Tens of millions would scream "USA! USA!" and "GO BACK TO COMMUNISM, FAGET!". There aren't enough sane (and dare I suggest brave) people, not just in the electorate but also in the institutions of power to do anything meaningful. So it doesn't matter if his actions in Ukraine can be classed as treason. You are just playing a game of meaningless semantics until there is a possibility of any kind of real sanction if the answer to the question is yes.

[Noxx79]

No, betraying your country is rare among presidents and it includes things like giving money to foreign governments to delay their nuclear programs so the next president has to clean up their mess.

There is no deal with Iran now. Iran can do what they want with regards to the us. We are objectively in a worse state with Iran than we were under Obama.

Also the money was Iran’s. Your debunked conspiracy theories are noted and reported.

[nonameelf]

No, betraying your country is rare among presidents and it includes things like giving money to foreign governments to delay their nuclear programs so the next president has to clean up their mess.

I have seen so many conspiracy theories the last 2 days in here and none of them have been moderated. I've reported all I've seen. Where the fuck are the mods to clean up this shit?

[Skroe]

I have seen so many conspiracy theories the last 2 days in here and none of them have been moderated. I've reported all I've seen. Where the fuck are the mods to clean up this shit?

https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...1#post51649714

Left without further comment. Draw your own conclusions.

[xanzul]

It is reports like this one, the Republicans are going to use to counter the accusations of the Democrats. I still wish the Democrats would just do it , so it can be over with and more important issues could be worked on. I saw a interview last night with a Democrat congressman from New Jersey, who said he was not for a impeachment and the country had more important things they need to be working on. Was refreshing to see a Democrat congressman with some common sense.

Nothing is more important than getting Trump out of office and held accountable for his crimes and yes he absolutely positively has broken the law repeatedly since he took office. As long as he is president nothing is going to be done in this country and certainly no country is going to seriously consider working with us on anything as long as we have a corrupt troll as president.

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That's a good point. They may want to milk the accusations and threats of a impeachment, to harm the economy and have a cloud of dismay hanging over Trump as long as they can.

You understand Trump admitted to doing this right?

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I read the transcript. Already posted that in a earlier post in this thread. I am not convinced. The last poll I saw on the subject, 58% of Americans are opposed to impeachment, with 37% for it. Rest undecided.

Fuck polls. This isn't about polls anymore. Seriously what the fuck is wrong with you? Trump broke the law and admitted it. No polls and whether you are convinced or not has any fucking bearing on ANY of this. I am not even sure you are in the same thread as everyone else.

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Well, you certainly have not. But not getting personal is the best approach. It is also off topic. We each are entitled to our opinions. I respect yours , even if we disagree. I have been wrong before and could be in this case. Time will tell. Not convinced yet however.

This isn't opinion. TRUMP FUCKING SAID HE DID IT.

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I'm not entirely clear (yet) on whether his actions are illegal, but referring to them as a "betrayal of the US" is absurd on its face. Most Americans aren't actually that deeply invested in whether Ukraine investigates Biden's kid or not. Most Americans weren't aware that the United States was spending hundreds of millions of dollars arming Ukrainians and I'd wager a poll of whether that's a good idea would be split on unpredictable lines since the average American has no idea whether we're supposed to like Ukraine or not.

It is 100% clear. Stop defending our criminal president.

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Every job says you're not allowed to accept bribes. Even the baggers at your local grocery store have that somewhere in the papers they sign on hiring.

It is almost as if this is about integrity or something. DO NOT minimize this.

[Skroe]

An artistic reminder of what we're fighting, courtesy of Edel Rodriguez.
Impeach the Motherfucker.

[xanzul]

I have seen so many conspiracy theories the last 2 days in here and none of them have been moderated. I've reported all I've seen. Where the fuck are the mods to clean up this shit?

One of the mods for this forum is a troll and a Trump supporter. That is why.

[Ghostpanther]

I have seen so many conspiracy theories the last 2 days in here and none of them have been moderated. I've reported all I've seen. Where the fuck are the mods to clean up this shit?

Having a different opinion is not a conspiracy theory.

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"I won't release the aid promised you unless you do me a favor."

Your logic is indeed different from Earth logic.

But Trump never said that to the President. Now Biden bragged about doing such.

[nonameelf]

Having a different opinion is not a conspiracy theory.

Blatant lying is not a difference of opinion.

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But Trump never said that to the President. Now Biden bragged about doing such.

There you go again, lying.

[xanzul]

Having a different opinion is not a conspiracy theory.

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But Trump never said that to the President. Now Biden bragged about doing such.

I think you mean difference of reality not difference of opinion. What you are talking about is not opinion. Trump admitted to it and why he did it. Get the fuck over it.

[Skroe]

Blatant lying is not a difference of opinion.

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There you go again, lying.

Your efort is appreciated, but be aware you're talking to people who rationalized and excused the Trump Administration putting kids in concentration camps. They did not even have the integrity or decency to say "Hey you know, I think we have a serious illegal immigration problem, but this is just not the way". No. Until the courts intervened they spent considerable effort trying to make it okay.

Trump is symptomatic. *THEY* are America's moral rot. They have so given themselves over to decadence and depravity that they'll excuse any behavior so long as it saves them face and protects the fuhrer.

Or to put it more plainly, if folks like Ghostpanther are going to spend weeks somehow rationalizing this:



they will excuse absolutely anything.

They are are the thing to be defeated, not reasoned with. They may be Americans by citizenship but they've long since forsook anything resembling American principles. Consistent with the thread topic, Donald Trump did not commit treason as defined by the Constitution. But Trump and his supporters have certainly committed a kind of moral treason against what America stands for and its mission in the world. In that sense they have certainly betrayed us all.

[Bodakane]

It's actually not either, thanks.

So the money that was withheld until the Ukraine said they'd play ball was coincidence and the ball they said they'd play is what, basketball?

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No, betraying your country is rare among presidents and it includes things like giving money to foreign governments to delay their nuclear programs so the next president has to clean up their mess.

You're a crackpot conspiracy theorist. Take your QAnon bullshit somewhere else.

[Poopymonster]

An artistic reminder of what we're fighting, courtesy of Edel Rodriguez.
Impeach the Motherfucker.

Advice columnist Dan Savage has been selling ITMF shirts for a few years now.

[Skroe]

@Rozz, I didn't mean to image spam, but I got a good chuckle at how you relinked them. Well done.

Thanks for taking the time haha.

Edit: I try

[Mormolyce]

No, betraying your country is rare among presidents and it includes things like giving money to foreign governments to delay their nuclear programs so the next president has to clean up their mess.

I have a different question for you: if it were made clear that Trump did betray the US, would you vote against him in the next election?

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Asking for a favor is not extortion. Are you fucking high?

Dude, maybe you should educate yourself on these things before making public statements. Information helps you avoid public humiliation like this.

[Xeones]

I have a different question for you: if it were made clear that Trump did betray the US, would you vote against him in the next election?

I have a question for you. Do you think it is possible for them to believe that? They are never going to agree to it. It's going to be "Anything that is good for Trump is good for us"

[Ghostpanther]

Blatant lying is not a difference of opinion.

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There you go again, lying.

You are starting to take this too personal.

[Orbitus]

You are starting to take this too personal.

Everyone should be taking treason seriously.

[Ghostpanther]

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/pel...chment-inquiry

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi said Saturday that she has "no idea" how long House Democrats' impeachment inquiry into President Trump will take.

How about right up until the election? Or until they get some info which backs up their impeachment push?